T Nation

Why Are So Many Users Bald/Balding?


I'm curious because I rarin' to do a 3rd cycle of Test (500 mg/wk) but I did lose some hair on my last one. I'm considering using Propecia + Spiro + Nizoral to not lose any this time. But the above question gives me some pause. Is it still a crapshoot despite the drugs?


One could also ask why "so many" non-users are balding.

I'm not sure there's any drastic difference in percentage. What there probably is is getting to a given point somewhat earlier than what would have occurred anyway.

Lacking identical twin studies, it's impossible to say for sure.


I'm in a similar spot as you. I've been using Propecia for hairloss the past year and a half with great results but want to run a cycle of Test. Would Propecia prevent hairloss while on cycle? Or would Proepcia already lowering my DHT levels by 70% lessen the cycle's effectivenes?


Sorry, my question got shortened my the moderator and might not have the original meaning. My question was basically why are AAS users still getting bald in this day and age when these hair drugs are now known and readily available? I can't help noticing many AAS users both in public and in magazines seem to be balding pretty severely.

I'm thinking maybe it's because they're using compounds like Tren, Dbol, Winny, etc. that all reportedly cause hair loss and are not helped by drugs such as Propecia. On the other hand, could it be also because some people simply do not repond at all and therefore shed hair even on Test only despite using Propecia + topicals?

In a nutshell, what are the chances that I'll shed hair again on a Test only cycle even though I use Propecia, Nizoral, and Spiro?

Thanks in advance.


I'm curious - have you noticed any of the dreaded sides that some people get from the drug - especially the sexual sides?



Nope. Less than 2% of users in the official clinical studies experienced any sides and went away after discontinuing (http://www.propecia.com/finasteride/propecia/consumer/about-propecia-finasteride/possible_side_effects.jsp).
Unfortunately, if you're the type of person who thinks you'll get sides before taking it you probably will.

To get back to the topic if a person using Propecia/Nizoral was to do a short cycle of Test would they be okay hairwise?


Yes, it turns out I definitely didn't understand what you were asking.

I don't think it's known in an absolutely locked-down, every-mechanistic-detail way precisely how androgens increase hair loss in those subject to male pattern baldness but at least two mechanisms are involved: activation of the androgen receptor, and (of at least some importance but perhaps not much) an activity of 5a-androstanediol, a DHT metabolite, that increases hair loss.

In an individual with normal testosterone levels or only slightly increased testosterone levels, the 5a-reductase enzyme in the scalp yields greater effect at the androgen receptor at the scalp because total levels of hormone (testosterone plus DHT) are the same, but the percentage that is the more-active-for-any-given-concentration DHT form is higher. And because there is still room for further activity by the AR: it's not saturated yet or very close to it.

However in an individual with testosterone levels that are far above normal, then while it's true that the 5-AR enzyme will still have this effect, the importance will be a lot less because levels are so high that the receptors may be nearly saturated in either case.

And even besides that, the best that a 5-AR inhibitor can do is to cause all of the testosterone to still remain testosterone. Which itself is quite active at the androgen receptor. So there's no way for Propecia or any 5-AR inhibitor to stop this.

It is true that blocking 5-AR activity will result in blocking production of 5a-androstanediol but while perhaps that may be helpful, apparently it's not sufficient.

Many in bb'ing don't use 5-AR inhibitors during a cycle because of first not finding them effective and second because of concerns of loss of gains or feeling less "charged" mentally while using them.

The synthetic drugs you mention aren't affected by whether one uses a 5-AR inhibitor or not.

Basically, if planning to get the androgen receptors highly active in muscle, they're going to be highly active in the scalp as well, whether a 5-AR inhibitor is used or not.


i thought male pattern baldness was heredetary...and AAS just speeds it up


You're right, for you lucky bastards that don't have the MPB gene you won't lose your hair regardless of what AAS you're taking.

Shit sucks because at 23 and 5 years of training I'm ready for a short, low-dosage test cycle but can't do it because my hair is more important to me.


Thanks for that, Bill. Am I to understand that taking 5-AR inhibitors on a Test cycle is not necessarily going to help much?


If you are really concerned about hair, nandrolone is the way to go. Use an HRT dose of test or a little higher and throw in the deca. You're libido will probably tank, but if you want to get jacked, and keep all your hair, its your safest option.

The difficult part is finding quality nandrolone.


Wouldn't the HRT dose of Test cause hair loss as well?


I'll share this with you since I believe I was in the same boat at one time. I have a family history of moderate MPB on my father's side. At age 26 with two cycles under my belt I still have a full head of hair (long hair). (Cycles were Test E and Dbol fwiw) I took propecia at age 20 for about a year and a half because my hair was thinning and I thought I was going bald- but it was just thinning, not falling out.

Started taking it a few weeks prior to my first cycle because I thought FOR SURE I would experience hairloss. I stopped taking it around week 4 because I decided I wanted to know if AAS was going to cause hairloss for me. I didn't want to spend $70 a month (or $20ish for proscar) if I didn't have to. Thank God I did that and I don't have to "live in fear" thinking if I don't take it, I'll go bald. Would've cost a fortune.

The bottom-line is, in most cases propecia can re-grow hair you've lost. Just like with AAS it affects everyone differently. Some experience regrowth and some are only able to stop hairloss in its tracks. If I were you I'd wait to see what happens and take it from there. IF you lose hair, take propecia and see if you can grow it back. If you can't, drop propecia and save the money you'd waste and spend it on bosley or plugs. It's not like in this day and age you just have to deal with being bald. ( I think that's from the bosley commercial? lol)

I'm starting my 3rd cycle in a few weeks and couldn't give a shit about hairloss. Nobody's gonna make fun of you anyway if you're bald AND jacked.


Anavar seems like it would be safe on the hairline for me and the OP? Ideally I'd like to do 250/wk Test only but Anavar seems like a decent alternative (not very androgenic, midly anabolic, good and permanent strength gains, bodyfat loss, not as harsh on liver and HPTA as other orals). What do you guys think?


I looked into that. From what I gather, Anavar is very heavily faked, so you have a high risk of getting Dbol instead. Great gains, but guys like us will wind up looking like Mr. Clean. If by chance you do get real Anavar, it appears that the gains are so minimal and the cost so high, that one may as well just load Creatine.


If hair loss is inevitable, AAS may just speed up the process so you can hurry up and shave that shit. (As in my case).


Hairloss, if caught early enough, is not inevitable with a DHT blocker such as Propecia or Advodart and a growth stiumlant such as Rogaine. In fact, you can keep recession at bay for many years even with the MPB gene.

I think I'm going to try to find a legit Anavar source. I really don't see what other options I have seeing I'm not ready for my hairline to take a hit at 23.


If you are talking about "common baldness" aka male pattern baldness aka (androgenetic alopecia). then yes it CAN help. However, there are too many factors when considering baldness as a whole. A simple DHT blocker and some Rogain may not help in certain causes of baldness. For example, baldness due to thyroid disease, lupus, diabetes, fungus...the list goes on and on. Certain medications may cause baldness such as medicines used for gout, high blood pressure, birth control pills, and antidepressants....thus being inevitable. But then again, if you are taking medications for those purposes maybe AAS isn't the way to go.


Certainly not, especially when combined with legitimate nandrolone. DHN will protect your hair.

And anavar is no wonder drug when it comes to hair, i've known people using legit labtested oxandrolone that lost significant amounts of hair using nothing else. For anyone that wants to do gear but has a sensitive scalp, nandrolone is your only safe option IMO. And ideally you would just use nandrolone alone, plus a small enough dose of test to mimic what you have naturally, or a little more.

Its not ideal from a recovery standpoint, since nandrolone is so supressive. Then again, if you used the phenylpropriate ester, that would make recovery easier.

I would say that for most people, a few cycles of 400mg nandrolone, 100mg test, should be enough to give them satisfactory results from a bodybuilding standpoint. Granted you aren't going to be stepping on stage, but how many people really want to do that? Most people are more than happy with 40 lbs of extra muscle mass. Nandrolone is a great anabolic.

You will however most likely lose the ability to get it up, or at least your libido will take a significant hit. You can't have it all though if you care about hair!