T Nation

Why, Dr. King, Why?

“When our research was published in June 1991 in the Journal of American History, the article made clear that King’s plagiarism was a general pattern evident in nearly all of his academic writings. Although the plagiaries in the dissertation were less egregious than the press reports had suggested, they were more extensive throughout King’s papers than had been reported. We found that instances of textual appropriation can be seen in his earliest extant writings as well as his dissertation. The pattern is also noticeable in his speeches and sermons throughout his career.”

http://www.stanford.edu/group/King//additional_resources/articles/palimp.htm

“In his 1989 autobiography, And the Walls Came Tumbling Down, King’s close friend and fellow civil rights leader Ralph Abernathy writes that on the night before he died, King gave a rousing speech, had dinner with a woman afterward and remained with her till 1 AM, then came back to his motel to spend the night with a second woman. In the early morning hours a third woman came looking for King and became angry when she found the bed in the room he shared with Abernathy unoccupied. When King reappeared, he argued with woman #3 and wound up knocking her across the bed.”

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2449/was-martin-luther-king-jr-a-plagiarist

Likes to hit women…Fighting Irish would like that…

"In his 1991 memoir, Breaking Barriers, journalist Carl Rowan writes that in 1964 congressman John Rooney told him that he and his congressional committee had heard J. Edgar Hoover play an audiotape of an apparent orgy held in King’s Washington hotel suite. Over the sounds of a couple having intercourse in the background, according to Rooney, King could be heard saying to a man identified as Abernathy, “Come on over here, you big black motherfucker, and let me suck your dick.”

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2449/was-martin-luther-king-jr-a-plagiarist

Let the truth be told. And now, can we dispense with MLK day? The guy was a hypocritical lying woman-beater.

Whatever he was or wasn’t in his personal life does not change his passion and his work for the civil rights he fought for. That’s why we remember him.

I just don’t see how him getting into a fight with a woman and wanting to be bisexual discredits his work in any way.

You’re saying that we should dismiss, say, our founding fathers philosophies because some of them might have owned slaves.Whether they did or didn’t, has no effect on whether what they’re saying is any more or less true.

So he was only human and had some flaws. So what. It obviously didn’t stop him from being a very effective leader.

If you had any real intelligence you would realize that there is a lesson to be learned from all that.

Today way too much emphasis is given to bullshit that doesn’t affect a persons ability to lead. That is why we have such lousy leadership now.

There are a lot people who are very successful who would never go anywhere in politics just because they don’t have squeaky clean, perfect personal lives.

That is why our leadership is not as good as it was when we didn’t get involved with peoples personal lives.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
So he was only human and had some flaws. So what. It obviously didn’t stop him from being a very effective leader.

If you had any real intelligence you would realize that there is a lesson to be learned from all that.

Today way too much emphasis is given to bullshit that doesn’t affect a persons ability to lead. That is why we have such lousy leadership now.

There are a lot people who are very successful who would never go anywhere in politics just because they don’t have squeaky clean, perfect personal lives.

That is why our leadership is not as good as it was when we didn’t get involved with peoples personal lives. [/quote]

I agree to a certain extent, but there is still a point where it matters to me. Beating on women would be one of those lines for me.

Also preaching in churches while hosting orgies would cross the line in my book.

Is there ANY evidence he did these at the same time?

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Is there ANY evidence he did these at the same time?[/quote]

As in at the same time in his life.

He used the pulpit for speeches throughout his life, if I remember. So, logically if he ever held orgies, they can’t be discriminate times in his life.

Oh… well, so much for that: same time, same place would have been more interesting.

Was he at least at an orgy while plagiarizing? Or how about at his PhD dissertation defense?

Maybe if it was a rather large podium.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
So he was only human and had some flaws. So what. It obviously didn’t stop him from being a very effective leader.

If you had any real intelligence you would realize that there is a lesson to be learned from all that.

Today way too much emphasis is given to bullshit that doesn’t affect a persons ability to lead. That is why we have such lousy leadership now.

There are a lot people who are very successful who would never go anywhere in politics just because they don’t have squeaky clean, perfect personal lives.

That is why our leadership is not as good as it was when we didn’t get involved with peoples personal lives. [/quote]

If someone proposes to tell Americans how rotten we are, he better have a long look in the mirror first. King was just another hypocrite.

Aren’t you the least bit disturbed that someone who happily tells us all about our flaws and puts on such noble airs is a common cheat, woman beater, whore monger, and homosexual pervert?

Woman beating and dick sucking. Two things I try to discourage in others, yet, am able to refrain from myself with relative ease.

Let MLK rest in peace. The good, the bad, the ugly.

I’m not a fan of how this nation seeks, without exception, to destroy it’s heros.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Sifu wrote:
So he was only human and had some flaws. So what. It obviously didn’t stop him from being a very effective leader.

If you had any real intelligence you would realize that there is a lesson to be learned from all that.

Today way too much emphasis is given to bullshit that doesn’t affect a persons ability to lead. That is why we have such lousy leadership now.

There are a lot people who are very successful who would never go anywhere in politics just because they don’t have squeaky clean, perfect personal lives.

That is why our leadership is not as good as it was when we didn’t get involved with peoples personal lives.

If someone proposes to tell Americans how rotten we are, he better have a long look in the mirror first. King was just another hypocrite. [/quote]

The way that blacks were being treated was a national disgrace. Read the 1st amendment sometime, King had every right to criticize and speak about the treatment of his people.

How was King a hypocrite? He didn’t try to prevent people from enjoying their civil rights. He didn’t murder people for trying to stand up for their civil rights.

[quote]
Aren’t you the least bit disturbed that someone who happily tells us all about our flaws and puts on such noble airs is a common cheat, woman beater, whore monger, and homosexual pervert? [/quote]

No I am not disturbed. Because he wasn’t “happily” telling us about our “flaws”. It is more like he and a lot of other people like him were being abused of their civil rights and he spoke out against the injustice. There was nothing “happy” about that.

What was being done to the blacks was a hell of a lot more than “flaws”. Outrage would be a much more accurate description than “flaws”.

So what if he plagiarized. WTF! The civil rights movement wasn’t some fucking high school English exam. Get some perspective. He got his point across and got his people their freedom, that is what is important.

King was nowhere near the kind of whore monger that Benjamin Franklin was. Besides the impression I have is that it is more like King had a flock of groupies after him.

As for as the woman who got smacked I wasn’t there to know what happened. For all I know she might have asked for it. I certainly think you are trying way too hard to moralize over it.

So what if he was bisexual. That is his own personal business.

besides plagiarism, can any of those assertions be substantiated?

other then musings in peoples memoirs and biographies, any actual evidence besides he said she said J Edgar Hoover may have said?

Since ya know, the FBI under Hoover was COMPLETELY honest and staffed by saints.

for a teacher, one would think you would be a bit more skeptical, than to simply read some guys Q&A blog and believe every word.

Does no one else but me feel like we’ve had this EXACT thread before?

Guys, we need to call a psychiatrist, HH is recycling.

On topic:

Doesn’t take away from his accomplishments, though his accomplishments don’t make any of this better if true.

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
besides plagiarism, can any of those assertions be substantiated?

other then musings in peoples memoirs and biographies, any actual evidence besides he said she said J Edgar Hoover may have said?

Since ya know, the FBI under Hoover was COMPLETELY honest and staffed by saints.

for a teacher, one would think you would be a bit more skeptical, than to simply read some guys Q&A blog and believe every word.[/quote]

I’d say that memoirs of the man’s best friend could be accepted as fact.

Then, what WOULD you accept as objective evidence? The FBI has tape of a NOLA congressman (Jefferson) accepting bribes. Should we discount those tapes as faked? They have tapes about McCain and Murtha. Are those faked?

Just about everyone who has power over others is an evil person. That’s how they got where they are/were. Any other point of view is naivete.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Does no one else but me feel like we’ve had this EXACT thread before?

Guys, we need to call a psychiatrist, HH is recycling.

On topic:

Doesn’t take away from his accomplishments, though his accomplishments don’t make any of this better if true.[/quote]

Just my way of celebrating Black History Month.

By the way, I have tremendous respect for ANY person who achieves things in life by their own honest effort. I also condemn ANYONE who attacks those weaker than themselves (such as women). I simply refuse to give Dr. King a ‘pass’ because he’s an icon.

Trust the government…Don’t trust the government…Trust the government…Don’t trust the government…

This thread is stupid, why don’t we just go out and try dig up dirt on anyone who ever made worthwhile lifetime achievements.

I heard Abe Lincoln used to eat one baby every morning for breakfast.

[quote]snipeout wrote:
This thread is stupid, why don’t we just go out and try dig up dirt on anyone who ever made worthwhile lifetime achievements.

I heard Abe Lincoln used to eat one baby every morning for breakfast.[/quote]

He was too busy getting the transcontinental railway system, loaded with goodies for his railroad buddies, up and running to do stuff like that. Besides, that’s Satanic and Abe was simply a collectivist con artist. Best con artist in our political history, for sure. He’d be laughing his ass off at all the adulation we have for him.

That part isn’t so offensive as the fact that for these meals he used his woodsman’s axe as his table knife.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
So he was only human and had some flaws. So what. It obviously didn’t stop him from being a very effective leader. [/quote]

Lol.

Multiculturalism.

insert dancing banana