Why Do Big Guys Do Dips But Not Pull-Ups?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
Just because they’re bodyweight exercises doesn’t mean the difficulty is equal. How many pull-ups can you do? How many dips can you do? Dips are easier and less stressful than chins are. If you can get the same stimulation from lat pulldowns without the hassle of preparation for pull-ups, the joint stress, and the difficulty isolating muscles, why do pull-ups?[/quote]

Dips aren’t easier. I do them weighted often using an hs machine but they are by no means easier if you add weight more than you weigh.

22

Right now Im 5’9 247, I do pullups often with different grips. I dont dip at all anymore as they have destroyed my shoulders ( cant even do BW dips w/o pain) as far as stressful I think dips are more stressfull for pullups, at least for me.

23

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.

Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.

if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.

Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.

Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.

I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]

i don’t care what you do for your interwebz physique X. i was stating a fact that most people in the gym follow the path of least resistance and use machines because they are easier.

you can spout off about what professional bodybuilders do or don’t. my comment was simply that most gym goers don’t do the basics because they are hard. I’ve been training in commercial gyms for over 20 years and most of the people that lift there are sitting back on some comfy machine instead, because it’s much easier than picking something heavy off the floor. It’s amazing to me how people will go to great lengths to make a great exercise easier.

If that strikes a nerve with you deal with it. I’m only stating what i’ve seen for over two decades. my opinion is just that, my opinion… and it’s an educated one.

24

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.

Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.

if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.

Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.

Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.

I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]

I have a lot of respect for Marauder, but I have to agree with this.

Every time I’ve done deadlifts I’ve ended up with some kind of back injury. Whether it comes down to form, technical issues or anything else, I don’t know, but they don’t work for me and have never done anything too positive for my back.

I got a decent sized back (or even a “big” back proportionately speaking,) from doing more conventional back training. And no, it wasn’t because I’m a pussy or didn’t want to work hard, it’s because it allowed me to work the targeted muscle more efficiently without injury.

25

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.

Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.

if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.

Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.

Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.

I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]

i don’t care what you do for your interwebz physique X. i was stating a fact that most people in the gym follow the path of least resistance and use machines because they are easier.

you can spout off about what professional bodybuilders do or don’t. my comment was simply that most gym goers don’t do the basics because they are hard. I’ve been training in commercial gyms for over 20 years and most of the people that lift there are sitting back on some comfy machine instead, because it’s much easier than picking something heavy off the floor. It’s amazing to me how people will go to great lengths to make a great exercise easier.

If that strikes a nerve with you deal with it. I’m only stating what i’ve seen for over two decades. my opinion is just that, my opinion… and it’s an educated one. [/quote]

But this forum is for people who have a serious interest in bodybuilding not weekend warriors. If we’re going to have serious/productive discussions in this forum we can’t assume people are avoiding exercises because they are hard.

26

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.

Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.

if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.

Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.

Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.

I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]

i don’t care what you do for your interwebz physique X. i was stating a fact that most people in the gym follow the path of least resistance and use machines because they are easier.

you can spout off about what professional bodybuilders do or don’t. my comment was simply that most gym goers don’t do the basics because they are hard. I’ve been training in commercial gyms for over 20 years and most of the people that lift there are sitting back on some comfy machine instead, because it’s much easier than picking something heavy off the floor. It’s amazing to me how people will go to great lengths to make a great exercise easier.

If that strikes a nerve with you deal with it. I’m only stating what i’ve seen for over two decades. my opinion is just that, my opinion… and it’s an educated one. [/quote]

But this forum is for people who have a serious interest in bodybuilding not weekend warriors. If we’re going to have serious/productive discussions in this forum we can’t assume people are avoiding exercises because they are hard.[/quote]

are we talking about people in this forum or people in most commercial gyms. that’s the problem…most people read something and immidiately think it’s directed at them.

go into any commercial gym and look around. what are they doing?? most of them have there asses plopped down on some machine doing absolutely nothing. that’s what my comment was about. not what bodybuilders do to build their physiques or what people on T-Nation do.

most gym goers are pussies.

27

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.

Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.

if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.

Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.

Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.

I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]

i don’t care what you do for your interwebz physique X. i was stating a fact that most people in the gym follow the path of least resistance and use machines because they are easier.

you can spout off about what professional bodybuilders do or don’t. my comment was simply that most gym goers don’t do the basics because they are hard. I’ve been training in commercial gyms for over 20 years and most of the people that lift there are sitting back on some comfy machine instead, because it’s much easier than picking something heavy off the floor. It’s amazing to me how people will go to great lengths to make a great exercise easier.

If that strikes a nerve with you deal with it. I’m only stating what i’ve seen for over two decades. my opinion is just that, my opinion… and it’s an educated one. [/quote]

This forum is not based on what most weekend warriors should do. I’m not a weekend warrior…yet you just told people that every big guy you see who avoids pull ups is doing so because they are HARD.

You wrote that. You did not qualify your statement to mean “only weekend warriors who aren’t big avoid exercises because they are hard”.

My response is educated as well.

28

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.

Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.

if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.

Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.

Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.

I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]

i don’t care what you do for your interwebz physique X. i was stating a fact that most people in the gym follow the path of least resistance and use machines because they are easier.

you can spout off about what professional bodybuilders do or don’t. my comment was simply that most gym goers don’t do the basics because they are hard. I’ve been training in commercial gyms for over 20 years and most of the people that lift there are sitting back on some comfy machine instead, because it’s much easier than picking something heavy off the floor. It’s amazing to me how people will go to great lengths to make a great exercise easier.

If that strikes a nerve with you deal with it. I’m only stating what i’ve seen for over two decades. my opinion is just that, my opinion… and it’s an educated one. [/quote]

This forum is not based on what most weekend warriors should do. I’m not a weekend warrior…yet you just told people that every big guy you see who avoids pull ups is doing so because they are HARD.

You wrote that. You did not qualify your statement to mean “only weekend warriors who aren’t big avoid exercises because they are hard”.

My response is educated as well.[/quote]

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
most people don’t do pullups because they are hard. it’s much easier to use a machine. that also goes for why most people don’t do squats or deads. I think it’s human nature to find the path of least resistance… and that path usually has a cable and pully attached to it:)[/quote]

He never said every big guy avoids hard work.

Strawwwww mannnnnnnnnnnn.

29

I do chins AND deads. If you don’t train your ego and focus on training the muscle they shouldn’t hurt you.

Dips are easier imo. I can bust out prolly 30 or 40 dips or do sets with 80-110 lbs.

I can bang out maybe 17 18 chins and I’m thrashed. Do sets with 40-50 lbs.

So, imo chins are much harder and you can’t focus on the contraction as well. Guys avoid them b/c they’re hard and some may not benefit if they can’t do a series of good sets.

30

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.

Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.

if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.

Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.

Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.

I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]

i don’t care what you do for your interwebz physique X. i was stating a fact that most people in the gym follow the path of least resistance and use machines because they are easier.

you can spout off about what professional bodybuilders do or don’t. my comment was simply that most gym goers don’t do the basics because they are hard. I’ve been training in commercial gyms for over 20 years and most of the people that lift there are sitting back on some comfy machine instead, because it’s much easier than picking something heavy off the floor. It’s amazing to me how people will go to great lengths to make a great exercise easier.

If that strikes a nerve with you deal with it. I’m only stating what i’ve seen for over two decades. my opinion is just that, my opinion… and it’s an educated one. [/quote]

This forum is not based on what most weekend warriors should do. I’m not a weekend warrior…yet you just told people that every big guy you see who avoids pull ups is doing so because they are HARD.

You wrote that. You did not qualify your statement to mean “only weekend warriors who aren’t big avoid exercises because they are hard”.

My response is educated as well.[/quote]

show me where i said “every big guy i see avoids pullups because they are hard”

this forum is such a joke most of the time because of this sort of crap. it’s like listening to a bunch of school girls argue. nothing ever gets accomplished.

it’s one big arguement about stupid shit.

and… i love how X calls me “that powerlifter”. he forgets that i’ve competed in more bodybuilding shows than anyone i know of on here. i find that pretty funny coming from someone who’s never competed. i’m more of a bodybuilder than you’ll ever be.

31

Oh shap. Shit just got really real!

32

[quote]Burst wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.

Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.

if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.

Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.

Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.

I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]

i don’t care what you do for your interwebz physique X. i was stating a fact that most people in the gym follow the path of least resistance and use machines because they are easier.

you can spout off about what professional bodybuilders do or don’t. my comment was simply that most gym goers don’t do the basics because they are hard. I’ve been training in commercial gyms for over 20 years and most of the people that lift there are sitting back on some comfy machine instead, because it’s much easier than picking something heavy off the floor. It’s amazing to me how people will go to great lengths to make a great exercise easier.

If that strikes a nerve with you deal with it. I’m only stating what i’ve seen for over two decades. my opinion is just that, my opinion… and it’s an educated one. [/quote]

This forum is not based on what most weekend warriors should do. I’m not a weekend warrior…yet you just told people that every big guy you see who avoids pull ups is doing so because they are HARD.

You wrote that. You did not qualify your statement to mean “only weekend warriors who aren’t big avoid exercises because they are hard”.

My response is educated as well.[/quote]

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
most people don’t do pullups because they are hard. it’s much easier to use a machine. that also goes for why most people don’t do squats or deads. I think it’s human nature to find the path of least resistance… and that path usually has a cable and pully attached to it:)[/quote]

He never said every big guy avoids hard work.

Strawwwww mannnnnnnnnnnn.[/quote]

This is a bodybuilding forum. Why would we be discussing what average people who aren’t serious are doing at all? MM has also made it very clear in past posts that he looks down on machines even though they have helped build many impressive physiques.

The truth is, if you get back pain from doing deadlifts and you keep doing them, you are dumbass no matter what powerlifters on the internet write.

33

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh goodness. I do what works, not what someone else thinks I should do. I don’t do deadlifts. Why? It is damn sure NOT because they are “hard” because I train HARD every fucking time I am in the gym. I don’t do them because I have a big back without them. I also do pulldowns. Why? Because I got big lats from doing them plus I can hold the contraction.

Vic Martinez can be seen doing pull ups in every training vid he has…and he is one of the freaks. That means anyone assuming this is something that big guys just do is WRONG. Big guys are going to do what has worked to get them big.

if you are doing exercises simply because some powerlifter on the internet told you that you are a pussy without doing them or made up some bull about every big guy not doing it because it’s “hard”, then you will likely not even meet your own optimal pace for muscle gains.

Do what works for you. That should be what we are all doing.

Do NOT do shit just because it’s the in thing to do.

I see a lot of people here claiming they do deadlifts. I do NOT see that many really impressive backs here.[/quote]

i don’t care what you do for your interwebz physique X. i was stating a fact that most people in the gym follow the path of least resistance and use machines because they are easier.

you can spout off about what professional bodybuilders do or don’t. my comment was simply that most gym goers don’t do the basics because they are hard. I’ve been training in commercial gyms for over 20 years and most of the people that lift there are sitting back on some comfy machine instead, because it’s much easier than picking something heavy off the floor. It’s amazing to me how people will go to great lengths to make a great exercise easier.

If that strikes a nerve with you deal with it. I’m only stating what i’ve seen for over two decades. my opinion is just that, my opinion… and it’s an educated one. [/quote]

This forum is not based on what most weekend warriors should do. I’m not a weekend warrior…yet you just told people that every big guy you see who avoids pull ups is doing so because they are HARD.

You wrote that. You did not qualify your statement to mean “only weekend warriors who aren’t big avoid exercises because they are hard”.

My response is educated as well.[/quote]

show me where i said “every big guy i see avoids pullups because they are hard”

this forum is such a joke most of the time because of this sort of crap. it’s like listening to a bunch of school girls argue. nothing ever gets accomplished.

it’s one big arguement about stupid shit.

and… i love how X calls me “that powerlifter”. he forgets that i’ve competed in more bodybuilding shows than anyone i know of on here. i find that pretty funny coming from someone who’s never competed. i’m more of a bodybuilder than you’ll ever be.

[/quote]

Good for you.

I haven’t insulted you.

34

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I do chins AND deads. If you don’t train your ego and focus on training the muscle they shouldn’t hurt you.

Dips are easier imo. I can bust out prolly 30 or 40 dips or do sets with 80-110 lbs.

I can bang out maybe 17 18 chins and I’m thrashed. Do sets with 40-50 lbs.

So, imo chins are much harder and you can’t focus on the contraction as well. Guys avoid them b/c they’re hard and some may not benefit if they can’t do a series of good sets.

[/quote]

Weighted dips were part of my routine for years,while what you say about training the ego is certainly true in many cases, and maybe partially with me at times as a youngster (with weight training ego IMO creeps in wether you like it or not) But anyway ROM with dips can be a damaging exercise, as with wtd dips ROM for me went beyond 90 degrees which I believe led to impingement issues

35

Bodyweight dips are easier for me than bodyweight pullups when using a full ROM. I can do 18 dips vs. 8 dead hang pullups. Most gyms I’ve been to don’t have a good alternative to body weight dips. I’ve only seen a plate loaded dip machine once in the 10 gyms I’ve trained. Every gym has a lat pulldown machine which is a great alternative to pullups.

That piece of shit tricep press machine that chicks always use is in every gym but that thing is a joke. Anyway, it’s not like all big guys don’t do pullups anyway. I’ve seen a few and it’s easy to find videos on MD and youtube of huge guys doing them.

36

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I do chins AND deads. If you don’t train your ego and focus on training the muscle they shouldn’t hurt you.

Dips are easier imo. I can bust out prolly 30 or 40 dips or do sets with 80-110 lbs.

I can bang out maybe 17 18 chins and I’m thrashed. Do sets with 40-50 lbs.

So, imo chins are much harder and you can’t focus on the contraction as well. Guys avoid them b/c they’re hard and some may not benefit if they can’t do a series of good sets.

[/quote]

Weighted dips were part of my routine for years,while what you say about training the ego is certainly true in many cases, and maybe partially with me at times as a youngster (with weight training ego IMO creeps in wether you like it or not) But anyway ROM with dips can be a damaging exercise, as with wtd dips ROM for me went beyond 90 degrees which I believe led to impingement issues

[/quote]

Just from experience, when I did really heavy dips (for me that was 6 plates a side for the last set), if I did them twice a week, it would in almost all cases lead to shoulder inflammation that could last months afterwards.

Heavy dips are by no means easier than weighted pull ups. I agree, they can lead to shoulder issues if you aren’t careful and learn when to back off.

37

[quote]sam_sneed wrote:
Bodyweight dips are easier for me than bodyweight pullups when using a full ROM. I can do 18 dips vs. 8 dead hang pullups. Most gyms I’ve been to don’t have a good alternative to body weight dips. I’ve only seen a plate loaded dip machine once in the 10 gyms I’ve trained. Every gym has a lat pulldown machine which is a great alternative to pullups.

That piece of shit tricep press machine that chicks always use is in every gym but that thing is a joke. Anyway, it’s not like all big guys don’t do pullups anyway. I’ve seen a few and it’s easy to find videos on MD and youtube of huge guys doing them.[/quote]

True. Vic does them very controlled like he had done them all his life.

I know I started with pull ups but noticed I could feel that muscle contract more and hold the contraction with pull downs.

It comes down to what works for you.

38

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I do chins AND deads. If you don’t train your ego and focus on training the muscle they shouldn’t hurt you.

Dips are easier imo. I can bust out prolly 30 or 40 dips or do sets with 80-110 lbs.

I can bang out maybe 17 18 chins and I’m thrashed. Do sets with 40-50 lbs.

So, imo chins are much harder and you can’t focus on the contraction as well. Guys avoid them b/c they’re hard and some may not benefit if they can’t do a series of good sets.

[/quote]

Weighted dips were part of my routine for years,while what you say about training the ego is certainly true in many cases, and maybe partially with me at times as a youngster (with weight training ego IMO creeps in wether you like it or not) But anyway ROM with dips can be a damaging exercise, as with wtd dips ROM for me went beyond 90 degrees which I believe led to impingement issues

[/quote]

Just from experience, when I did really heavy dips (for me that was 6 plates a side for the last set), if I did them twice a week, it would in almost all cases lead to shoulder inflammation that could last months afterwards.

Heavy dips are by no means easier than weighted pull ups. I agree, they can lead to shoulder issues if you aren’t careful and learn when to back off.
[/quote]

x2…unfortunately I didnt know when to back off and now cant do em at all.

39

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Dips aren’t easier. I do them weighted often using an hs machine but they are by no means easier if you add weight more than you weigh.[/quote]

I’m pretty sure he was comparing bodyweight dips to pullups and in that case dips are easier than pullups. I’ve trained with a lot of different people and I have never come across someone who can’t do more bodyweight dips than pullups.

40

[quote]ericcartman wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Dips aren’t easier. I do them weighted often using an hs machine but they are by no means easier if you add weight more than you weigh.[/quote]

I’m pretty sure he was comparing bodyweight dips to pullups and in that case dips are easier than pullups. I’ve trained with a lot of different people and I have never come across someone who can’t do more bodyweight dips than pullups.[/quote]

OK, but if your goal is to be big, you will have to use more than just body weight for dips.