Why do nice guys always finish last?

Damn, Brock i feel ya. You know you will do better than that.

I’m so sorry you have to go through this, Brock. I’m sure you’ll nab someone great whenever you’re ready to. Some of you guys might want to check out www.succeedwithwomen.com, it’s a great resource for those that want to put in the effort. I’m only 21, but man, I’ve already learned that I don’t want to deal with all the bullshit and the petty crap that goes along with dating. I’m all about the celibacy. The worst thing is being in college, and yet meeting very, very few really interesting and intelligent people (the few I’ve met are just whacko). I know a lot of you will think of this as defeatist, but I really do believe that sometimes it’s better just to bow out of the game. Now, if something great falls into your lap, fine. But a lot of us don’t have the energy to deal with all the bullshit. The amazing thing is, you can read the posts by women on this board, and for the most part (as much as the guys) they’re intelligent, rational, and sensible. But women in the wild just don’t seem to be that way. Good luck!

I wanted to make one more point. I have had quite a few people say to me that when I get older, women will appreciate me more. They’ll want to ‘settle down.’ My thoughts: fuck them. Basically, these sluts want to be able to go out and ‘sow their wild oats,’ have all the passion they think they can get, etc. Then, when they want the minivan, they come to me. I think not. I’m stable, loving, and will make a decent living. Therefore, my purpose is to finance your diseased ass after you’ve finished with the football team? “Let’s go, honey. Is that another cumstain on your shirt?” Whatever. Sorry, just a little bitter.

Pity-party threads like this one pop up every so often. There is nothing wrong with being a nice guy. However, being nice doesn’t automatically make you interesting. It doesn’t automatically make you deserving of love. It doesn’t show anything about who you really are as a person. It just shows that when you want some nookie, you can be a nice guy. It seems that most of the people who write these threads have confused weakness with niceness. Nobody wants to be with someone who has no backbone. No one wants to be with a person who is so into “being nice” that they cease to be their own person. These threads are always include the obligatory list of nice things the writer has done for this girl. So what. You prove you are willing to be walked on. Great.
I mean absolutely no offense to Brock. I have so much respect for the man (based solely upon some of the things he has written on this forum). But, Brock, you married a woman who was 9 years younger than you. There is a whole lot of growing up left to do between 22 and 31. Also, you married a woman who was in debt and couldn’t afford both heat and food. How could she have been someone that you looked at and thought, “She is the one for me.” Did you really find her inability to manage her own life that attractive? Did you really think she was someone you would want to have kids with? I know people are going to respond by calling me an asshole for kicking you when your down, but that is not my intention at all. I just want to point out that it seems that you swooped into this woman’s life thinking you could be her hero. YOU could buy her food. YOU could buy her a house. YOU could give anything she desired. Then she’d just have to love you, right? Wrong. She’s immature and irresponsible when you met her. After two years of marriage she’s still irresponsible and immature. Now she just has better toys. Whenever you do get around to dating again someday, don’t go looking for someone you can fix. Don’t go trying to be some woman’s knight in shining armour. Look for someone who is already everything you want the mother of your children to be. Look for someone who doesn’t need you, but who wants you. Fight the bitterness that is going to consume you. Learn from the experience. Good luck.

What a horrible woman. I am very sorry. I hope you can find happiness with someone who you love and who loves you just as much. That would be the greatest revenge.

Been there. Hurt like hell. You’re absolutely right about Karma. It’s a cliche, but in time, this will pass. Have faith.

Go download Dont Save Her by Project Pat.

Some good points here. Doogie well put. However you will never find perfect… If one that doesn’t have any flaws comes along … be afraid, correction very afraid cause they are not real. Seriously, I found the perfect wife. Married her and all went well for a couple months then as the skin was shed I realized what a mess I had. Damn man you did marry a young one… That is never a good idea. I know that from personal experience as well I was young too not that that matters. Anywho, do all you can not to lump all females in the evil bitch bucket. It is easy to do… Just be aware… Take some time offf… Very important to the healing process… I didn’t and payed later… It is true you can be a nice guy that doesn’t mean sucker…

She’s a bitch…Tell her to fuck her self and never call you speak to you or even acknoledge you exist, first. Next you don’t have to be an asshole, just don’t go out of your way to please them, just do what you do. If she doesn’t like it lose her. I love it when I here somebody say they quit smoking pot, drinking beer , or what ever is a typical mainstay inthier lifestyle for a chick. It usually ends in 6 months or less. Do what you like, find a woman who will put up with it.

Brock, my condolences....like most of us with any age on us, I have been there. Her name doesn't start with an 'R' does it? It sounds chillingly, familiar.....

A lot of good points have been brought up in this thread…but I think one still needs to be mentioned. If you want a meaningful relationship with a girl then you have to be yourself. If that means you are nice (which it should) then if she doesn’t appreciate it, it is entirely her own fault. Who wouldn’t want to be treated with respect and gratitude? If you want some ass, then be a little prick if you can stomach it and if you don’t care about the girl. As mentioned above…it will produce results. However, you’ll get a girl this way, but don’t think about developing a relationship with a girl that falls for your faulty asshole persona. Just have fun and then look for a girl that appreciates you for who you really are to settle down with and develop a serious relationship. Don’t feel sorry for yourself for being nice, feel proud. Somebody will eventually come along I promise that. I have a theory that you shouldn’t even think about marrying a girl until she gets to be in her late twenties. Then she will have done a lot of things on her own, and as mentioned above will want a husband and not just need one. I feel for you Brock, but that girl sounded about as stable as a china cabinet in an earthquake. Stay away from the WT bud, and good luck in the future. Things will work out. Keep your head up and focus on making yourself better from this experience.

I don’t think real “nice guys” finish last. However the problem I have sits in the term “nice guy”. The typical nice guy is not only nice but also passive and boring. He tends to puts his girlfriend/wife before himself. He tends not to take action but to respond to her needs. He’s always available, helpful and always ready to serve. He never rips her clothes off and tries to do her in the car on the way to work or school.
O.k. this is exaggerated but it contains some truth. And if this applies to you, only you can tell. Being a nice guy does not mean to put her (or him btw) before yourself, or even give up your own life (gratitude/sacrifice is not a basis for a relationship). It means to respect her, love her, and care for her, take part in her life, but also pursue your own life and dreams and let her take part in them as well (that makes anyone feel special and you interesting at the same time). Be active, be daring, be pleasant. Actually “assholes” usually do all the right moves to get the girls, it’s the way the treat them that makes them assholes.

Good points around. Nephorm you said it: No way should you wait for “someone who will appreciate you when they’re older”. I wholeheartedly agree that that is just bullshit that means they’ll appreciate you when their biological clock is ticking and about to run out. To those that find yourself in a nice-guy position: Go out of your way to make certain that you are NOT being taken for granted. Don’t establish a pattern of being taken for granted with a woman or you will have no chance in hell of her respecting you.

Sorry to hear about your situation Brock :frowning:

And yes,nice guys finish last. I am a good example. I’ll stop here.

Doogie, you’re totally off-base in your
guess of what happened with Brock. Sure,
your guess might be accurate in a lot
of cases that sound similar, but not
here. I’ve met Brock and I’ve met his
wife, back when things were seemingly
going well, and basically your batting
average is 0.000 in your guess of what
went on.

Also, I can’t agree that it should be
a requirement that a woman be already
financially successful before finding
her “worthy” of a relationship. There
are many people of excellent character
who would make excellent mates that at
some point in their lives, especially
say early 20s, are not doing so well
financially. That shouldn’t be a factor
that rules someone out unless it’s just
a case of obvious total irresponsibility,
which I didn’t have the impression was
the case here at all.

Nice guys who have their heads up their ass get burned . Be yourself and be smart., and eventually the right women will come along. If you do get burned don’t let it happen again.

Well,

Whoever said it. Treat them poorly out of the shoot and learn to treat them nicely after time. Never allow someone to think that you are a chump though and be taken advantage of. We always think that being nice is wrong. Nice is fine, but you have to develop a certain firmness and look at how you may have affected the relationship. Brock, you got screwed. One question…did you not have any idea that she was a nut before this happened? I am not accusing you because people can hide a lot of things, but I’m sure if you look back, you’ll see that she was not right in the head all along. Sorry that had to happen to you. I had a similar thing happen to me. Ex was fucking everything that moved. She paid her price in loneliness. I STILL REALIZED WHAT I DID WRONG HOWEVER!!! I treated her poorly in other ways. I didn’t cheat like that, but we were both to blame. It sucks, but you will hopefully learn a good lesson from this. 1) Hot isn’t all that great. Good looking and fairly stable is a hell lof a lot better. 2) Why did you choose her? Were your reasons sound? 3) Don’t blame yourself. I know you are angry, but if you are “normal” you will blame yourself for some things. 4) She is not you. You are not a reflection of her bad behavior. 5) Toughen up and move forward. (I had to learn this the hard way and still fight with myself) Good luck! We’ll all get through this shit together!

EDog

“Did you not know she was a nut before you married her?” Wow, what a loaded question to someone who is “in love”. Have you ever noticed that people in love rarely see the flaws in their partners that everyone else sees? The thing is, people don’t want to see that someone they “love” is crazy, or abusive, or manipulative, or a cheater, or whatever. They are in love and the object of their affections is perfect, or will change for them. It happens all the time and you can’t tell them that their loves are imperfect or they’ll get mad at you. It’s only in the aftermath that the “I told you sos” come out.
I wholeheartedly agree with whoever it was (I can’t remember now, there have been so many replies!) that said that older women are more stable because they have had a taste of independence. That is so true! And it has nothing really to do with financial status or anything. If you attach yourself to a partner too early you may end up resenting the fact that you didn’t have time to “do your own thing”. A woman in her late twenties has had time to date, to travel, to work, to finish school, to have her own place, to make her own decisions, to correct her own mistakes, and that makes her a much better partner in the end. And by the way, the same holds true for men. If it is indeed true that women mature faster than men, then I guess guys should be in their early 30’s before they settle down! Haha–just kidding. It is true however that there is less chance of major relationship problems when both parties have had time to experience life on their own. Then there is less chance of being completely dependent on the other person for all of ones needs. The danger, however, is waiting way too long–when people are so set in their ways that flexibility is completely out of the question. That presents a whole new set of problems. And yes, there are always exceptions. Age difference is a big deal too, I think. Over 10 years difference, when the girl was so young is just plain nuts!

My comments were meant to be read in the context of this thread and in response to Brock’s beginning of “You’re correct–nice guys finish last”. First, Brock’s not finished. Secondly, that’s just whiney crap. What happened to Brock did not happen because he was nice. It happened because he married an immature, immorral woman. I’m certain she was was both of these things when they met. I’m certain his being nice to her did not turn her into what she is today. As KO wrote above, “Nice guys with their head up their ass get burned”. Also, Brock wrote “I want to tell you what a good husband I was.” Then he proceeded to list material things he bought his wife. That’s just messed up. I don’t really think any real woman would put “buys me material things” at the top of their list of good husband qualities. Again, I don’t think Brock is a bad guy or deserved what happened to him. However, I do think it is wrong for him to think it happened because he was nice.

I did not mean to say a woman has to be financially successful in order to be worthy of a relationship, but I do think they do have to be responsible. A 22 year old who can't afford food and heat IS irresponsible, unless there are some REALLY special circumstances. Maybe there were in Brock's wife's case. If so, I hope Brock tried to address those while he was married instead of just trying to give her everything. No disrespect was intended. I'm the number one leach on the Biotest company. I've been reading it free since the second week, and I owe all of you guys a lot. I'm just tired of the whiney "nice guys finish last" crap.

Doogie, I think you’re pretty much off base on this. From what I gathered from Brock’s specific case, he was stating that he provided for his wife. I hate to break it to you, but providing shelter, protection and a home for a wife is part of what makes a marriage. If its not, the why do people ask for alimony? IN fact, money issues are either the #1 or #2 reasons for marriage breakups. I was in a similar situation (though, not romantic)and it disappointing and pisses you off when you reach out and extend unconditional trust to a person and they then proceed to stab you in the back. Its called, among other things, respect and decency.

If money issues are in fact the #1 or #2 reason for marriages breaking apart, who in their right mind would marry someone who has already proven their inability to manage their own finances? I don’t think you have to marry a rich person, but at least look for someone who has shown they can live within their means. And saying that providing shelter and other material things means you are a good husband is crap. That’s like saying you’re a good dad just because you pay your child support. Providing material things is the bare minimum of decency. It doesn’t make you a “good” anything. My dad always provided for us. He also beat and belittled his wife and kids. I don’t at all accuse Brock of that, just trying to make my point.