Umm..that doesn't even merit an answer. Of course its not limited to fighting..re-read the part of my post you didn't quote.
Besides I was specifically talking about adrenaline's effects on fighting...as related to topic of the thread. You're fishing for an argument that would be ridiculous for anyone to make...but I'm sure you just misunderstood my posts.
Like a good friend of mine says, testosterone is like wearing a pair of glasses that makes you see things with only three questions...."Can I kill this?" "Can I fuck this?" And sometimes, if both apply, "Which order should I do it in?"
The average person has no finesse or skill. Watch countless fights on YouTube (not matches, but fights between normal people) and you'll see it's nothing like the movies - there is no technique, just basic wild swinging and grappling.
I once read this quote that someone wrote, who said they never understood these 'martial arts' because the human animal is not designed to use 'moves' or 'techniques', but to use adrenaline and strength to flail away and batter an opponent into submission. It went something like that, anyway. That quote haunts me because it seems true in many cases, seeing how people fight.
However, I believe that training, techniques, conditioning and skill, DO work to give a person a huge advantage over the average joe.
I don't want to sound like I'm mr. top shelf fighter badass... but I can handle myself quite a bit better than most guys and I'm an above average athlete... but this goes for most of you who have trained more than a few years....
Outside of getting the jump on me. There's little to nothing an untrained guy (somewhere within my size) can do to prevent me from whooping his ass... and I mean beating them to death if I choose to.
Lets just consider hand to hand combat and leave out weapons (for now) because thats another ball game...
Think about being a blue belt or so, and a new guy comes into your bjj school and rolls with you... easy as FUCK to tool him isn't it?
Extrapolate that further... outside of getting the jump on you and given the chance to match their aggression anyone with some training can DESTROY the average guy.
The reason a person who's seen actual combat (i mean war type combat) has a 'jump' on someone normally is because they go from 0-kill not 0-ass kicking. Very different response. If a more trained person were given that opportunity they'd still have a higher success rate.
There's a fairly popular fight with a guy who gets confronted by two guys while he's with his girlfriend. He simply throws STRAIGHT PUNCHES and destroy's these guys. There's another where a guy handles about 6 guys doing the same thing... If you watch one of the kimbo fights an mma fighter (think he trains at ATT now) goes against a guy like with ~40lbs on him and does way better than you'd expect considering various factors ("chill dog" rule, restarts, only boxing, etc)
When god was giving out "weapons" the lion took the claws, teeth, speed, and power... the shark took some badass senses and huge ass chompers... Man was last in line and picked up the big mushy thing that goes in his head... he figured he got the raw deal.
couple million years later we run this motherfucker.
Man was designed to use his brain to take advantage of the weakness of the human structure. Exploit the weaknesses of the joints, the blood & air flow to the brain, and to use that same body to create massive amounts of concussive force... That's what happens when you learn to fight RIGHT.
Let your opponent fight like an idiot... animals do have technique. National geoographic shows lions teaching hunting techniques to their young all the time... They have the natural instincts and tools to do this shit.
So do we...and we have to learn just as they do.
Sure I'll fight like an animal... a fucking trained lethal ass lion with an infinite combination of tools to utilize and a body that is capable of going further than your comprehension of speed, power, and endurance.
The thing that wins a fight, I believe, is tapping into this pure animal rage, combined with a COMMITMENT to take your target down without fear of damaging him, PLUS the ability to keep your head; to control and use that rage without losing technique. It's when you attack like a hungry panther on Benzedrine, with a combination of speed and power, that you do not lose the fight. Every part of your body becomes a weapon; every attack winds you up for another attack. You move and flex from every angle, using every limb in combinations of coordinated, fast and explosive strikes.
Not everyone can tap into that or control it, but the ones who do are the deadliest fighters. You have to forget all the rules of combat sports in a street situation and do whatever it takes to neutralize the threat and survive.
Myself and several friends are all licensed for concealed carry. We get together to go shooting, weekend handgunning courses, etc... All stuff that goes along with choosing to carry a fire arm full time. We discuss how to spot, how to avoid, and right-to-fire situations. And eventually we come to the "What if I can't draw" or "don't have a gun" situations. I'm the only one active in training and competing in martial arts.
So we mix it up a bit. Some of these scraps can be pretty dirty, ball grabs, eye/face gouging, etc... I've learned once I get in close and alleviate the punching and kicking aspects, I've got all the time in the world. These guys are slow compared to what I'm used to. I've learned I can handle someone clawing at my face until I get a good side control. Once I have side control, that hand in my face is defenseless. Figure-Four Lock. Arm-bar. You name it, its ripe for the plucking. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
I've also learned I need to start wearing a cup when I visit my friends.
The adrenaline rush you get in a fight makes you feel like you can walk through a brick wall. If you've experienced that feeling before and never had your ass kicked then you probably think you can beat anyone's ass by just "going crazy." The fact that you can't is a lesson that always has to be learned the hard way.
This is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. Well done!
Virtual rep to you!
That said... As an Army Infantry combat vet, in my opinion, yes, the willingness to lay waste is a big factor to winning a "fight". But the key that unlocks all of it is situational awareness. This is the kind of thing that cannot really be taught, it needs to either be innate, or optimized through experience. This is why the US military is so successful, and full of highly efficient "killers". The training hones the body's nervous system response for the worst that may come.
Watch the video's... In fact, go to LiveLeak and look up user USMC_Translator (I think thats right...). Look at how cool the guys are under fire. Thats training and honing that killer instinct that most males have. Then if you're so inclined, look at how some of our enemies fight. You'll see spray, pray and haul ass. The guys are cool under fire, but when it comes time to do some hand of god damage, it's like flipping a light switch.
That is all nervous conditioning. When a guy is tweaked on adrenaline and his nerves aren't primed, he's going to look like a spastic colon set loose after a laxative when he fights. The guy that knows how to manage his nervous response, and has an instinctively optimized ability to respond, is going to win the fight. Unless....
The spastic colon fighter has the drop, and a higher sense of situational awareness.
When I owned my MMA schools, the military guys and cops were always the easiest to teach. Their nervous conditioning was more easily controlled, so they tended to use what they were taught, as opposed to a lot of guys that can drill with perfect technique but resemble runny crap when the fight starts.
So! One of the reasons that I became so disenchanted with MMA and the martial arts as a whole is that there is a very pervasive attitude like the thread starter commented on. It has served to dilute martial arts training as a whole, because so many guys think that they're so much better than they really are. And in this day and age, they're conditioned to think that they're special (thank you self esteem based education...). So when they get torn up, they quit and have a bad attitude. OR, they get a little technique, an Affliction shirt, and now they're a bad ass. Its tired.
But hell... I'd rather have a society of alpha males with fighting spirit than a society of beta males that'll hit you with a piece of stemware that contained chardonnay when you turn your back.
well i started looking through liveleak looking for USMC_translator but didnt find it. On a side note I did find this video which relates PERFECTLY.
I was in the Marines for a short time and most of my friends are in the corps, and every single marine is a cockstrong cocky idiot who thinks he can fight because of MCMAP. Heres some marines boxing, and well, its pretty pathetic.
Sorry, here is the link to the guys page. I was obviously not remembering his username correctly...
I totally hear you regarding the MCMAP! I've gone and taught combatives to a couple units, and what I saw wasn't pretty! But the fighting spirit, and situational awareness capable of focusing the intent is absolutely there.
Your entire post was genius. I'll just speak to this point since I have some experience.
I used to get into a lot of fights. I was also a trained boxer. There is not shit anyone can do. I would drop guys 50+ pounds bigger than me. People think they'll just rush in. But a good boxer will just pick you apart.
(Which is why I hate the BJJ blue belts who think they can beat boxers. Um.... You gotta get the takedown first, and most BJJ guys have shit takedowns.)
Somehow who has had a year of striking and grappling would just fucking almost anyone they encountered on the street.
Guys who compete and thus have their adrenaline in check (I puked/dry heaved myself half to death before and after my first grappling match) would so make a mockery of war vets and just about anyone else.
People who don't train seriously literally have no comprehension of basic shit:
I will fucking leg kick you with my steel shins. One leg kick is going to most likely break your femur. If you're lucky, it will just drop you and make you look like a fool. (In fact, if I got into a fight, I would just use a leg kick due to legal considerations).
If you try to take my down, I will sprawl so hard into you that your face will be on the concrete - that's if I don't decide to knee you in the face instead.
If you somehow take me down, I'll be up and while you're still scrambling, I'll chute box stomp kick your face. Or I'll take mount and spit on your face/make you look like the biggest fool in front of all of your friends.
If I decide to punch you, it will be with technique and power. You will get dropped with one or two punches.
And I say this as someone who is not even an elite fighter. What an elite fighter (pro boxer, UFC guy) would do to the average street killer is horrible to even think about. It would be by grace that the attacker would even survive.
These are things that non-trained guys do not understand. Basic things like, "I already know, before we fight, what I will do. I have hard shins. I get punched hard 3 times a week, so my body is ready. I have dozens of Plan Bs. You are running on aggression and emotion. I am running on technique and precision. It won't even be close."
In a sense, it's impossible to have these discussions with anyone who does not actually train. If you train, you "get it," and don't need to be told. If you don't train, you don't get it and never will.
There is a difference between going crazy in an uncontrolled, weak, emotional way, and going crazy in a way of pure primal rage that it takes 5-6 cops to hold you down. I've seen it before.
Usually meth freaks can tap into it, because the drug in their system activates all their physical and mental energies. The average person cannot, unless something major happens. However, there are some who can control it the way a dog does, and turn it on at the drop of a hat.
The average untrained person who 'goes crazy' is basically just a brawler - but even brawlers can do damage. It depends how strong you are and how well you can take a hit.