Why Do You Squat the Way You Do?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
41

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:

I think you are way too kind here. Are you seriously suggesting that the standard PLing approaches or even oly wling before Westside didn’t focus on the posterior chain? Of course they did, but without those fancy machines and gadgets.

I don’t really see that he brought any novel and good thing to the world of raw and single-ply PLing, except perhaps the use of bands/chains. But he certainly did bring in some bad or at least unnecessary ideas (contribute to developments).

In summary, if I wanted to get into multiply lifting I would follow many of the ideas of Louie. If you want to do raw or single-ply lifting, I would look at the top IPF guys.

Sorry for derailing this thread.[/quote]

No, of course they did before him. But I wasn’t speaking simply of PLing or Oly, Louie was one of the big voices that finally started to hit the vast pool of fitness, athletic, and other styles of trainees that DIDN’T pay attention to this. Both PLing and Oly are numbers driven on specific lifts, and that lends a much more analytic process to those specific lifts. However when you’re talking about everyone else goals become more amorphous, and not only that but bad habits increase 10-100 fold. Louie was finally able to start to penetrate that vast field with a focus on the p-chain and training muscles you couldn’t see in the mirror.

Also, with respect, I’d say that single ply gear is still equipped and as such can benefit from Louie under your own current perspective. Louie was also one of the people who popularized a differing periodization scheme (conjugate) from the linear style. In this regard even people who don’t use any of Louie’s ideas on box squatting or what you believe to be unnecessary or bad ideas still owe him a lot–because without him a large chunk of literature on periodization that has undoubtedly improved both wide ranging athletic planning as well as PLing numbers goes either completely unheard of because nobody publicizes them, or they just aren’t written about. His contributions in the area of periodization, regardless of the utility of certain crazy things he’s said, should ensure his value to the lifting world IMO.

Yes, sorry for the hijack. Ending that now.

42

[quote]N.K. wrote:
Spock:

I’m not sure about why there is so much preaching against quad dominance. My best guess is just that the people who that is directed towards (and the vast majority of athletes) are so quad dominant that they are out of balance. By learning how to sit back and engage their hips, they are tapping into some very powerful muscles that they previously were not making much use of, and bringing their bodies into balance by learning how to use their hips and quads together.

The thing is, a guy like me who is completely untrained comes along, and I’m reading all this “sit back, learn how to use your glutes and hams” information. Only my quads aren’t strong at all, so I build up the OPPOSITE imbalance. Strong ass posterior chain and weak quads. So now, I have to FORCE myself to feel like I am squatting in a “quad dominant” way, when in reality all I am doing is working to balance out my quads with my posterior chain. Overall, my goal is to sit straight down, but with my feet wide enough so I get a lot of hip drive, AND i’m able to load my quads and use them as well. Balance is key.

Also, there is the whole aspect that powerlifting is a sport, and the squat that moves the most weight is the squat that wins competitions. I think that is a big part of the reason for the SUPER wide, sit way back squat. It works best for geared lifters, and even a lot of raw lifters. It reduces the distance the weight has to be moved, and if you can get really strong with that sort of squat you are goign to kick ass at powerlifting, which is why I think it is preached so often.

However, like I said in my earlier post, while I absolutely want to be the best powerlifter/squatted that I can be, I also want to be as healthy and athletic as possible, and I felt that the “sit way back wide squat just to paralell” was taking away from my flexibility and overall athleticism. I know that, with a more moderate stance, deeper squat that is a medium between an olympic squat and a powerlifting squat, I can still get insanely strong, and I just think it is a better option for me. In the end, like everything to do with squatting, it comes down to personal preference. There are a lot of great ways to become big, strong, and awesome at squatting. [/quote]

I like your posts. You seem very smart and stuff. I will add you to my list of people I wish I knew in real life.

43

Kyle, you should compete in Raw Unity. Your numbers are pretty legit and it has a sick line up this year. Just gotta get off the knee wraps and youre good to go

44

[quote]N.K. wrote:
Spock:

Basically, I’m working on using my quads more by pushing my hips forward and keeping my chest up, while keeping my heels planted. Since I used to cue myself to “sit back” so often, that movement pattern is INGRAINED in me, so i literally have to think “sit forward” in order to make myself go straight down. Also, the “sit back” cue for me often turned into “kick the hips back and let the chest drop” right off the bat, so I am also working on starting the down portion of the squat without moving my chest whatsoever. It’s tough, and towards the ends of my sets/on really heavy reps, I still always kick my hips up and let my chest drop. But now at least I can feel it happening, and can work to fight it, so that is a step in the right direction. Another thing that helped me a lot was watching some awesome olympic lifting squats. Watch this video of spencer moorman, for example. In his squat he practically sits his hamstrings onto his calves, that’s how forward his hips are and how much he is loading his quads. Obviously, I look nothing like that when I squat, but IMAGINING myself moving the way he moves helps me to do a better, more upright squat.

Also: the calf pain I think is normal. I have talked to quite a few oly lifters and the consensus is that hit hurts like a BITCH for a couple weeks to a couple months, and then just goes away. And, when I switched just a few months ago I can say firsthand that my calves killed me for about three months, and nowadays they only hurt once in a blue moon. So I would suggest sticking with the oly shoes for at least a few months, cause they really are the best for a high bar squat. If it doesn’t seem to get better, then switch it up if you need to, but I would put in at least 3 months if you can take it. [/quote]

That’s one of the craziest looking squat styles I’ve ever seen. He’s putting up some good weight but that hip thrust just looks so strange.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I place the bar somewhere between high and low. Going too low puts way too much stress on my right shoulder but going too high causes my chest to cave. Foot placement is just outside shoulder width for singles-triples and just inside for rep work. I used to squat much wider than I do now but have slowly narrowed my stance over time. I find that the placement I use now allows me to hit a good depth, keep my knees pushed out and really drive out of the hole on heavy sets.

45

What tends to happen is people will squat in a way that utilizes their strengths and leverages the best. The problem is people get so pissy about the “right way to do it” they can’t see that.

Every individual should find the stance that feels the most natural to them, get as strong as possible, then establish where they are weak in that stance and work the weak points. It’s a very simple concept, and it’s why you see elite squatters like Stan Efferding and Eric Lilliebridge using completely conflicting styles with great success.

Look at Pete Rubish. Dude’s squat looks atrocious, but he’s found a way to squat deep as hell while still using his greatest asset, his back strength. It may look ugly, but it’s allowing him to move the most weight.

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[quote]Achilles of war wrote:
Kyle, you should compete in Raw Unity. Your numbers are pretty legit and it has a sick line up this year. Just gotta get off the knee wraps and youre good to go[/quote]

Eric invited me, but I can’t afford to go even if I wanted to. I’m hoping that might change next year, but it’s hard to predict.

As far as the knee wraps go, I’ve just started running an unwrapped cycle of the Smolov base cycle, and I think it’s going to help me develop a lot as a squatter. I made great progress on my wrapped squat by focusing on it but I’ve built a strength curve that is so conducive to wrapped squatting that I’m starting to fall apart in the hole.

So yeah, I’m working very hard on this one. If my financial situation allows me to do it, keep an eye out for me at RUM 7.

47

What do you think is a pretty looking squat?

My squat is a wide stance (around what I use for sumo deadlifts) with a low bar placement and is mostly just hamstring/hip, I can still go below parallel relatively easy, and I am not weak out of the hole. Squatting high bar and a narrower stances like some of you guys do makes me good morning it back up when I hit my sticking point.

48

[quote]HeavyTriple wrote:

Look at Pete Rubish. Dude’s squat looks atrocious, but he’s found a way to squat deep as hell while still using his greatest asset, his back strength. It may look ugly, but it’s allowing him to move the most weight.[/quote]

Holy hell! I think I’d shit my spine if I tried to do that! But obviously it’s working for him.

49

[quote]KyleKeough wrote:

[quote]Achilles of war wrote:
Kyle, you should compete in Raw Unity. Your numbers are pretty legit and it has a sick line up this year. Just gotta get off the knee wraps and youre good to go[/quote]

Eric invited me, but I can’t afford to go even if I wanted to. I’m hoping that might change next year, but it’s hard to predict.

As far as the knee wraps go, I’ve just started running an unwrapped cycle of the Smolov base cycle, and I think it’s going to help me develop a lot as a squatter. I made great progress on my wrapped squat by focusing on it but I’ve built a strength curve that is so conducive to wrapped squatting that I’m starting to fall apart in the hole.

So yeah, I’m working very hard on this one. If my financial situation allows me to do it, keep an eye out for me at RUM 7.[/quote]

How does your raw squat compare to your wrapped squat?

I guess I should chime in about how I squat. I squat low bar with a fairly narrow stance, heels at about shoulder width, toes pointing out. I focus on first sitting slightly back and then straight down forcing my knees out hard and rebounding out of the hole. My main squatting ques are tight back and knees out.

50

Between high and low bar for me, with Oly shoes, relatively narrow width feet. I find that going at all wide or not having the heel elevation causes some unpleasant hip impingement. Would like to fix it but no amount of stretching seems to help.

51

you know. I feel better when I sink lower and keep my butt under me rather than sticking out in back. I never feel any pain. I also use a slightly narrower stance. Sticking my butt out makes my back hurt more…

52

[quote]clutz15 wrote:

[quote]KyleKeough wrote:

[quote]Achilles of war wrote:
Kyle, you should compete in Raw Unity. Your numbers are pretty legit and it has a sick line up this year. Just gotta get off the knee wraps and youre good to go[/quote]

Eric invited me, but I can’t afford to go even if I wanted to. I’m hoping that might change next year, but it’s hard to predict.

As far as the knee wraps go, I’ve just started running an unwrapped cycle of the Smolov base cycle, and I think it’s going to help me develop a lot as a squatter. I made great progress on my wrapped squat by focusing on it but I’ve built a strength curve that is so conducive to wrapped squatting that I’m starting to fall apart in the hole.

So yeah, I’m working very hard on this one. If my financial situation allows me to do it, keep an eye out for me at RUM 7.[/quote]

How does your raw squat compare to your wrapped squat?

I guess I should chime in about how I squat. I squat low bar with a fairly narrow stance, heels at about shoulder width, toes pointing out. I focus on first sitting slightly back and then straight down forcing my knees out hard and rebounding out of the hole. My main squatting ques are tight back and knees out.

[/quote]

It’s been so long since I’ve tested my unwrapped squat that I don’t even know, but I feel like I get a lot out of my knee wraps just by squatting so narrow. I’ll have an idea of how big the gap is in a few weeks.