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Why Can't You Take HCG and Clomid Together?

Can someone explain me why you cant take HCG and clomid together?

Clomid binds to estrogen receptors within the body, cancelling out the actions of estrogen on various tissues (say mammary tissue etc) whilst not actually decreasing concentrations of the hormone in the body… with this it also inhibits the negative feedback initiated via estrogens and thus allows a heightened output of LH/FSH… HCG mimicks LH and thus prolongs any negative feedback loop directed towards the anterior pituitary initiated by AAS. You’re mimcking LH, something of which AAS don’t as they bypass that stage, mimicking naturally produced testosterone. By mimicking LH, HCG forces the testis back up, albeit artificially… thus intratesticular testosterone secretion starts up, size of the gonads increase etc. but once you go off, given that the negative feedback loop has kept running… LH/FSH plummet back to undetectable levels, testosterone falls abysmally low

Clomid is two drugs btw (isomers) zuclomiphene and enclomiphene, enclomiphene is responsible for the positive effects whilst zuclomiphene is actually antigonadotrophic… but the majority of clomid consists of enclomiphene, thus cancelling out the effects of zuclomiphene and still initiating LH/FSH stimulation.

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So hcg advaocte a negative feedback loop and clomid advocate a postive one and that why they are antagonists?

They’re not both antagonists… HCG antagonises clomid’s effect to the point wherein it’ll probably do practically nothing

Clomid cant activate a positive stimulus to the HPTA when the HPTA is continually being suppressed with an exogenous variable

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Can I take clomid if my estrogen levels are already low?

Is Clomid and an AI like arimidex a good idea?

@bensontrt Yes
@peterson No

That is incorrect. Zuclomiphene is anywhere between 30-50% of the total isomer. Enclomiphene in no way cancels it out. In my experience it causes severe estrogenic side effects even in low doses; Clomid 12.5mg EOD within 2 days (This was a rx from a pharmacy) caused gyno, fat gain, ED, suicidal depression, etc.

By cancel out I’m referring to the antigonadotrophic effect… Zuclomiphine makes up 38% of Clomiphene, thus the ‘majority’ is enclomiphene

If Zuclomiphines effect wasn’t cancelled out (not regarding neurology… pertaining to LH/FSH stimulation, the designated effect the drug is designed to have when used in men… then Clomiphene would shut down/suppress the HPTA

For many Clomiphene isn’t a great drug, its rather harsh. Generally tamoxifen is probably the better choice, though long term data regarding men, serms and an established safety profile is lacking… thus we are primarily running on anecdote/clinical trials of short duration.

Hence generally when Clomid is used as a first line treatment regarding secondary hypogonadism, many men won’t report feeling better, some even feel worse

I believe the notion of an HCG + clomid protocol within literature and medical practice will eventually be phased out given the antagonistic mechanisms by which the drugs act upon