Why Do We Even Work?

[quote]StevenF wrote:
what the fuck is being taught in school these days.[/quote]
Apparently not how dates work. That quote is from 1981, not “these days.”

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
what the fuck is being taught in school these days.[/quote]
Apparently not how dates work. That quote is from 1981, not “these days.” [/quote]

[quote]zecarlo wrote:
Before any one forms an opinion on that quote he needs to recognize that “not earning a living” does not mean “not working.” Proceed with that in mind. [/quote]

does “not earning a living” mean living off the government teet?

If it that is not an option I agree. I “earn a living” by renting houses, and I really do not have to work to get that money every month.

I’m with zecarlo on this. I would recommend anyone to read his book GRUNCH of Giants before filming an opinion on this without the full context. Not sure why I didnt think to put that in the reading list post originally.

I will not debate anyone’s opinion on Fuller or his views unless they have. He’s a good guy, and this is coming from a conservative.

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
what the fuck is being taught in school these days.[/quote]
Apparently not how dates work. That quote is from 1981, not “these days.” [/quote]

March 30, 1970. Page 30, first column, 3rd paragraph.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I know guy that claims to be a MENSA he has no job , he lives off of his wife , has poor hygiene . I say my pubic hair is kept better than his unkempt beard. I can not buy the guy is smart [/quote]

There is this misconception that Mensa members are super-geniuses. To be a member you only need to score in the top 2% on some form of IQ-like test. You need to look at scores in the top .1% on those tests to get to the people with really good hygiene.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I know guy that claims to be a MENSA he has no job , he lives off of his wife , has poor hygiene . I say my pubic hair is kept better than his unkempt beard. I can not buy the guy is smart [/quote]

He could be. Underutilized it doesn’t matter what a persons IQ is. A Bugatti Veyron goes the same speed as a Yugo when they’re both collecting dust in a garage.

[/quote]

IQ means shit.

It can be like an overpowered car that has no breaks, threathens to flip over at every corner and has a gas mileage like a tank.

It is not about horsepower, it is about how much horsepower you can put somewhat safely on the road.

Is he arguing for a unconditional basic-income for all?

[quote]florelius wrote:
Is he arguing for a unconditional basic-income for all?[/quote]

Contemporary garbage from the 70’s.

The origin and context of the statement is in the link I provided above, along with a bunch of other silly junk, like skyscrapers with wings.

From an architect. Or maybe he is also a humorist.

It seems to me he’s making the same basic observation Vonnegut made in Player Piano, just drawing different conclusions about the end game.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I know guy that claims to be a MENSA he has no job , he lives off of his wife , has poor hygiene . I say my pubic hair is kept better than his unkempt beard. I can not buy the guy is smart [/quote]

He could be. Underutilized it doesn’t matter what a persons IQ is. A Bugatti Veyron goes the same speed as a Yugo when they’re both collecting dust in a garage.

[/quote]

IQ means shit.

It can be like an overpowered car that has no breaks, threathens to flip over at every corner and has a gas mileage like a tank.

It is not about horsepower, it is about how much horsepower you can put somewhat safely on the road. [/quote]

I agree with those analogies. Ted Kaczynski was pretty smart too.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I know guy that claims to be a MENSA he has no job , he lives off of his wife , has poor hygiene . I say my pubic hair is kept better than his unkempt beard. I can not buy the guy is smart [/quote]

?[/quote]

??

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I know guy that claims to be a MENSA he has no job , he lives off of his wife , has poor hygiene . I say my pubic hair is kept better than his unkempt beard. I can not buy the guy is smart [/quote]

He could be. Underutilized it doesn’t matter what a persons IQ is. A Bugatti Veyron goes the same speed as a Yugo when they’re both collecting dust in a garage.

[/quote]

IQ means shit.

It can be like an overpowered car that has no breaks, threathens to flip over at every corner and has a gas mileage like a tank.

It is not about horsepower, it is about how much horsepower you can put somewhat safely on the road. [/quote]

I agree with those analogies. Ted Kaczynski was pretty smart too.
[/quote]

I personally have to feel that if you are a member of mensa and are nonfunctional then we need new standards for intelligence . Kaczynski was highly functional , he was a college professor and a world renowned bomb maker :slight_smile:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Sounds like your typical philosophical BS. No insult intended ZJStrope.[/quote]

Think bout what a bureaucracy is. In doing these jobs, are we doing shit that NEEDS to get done? Or are we doing a bunch of bullshit for the sake of working?

Remember your S-1 shop in the military, or ‘fuck fuck games’? What the fuck did they do all day? I busted my ass for 14 hours a day, had meals brought to me while they got two hour lunches, taken out by their O’s for meals at times, went home early and got promoted faster than I did to boot.

They went to school to push paper for a month, I went to a year plus long school and learned theory of flight, theory of operation, how to be an aviation mechanic, how to in flight troubleshoot, Quality Assurance, how to lead a target with an m2, sere school, swim school, all that.

Not everyone works Devil, they call it that, but that’s just an example. Not everyone earns what they get, not everyone gets what they earn. At some point it seems like all the do nothings are getting well compensated, and the do all’s are undercompensated, the system is broken.

It’s already present within the military, but the other thing is we see how communal living might work using the Military as an example, at least outside of the S. Shops and the way promotions work. I’ve seen worthless human beings get promotions for looking good in uniform and regurgitating Marine Corps lore, couldn’t do their jobs for shit.

On the other hand, when things work well in the Military it’s because it acts as a cooperative. When I think back, the capitalistic aspects were the things that bugged me most about the military, the collectivism rocked, and worked.

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Think bout what a bureaucracy is. In doing these jobs, are we doing shit that NEEDS to get done? Or are we doing a bunch of bullshit for the sake of working?
[/quote]

Agree, some jobs are bureaucratic waste. The quote in the OP implied all jobs though.

Sounds like a command issue. My S shops were fine.

You probably got a lot more out of your training and services too. Those same paper pushers probably work at McDonalds now.

I’ve never been one to concern myself with what others get whether they deserve it or not. It sounds like you got a shit ton of great training that hopefully has propelled you to a solid career in or outside of the the Corps.

Oh I love, It’s been years since I’ve been Devil Dogged!

[quote]

they call it that, but that’s just an example. Not everyone earns what they get, not everyone gets what they earn. [/quote]

Again agree, but again the quote implied all jobs.

My perspective isn’t quite this jaded. I agree it does happen, but the reverse also happens.

And I’ve seen worthless Marines get promoted simply because they re-enlisted. Yes shitty things happen that boggle the mind. One of the contributing factors to my time in the Corps. ending was a female SSgt select, who I liked personally, couldn’t do a fucking thing related to our job (she had even gotten out a few years prior, but was allowed to return as a Sgt). She was being promoted because she is a woman, plain and simple. Other Sgt’s, worth thier salt were being passed up for no other reason than politics.

Point is, it happens and I’m not about to let it change what I’m doing.

[quote]
On the other hand, when things work well in the Military it’s because it acts as a cooperative. When I think back, the capitalistic aspects were the things that bugged me most about the military, the collectivism rocked, and worked. [/quote]

The military is a good example of the collective working, that I agree with.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Think bout what a bureaucracy is. In doing these jobs, are we doing shit that NEEDS to get done? Or are we doing a bunch of bullshit for the sake of working?
[/quote]

Agree, some jobs are bureaucratic waste. The quote in the OP implied all jobs though.[/quote]

It actually doesn’t apply to all jobs. It simply says why do we have jobs to just have jobs. This implies those types of worthless jobs to which add no intrinsic value unless made artificially necessary.

Again, we can’t think of this in today’s standards. A job doesn’t mean going to McDonalds and flipping burgers.

The military example is fairly good, although I’d argue the military is overly bureaucratic from my personal experience. A better example historically would be a Native American tribe.

To enrich corporation CEOs and shareholders.

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:
Think bout what a bureaucracy is. In doing these jobs, are we doing shit that NEEDS to get done? Or are we doing a bunch of bullshit for the sake of working?
[/quote]

Agree, some jobs are bureaucratic waste. The quote in the OP implied all jobs though.[/quote]

It actually doesn’t apply to all jobs. It simply says why do we have jobs to just have jobs. This implies those types of worthless jobs to which add no intrinsic value unless made artificially necessary.

Again, we can’t think of this in today’s standards. A job doesn’t mean going to McDonalds and flipping burgers.

The military example is fairly good, although I’d argue the military is overly bureaucratic from my personal experience. A better example historically would be a Native American tribe.[/quote]

Okay, let me clarify. I took the first line:

“We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living.”

Coupled with the rest of the quote to mean all jobs. Somebody has to earn a living or the technological breathrough by the 1/10,000 will be worthless. Who will buy it? How can everyone just “go to school and think”?

Like one of my other posts talks about, these break throughs have to be manufactured. Someone has to do that or said technology won’t exist beyond a prototype or a very small supply. Business is complex. Sometimes overly complex. Sometimes not.

The quote may not apply to all jobs. As others have said it seems the quote is out of context. I don’t know anything about the author.

Agree with a tribal example.

It has nothing to do with jobs or working.

You have people who are bright, intelligent and creative. When they go to college they are thinking about earning a living, having a career, etc., and proceed accordingly. Instead, they shouldn’t have to worry about earning a living but rather they should focus on keeping an open mind and learning as much as they can about as many things as they can. He is talking about the innovators, inventors and visionaries. Obviously some, or many, will have to “earn a living” but in order for us to bring out the potential of those who are capable of creating innovations we need to remove the shackles of having to think about earning a living before they even have had a chance to realize that potential.