Why 2015 Will Ramp Up the Revival of Boxing

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
The body gets bigger with age so by the time he had the 3rd Frazier fight he couldn’t come close to the 1st Liston fight weight. Put him up against 90% of his contemporaries and she how he looks like a weight class below. Frazier Norton looked twice as thick
[/quote]

I don’t care how he “looks.” The man was 6 foot 3 and 220 lbs with a longer reach and bigger fist than Foreman.

Say what you want about how he fights, but if you’re saying he was a “blown up cruiserweight,” you’re simply wrong.

22

He grew into a soft heavyweight physique, He is not a natural 1 punch Heavyweight. The one thing that people was afraid wasn’t his punches or even the ring generalship. It was how fear of being “punked” by the guy who talked a lot of smack

23

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
He grew into a soft heavyweight physique, He is not a natural 1 punch Heavyweight. The one thing that people was afraid wasn’t his punches or even the ring generalship. It was how fear of being “punked” by the guy who talked a lot of smack[/quote]

Do you even know what you’re typing?

24

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
He grew into a soft heavyweight physique, He is not a natural 1 punch Heavyweight. The one thing that people was afraid wasn’t his punches or even the ring generalship. It was how fear of being “punked” by the guy who talked a lot of smack[/quote]

ali was fucking huge.

please stop posting in this thread. all of your posts in this thread are atrocious.

just start your own thread about it. cheers.

25

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
The body gets bigger with age so by the time he had the 3rd Frazier fight he couldn’t come close to the 1st Liston fight weight. Put him up against 90% of his contemporaries and she how he looks like a weight class below. Frazier Norton looked twice as thick
[/quote]

I don’t care how he “looks.” The man was 6 foot 3 and 220 lbs with a longer reach and bigger fist than Foreman.

Say what you want about how he fights, but if you’re saying he was a “blown up cruiserweight,” you’re simply wrong. [/quote]

Was Ali’s fist really bigger than Foreman’s? From vids and photos, Ali looked like a relatively small framed guy (in comparison to dudes like Foreman, Liston, etc…) I’ve seen Foreman up close. Even as an older guy he’s a fucking house. Dude’s massive.

26

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
The body gets bigger with age so by the time he had the 3rd Frazier fight he couldn’t come close to the 1st Liston fight weight. Put him up against 90% of his contemporaries and she how he looks like a weight class below. Frazier Norton looked twice as thick
[/quote]

I don’t care how he “looks.” The man was 6 foot 3 and 220 lbs with a longer reach and bigger fist than Foreman.

Say what you want about how he fights, but if you’re saying he was a “blown up cruiserweight,” you’re simply wrong. [/quote]

Was Ali’s fist really bigger than Foreman’s? From vids and photos, Ali looked like a relatively small framed guy (in comparison to dudes like Foreman, Liston, etc…) I’ve seen Foreman up close. Even as an older guy he’s a fucking house. Dude’s massive.[/quote]

Well I think everyone is small framed standing next to Liston and Foreman.

But yea, the sources I’ve found list his fist at a half inch bigger than Foreman’s.

Go to 2:20 in this video, he talks about how he’s actually bigger than Foreman (he was the same height, too).

27

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
The body gets bigger with age so by the time he had the 3rd Frazier fight he couldn’t come close to the 1st Liston fight weight. Put him up against 90% of his contemporaries and she how he looks like a weight class below. Frazier Norton looked twice as thick
[/quote]

I don’t care how he “looks.” The man was 6 foot 3 and 220 lbs with a longer reach and bigger fist than Foreman.

Say what you want about how he fights, but if you’re saying he was a “blown up cruiserweight,” you’re simply wrong. [/quote]

Was Ali’s fist really bigger than Foreman’s? From vids and photos, Ali looked like a relatively small framed guy (in comparison to dudes like Foreman, Liston, etc…) I’ve seen Foreman up close. Even as an older guy he’s a fucking house. Dude’s massive.[/quote]

Well I think everyone is small framed standing next to Liston and Foreman.

But yea, the sources I’ve found list his fist at a half inch bigger than Foreman’s.

Go to 2:20 in this video, he talks about how he’s actually bigger than Foreman (he was the same height, too).

Yup.

28

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
Bippity Boppity Boo
[/quote]

Or at least that is what I am getting.

I am not tracking how looking thick translates.

Regards,

Robert A

29

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I think that there are a number who would give them both fits - Tyson, Shavers, Ali, and Frazier would give Wlad a lot of problems.

Although I do tend to think that only Ali (and maybe Frazier) would give serious problems to Vitali. He’s a tough dude. [/quote]

A whole bunch of people give Wlad issues.

Both Klitschko brothers have very good, standard, boxing and heavy hands. They are also both tall as hell.

The knocks on Wlad are that he tends to be boring to watch, almost like an automaton. Also I think he has the same issue Lennix Lewis had, in that he has a very good chin instead of a great one. This means that he often fights a little “conservative” compared to what people want in a heavyweight with 50 plus knockouts.

I agree with you list for Wlad, but I would like to point out that you have once again neglected Joe Louis from the list. Louis would have put Ali in the ICU. I think he would handle either Klitschko based on what we have seen from them so far.

Also, an old, past his prime, and way under trained Lennix Lewis managed to get a TKO against Vitali, albeit an early model. So I think it is fair to say that a prime Lewis is far from a pushover for either brother.

I would put a “prime”(pre-Patterson) Sonny Liston on Wlad’s list also. Someone with that type of power, aggression, and ability to hook and jab could create big problems for anyone trying to box in the more “European” upright style.

The most “interesting” past/Klitschko fight I would like to see is Larry Holmes vs either of them. I want to see what a height disadvantage does to Holmes game. I want to see if his ability to jab and set pace screw up the Klitschko Cruise Control to a Win tempo (more a suspicion in Wlad’s case). This is almost a gatekeeper into the other “What if” fights.

Oh, also sense we are doing cool cross era match ups I want to see Evander Holyfield vs Rocky Marciano with a 1950’s style interpretation of the rules. More elbows than a Lumpinee Stadium Championship. More headbutts than a London Oi! Concert.

Thanks for remembering Shavers. IF he hadn’t had to swim in the Ali, Frazier, Foreman waters he would have held the belt.

Regards,

Robert A

30

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
The body gets bigger with age so by the time he had the 3rd Frazier fight he couldn’t come close to the 1st Liston fight weight. Put him up against 90% of his contemporaries and she how he looks like a weight class below. Frazier Norton looked twice as thick
[/quote]

I don’t care how he “looks.” The man was 6 foot 3 and 220 lbs with a longer reach and bigger fist than Foreman.

Say what you want about how he fights, but if you’re saying he was a “blown up cruiserweight,” you’re simply wrong. [/quote]

Was Ali’s fist really bigger than Foreman’s? From vids and photos, Ali looked like a relatively small framed guy (in comparison to dudes like Foreman, Liston, etc…) I’ve seen Foreman up close. Even as an older guy he’s a fucking house. Dude’s massive.[/quote]

Well I think everyone is small framed standing next to Liston and Foreman.

But yea, the sources I’ve found list his fist at a half inch bigger than Foreman’s.

Go to 2:20 in this video, he talks about how he’s actually bigger than Foreman (he was the same height, too).

Ali said a lot of shit, most of which was pure nonsense. We saw them stand together. He’s not bigger than Foreman. Foreman was a bit taller and way thicker. I can buy the bigger hands though.

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[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

Ali said a lot of shit, most of which was pure nonsense. We saw them stand together. He’s not bigger than Foreman. Foreman was a bit taller and way thicker. I can buy the bigger hands though. [/quote]

Foreman was definitely thicker, but they’re both listed by multiple sources as 6 foot 3.

When you see pictures, they actually look the same size - or damn close to it.

32

after watching the video there is no denying the height is damn near identical easily within a 1/4 inch. Maybe my child hood memories of that fight in grainy techno color swayed me into seeing forearm as a towering monster. That and the destruction of Frazier with the 6 knock downs like he was a mere child.

I wish the heavy weight division had this (depth) again. So sad to see what it was at its peak to what it is now.

33

Robert A, you are dead on, I was waiting for the lawsuit from Disney

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[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I think that there are a number who would give them both fits - Tyson, Shavers, Ali, and Frazier would give Wlad a lot of problems.

Although I do tend to think that only Ali (and maybe Frazier) would give serious problems to Vitali. He’s a tough dude. [/quote]

A whole bunch of people give Wlad issues.

Both Klitschko brothers have very good, standard, boxing and heavy hands. They are also both tall as hell.

The knocks on Wlad are that he tends to be boring to watch, almost like an automaton. Also I think he has the same issue Lennix Lewis had, in that he has a very good chin instead of a great one. This means that he often fights a little “conservative” compared to what people want in a heavyweight with 50 plus knockouts.

I agree with you list for Wlad, but I would like to point out that you have once again neglected Joe Louis from the list. Louis would have put Ali in the ICU. I think he would handle either Klitschko based on what we have seen from them so far.

Also, an old, past his prime, and way under trained Lennix Lewis managed to get a TKO against Vitali, albeit an early model. So I think it is fair to say that a prime Lewis is far from a pushover for either brother.

I would put a “prime”(pre-Patterson) Sonny Liston on Wlad’s list also. Someone with that type of power, aggression, and ability to hook and jab could create big problems for anyone trying to box in the more “European” upright style.

The most “interesting” past/Klitschko fight I would like to see is Larry Holmes vs either of them. I want to see what a height disadvantage does to Holmes game. I want to see if his ability to jab and set pace screw up the Klitschko Cruise Control to a Win tempo (more a suspicion in Wlad’s case). This is almost a gatekeeper into the other “What if” fights.

Oh, also sense we are doing cool cross era match ups I want to see Evander Holyfield vs Rocky Marciano with a 1950’s style interpretation of the rules. More elbows than a Lumpinee Stadium Championship. More headbutts than a London Oi! Concert.

Thanks for remembering Shavers. IF he hadn’t had to swim in the Ali, Frazier, Foreman waters he would have held the belt.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

You’re totally right. I wrote that off the cuff and left off a lot of good boxers.

Wlad is a good champ, but in the pantheon of greats he’s not in the top 10. Vitali is slightly better, but also not in the top 10.

Larry Holmes would have been a GREAT fight - his size and jab would have been nightmarish for Wlad … especially because Holmes, unlike Wlad, isn’t afraid to throw his right hand. Definitely an underrated champ.

In Vitali’s defense, however, that stoppage against Lewis only saved Lewis from losing his crown later in the fight. I don’t count that as a “win” for him, especially because he wouldn’t take the rematch.

How do you think he/they would do against Frazier? I have thought often about this … they’re WAY taller, but he was a bull, and one of the finest swarmers ever. I have a hard time thinking that at least against Wlad, he doesn’t have a real chance at a KO win.

35

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
after watching the video there is no denying the height is damn near identical easily within a 1/4 inch. Maybe my child hood memories of that fight in grainy techno color swayed me into seeing forearm as a towering monster. That and the destruction of Frazier with the 6 knock downs like he was a mere child.

I wish the heavy weight division had this (depth) again. So sad to see what it was at its peak to what it is now.[/quote]

I don’t think it ever will. I hope so, but I don’t think it will get there … all the big dudes who would be are now middle linebackers…

36

MMA has stolen a lot of the talent from boxing along with a lot of sports and sadly the HORRIBLE judging isn’t helping bring in AMERICAN talent.

37

I think if Wlad had his brothers heart and chin he would challenge any man in history, but in regards to Frazier it boils down in my eyes to can Joe get in early and add up body work before the jab breaks him down. Joe tended to be a slow starter.
I know this A vs B is all debatable and opinion, but I think we have to look at era’s. Prime example is Tyson furry is a top 10 heavyweight now 20 years ago he isn’t making it past gate keeper

38

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
MMA has stolen a lot of the talent from boxing along with a lot of sports and sadly the HORRIBLE judging isn’t helping bring in AMERICAN talent.[/quote]

I don’t think MMA has stolen any talent, actually. The kind of guys who do MMA are not the same kind of kids that box - not in their background (both martial arts and living-wise), where they live, or their mentality. MMA attracts a lot of suburban people who wrestled in HS or do BJJ or started taking muay Thai after it was popular. Boxing attracts the urban guys who didn’t go to high school and could barely afford the $30 a month for the boxing gym.

Football, on the other hand, has FUCKED boxing.

39

[quote]BigEasy24 wrote:
I think if Wlad had his brothers heart and chin he would challenge any man in history, but in regards to Frazier it boils down in my eyes to can Joe get in early and add up body work before the jab breaks him down. Joe tended to be a slow starter.
I know this A vs B is all debatable and opinion, but I think we have to look at era’s. Prime example is Tyson furry is a top 10 heavyweight now 20 years ago he isn’t making it past gate keeper [/quote]

Yea, the idea that Fury is all of a sudden a big name in that division speaks to how poor that division is.

40

Sadly, and Frazier is one of my all time favourites, I think it would be murder if he was put in the ring with Klitschko. I think it would be Foreman Frazier all over again, except more brutal. I much prefer, and have far greater respect for, Frazier than the Klitschkos - he was a proper fighter, but he just didn’t have the height or size to be competitive against a technically excellent fighter with the physical attributes of Wlad/Vitali.