T Nation

Why Do Americans Care So Much About Freedom

Those in Aus appear perpetually concerned with common sense, even if "common sense’’ equates to undue restrictions on general activity (I’m not talking about Covid lockdowns) imposed in effort to enforce any given draconian agenda. Endless red tape/ridiculous nanny state regulations supersedes the notion of common sense when bills start coming in aiming to decrease residential speed limits to 18MPH despite Aus already having one of the lowest road death tolls in the develop world.

I talk about this and I get bombarded with “you clearly don’t care about safety, have you seen an accident?”. I respond “zero deaths isn’t feasible unless you stop people from driving, this is akin using a sledgehammer to hammer in a nail that’s already been precisely drilled in”.

I have seen aftermaths of accidents; one was fairly grizzly. This alone isn’t going to change my mind. Statistics matter to me more than feelings and hysteria.

@Beyond_Beyond Joiiiiiiinnn the connnnvveeerrrssaatiiooonnn

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I agree that we should help folks like this. I have a friend who hasn’t been able to work due to complications from spinabifida (like fluorescent lights give her splitting migraines and she can’t feel her feet very well so she can’t drive).

However, if one is capable of even something like data entry on a computer or making phone calls there are jobs for that.

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In regards to the nanny state in Australia, it is pretty bad. One state SA has decided certain types of Nerf toy guns for kids(and kids at heart), need to be registered as fire arms, because they can use gel ball ammunition.
Recently gel blasters were declared firearms in all but one state, mainly because they appear to be “real firearms”, regardless that they have no real capacity to harm someone let alone kill them. So Nerf guns don’t look like real guns, but they are banned because gel blasters look like real guns. There is no logical consistency applied to lawmaking when it comes to an issue like firearms, emotional manipulation trumps reality every time.

In regards to traffic rules, they have become so complex, that you can barely concentrate on what’s going on around you because, the speed limits change all the time, school zones on certain days, and times.
Licensing for learner drivers is onerous compared with how things were when I got mine. Previously, 9 months min, as a learner, then 1 year provisional, then you got a full license.
Now you need 1 year as a learner, with 120 hrs log of driving in different conditions, day, 20 hrs at night etc. Provisional licences for 3 years, before granting a full licence.

I don’t think there has been a significant change in accidents or deaths from young drivers as a result of more education, and limitations. All it means is kids have to unnecessarily jump through hoops to satisfy authorities, for no real use.
If war was declared and they needed pilots, you could get someone trained up in 3 months of intensive training, yet 4 years before someone is qualified to drive a shitty car.

Unemployment relief is pretty good in Australia. You wouldn’t want to live on it any longer than you had to, if you have options, and are healthy enough to work.
I have reservations about the cost of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, due to the large amounts of costs. Commendable idea, but I can’t see it being sustainable in the long run.

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In Victoria it’s TWO years and you don’t get a full license until you are 22.

What’s more, the ACT is going to ban those without a full license from driving between 12am and 5am from driving and is going to reduce passenger caps those below 21-22, dictating they can only have one passenger between 16-25… WHAT

Daniel Andrews has tabled a law staying L platers caught driving without an adult … Wait for it… Will be punished with JAIL time.

As to random roadside drug testing. Did you smoke a joint three days ago? That’s grounds for loss of license and a 1000$+ fine if they detect a trace in your saliva.

Kites/soccer balls are banned on beaches in NSW. E-scooters are banned in plenty of states. Strip searching kids? Totally fine.

Using drones for mass surveillance during lockdown? Apparently that’s fine too. On a yearly basis police powers appear to be extended to extraordinary lengths.

Don’t get me started on our dumbass helmet laws and how we are making VAPING illegal yet allow cigarettes to be sold practically everywhere (which… Why? Smoking is banned in plenty of areas outside because… Morality I guess?)

You need a permit for virtually everything. From fishing to going on a jetski to installing a hot tub on your own property. It’s a processed filled with bureaucratic nonsense designed primarily to raise revenue.

Want a gun license? You can get one, but you are then subjected to routine and random property checks through law enforcement. It appears gun owners despite being one of the more law abaiding demographics within Aus are placed under undue scrutiny by government institutions because they can use this population as a scapegoat as the average Aussie is woefully uninformed regarding this topic. They’ll allow the government to pull a lot of nonsensical legislature out of their ass because they’ll believe it’s for the greater good. It’s quite easy to sway and manipulate an uneducated cohort.

As to the covid restrictions here. I’m happy we are in such a fortunate situation. But we are virtually the only developed nation of which outright bans citizens from leaving. What’s more it doesn’t appear as if they’ll allow citizens to travel internationally for at least twelve more months. There was a loophole through NZ wherein desperate Aussies were going to NZ once the bubble opened and leaving NZ to Europe/the USA as you can leave NZ. As I specified earlier Greg Hunt quickly drafted legislature as to impose jail sentences for those who leave, come back and quarantine in NZ, then come back here.

WHY? There are so many further aspects of our current sociocultural and political paradigm that irk me. We are still one of the more democratic countries, though over the past ten years we have been rapidly falling regarding our democratic index/corruption scale.

Our economy is fucked and we are losing around 4 BILLION per month off lack of tourism alone. Our GDP isn’t anywhere near that of America to begin with, a 4 billion net loss per month for us is a looooot.

Universities are facing unprecedented budget cuts, the majority of my learning is still online despite us having zero cases. It’s bullshit. I don’t want the quality of my education undermined due to the incompetency of our state and federal government’s.

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This sort of sums it up.


I’m talking about government legislation dictating what we can or cannot do in our daily lives, not corporate overlords and shit.

Yes, in reality, everyone everywhere in the world in developed countries with different degrees of freedom aren’t really “free” since we all still face the illusion of “choice” from stuff such as extreme socioeconomic factors, and are subject to whatever control the market and those with immense power over it have.

This is why there should be as little further deprivation of such “freedom” as reasonably possible through government legislation.


Unfortunately, I see the US headed in this same direction. We have similar provisions on learners driver licenses and probational licenses depending on the state you live in. They are making it harder for law abiding citizens to buy firearms and ammo (it’s not helping crime rates). Educational institutes are becoming places where instead of encouraging open debate and dialogue, any perceived opposite opinion is condemned outright.

Most people here now seem not to actually want freedom, but a false sense of security (see the Patriot Act, the TSA etc…)

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I overlooked that part in my original post but yes, you’re absolutely right.

Freedom sure beats the hell out of being told what not to do, when not to do it and having very little choice in the matter. If you can’t do important things because your government has said so, well, that’s a big problem.

It is important, for freedom’s sake, that the important things continue to be done.


You could make that point, and I’d be happy to hear your attempt at making it :slight_smile:

You don’t get to link another person’s thoughts on PWI and expect people to respond to that. It’s against the Terms and Conditions.

Let’s accept the premise that we do live in a world of choice overload. There’s one question that’s almost always worth asking, and I do my best to remember to ask it for most situations. The first question to ask is…

“Compared to what?”


Reminds me of Hemingway’s brother:

“Hemingway founded his micronation of New Atlantis on an 8 foot by 30 foot (2.5 m x 9 m) barge he had towed 12 nautical miles (22 km) out from Jamaica, in July 1964. He utilized the 1856 Guano Islands Act to claim half of the barge as a new nation and half for the United States. Hemingway also “wrote” a constitution, which was a copy of the U.S. Constitution with the words “New Atlantis” substituted for “United States”. New Atlantis’ purpose was to generate money for oceanographic research by selling coins and stamps. In 1966, the micronation was ravaged by a storm and then ransacked by fishermen.”

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This was a shrewd move for him but it would only leave me with just over 8 linear feet of sovereign land on the Lund. And broad of beam, she is not. Rebellion, it is.

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I beat you to that YouTube Link halfway up the thread!

Ah. I see it now…but mine shows up as a video instead of as a link, so I have that going for myself.

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Why I care about my freedoms…just look at 1930s germany, Italy and Japan…look at Castro’s Cuba, look at China and Russia…no thanks, I will take America’s freedoms any day

The sad part is…we are gradually losing our freedoms and one day the American empire will fall

So what? Why are you entitled to own more wealth than the previous generation?

Does it, necessarily? Many factors come into play, not least a lack of will. While there are plenty without opportunities, there are plenty with opportunities a plenty but a lack of will to take them.

While there are, and always have been, issues and your overall point draws on a number of them, your entire argument seems to stem from the idea that you are entitled to a better standard of living for less effort.

The history of mankind has been selling your time and effort, for the duration of your life, in exchange for the necessities of life. From subsistence farming that most of the world, for most of history, has been involved in to todays western 9-5. Called the need for a job to live ‘wage slavery’ is cute, but no different to calling all other forms of work for the masses throughout history ‘hunger slavery’.

To reiterate, there are clearly issues that we have the ability to address, however framing the problems through a lens of victimhood and entitlement will not get us any closer to solutions.


I don’t think he’s speaking for entitlement. When a generation’s parents could buy a home with one year’s salary from an ordinary J-O-B and with those same types of jobs have to wait and wait to buy or will never be able to, I believe that situation is telling.

I see this often on forums, and it’s not directed at you personally. Someone talks about an issue or what seems to be an issue and then what’s assumed is that person is actually experiencing it or feels entitled.


I don’t have a problem with this to an extent. I never liked just how loose gun laws were in the USA (lived there for seven years). At the same time I’m certainly not pro the draconian measures taken (i.e the sledgehammer approach) within Australia. Canada seems to have a reasonable balance.

I don’t believe firearm vigilantism decreases crime rates unless we refer to already lawless neighbourhoods/societies, at least I’ve never seen an adequate body of data making this case.

A house on average within Melbourne/Sydney will fetch a median of around one million dollars… Another large reason as to why I don’t want to live in Aus as an adult. Good look accruing a spare MILLION before the age of 40…

It’s like this (or worse) in most major cities now. My brother is currently looking to buy in Moscow - AU$300,000 would buy a dirty 3 room, 65 square metre flat. This is what the bathroom looks like:

In Perth prices are starting to rise now, but AU$400,000 would still buy a pretty decent 4x2 about 10km from the CBD.

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Do they not have mortgages in AUS?

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