T Nation

Who's The Bigger Man?

Team Kerry stood silent while MoveOn.org and Michael Moore twisted half-truths into pure lies.

President Bush said today in regards to the attack ads, “I think they’re bad for the system.”

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040823/D84L30100.html

WRONG!

Kerry asked MoveOn to stop running the “Bush AWOL” ads, and so they did!

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) - President Bush on Monday denounced campaign commercials aired by outside groups, including an ad that accuses John Kerry of lying about his combat record in Vietnam.

“That ad and every other ad” run by such groups have no place in the campaign, Bush said when asked about the commercial sponsored by Swift Boat Veterans For Truth that has roiled the race for the White House.

Asked directly whether his Democratic rival for the presidency had lied, Bush said, “I think Senator Kerry served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record.”

[quote]Lumpy wrote:
WRONG!

Kerry asked MoveOn to stop running the “Bush AWOL” ads, and so they did![/quote]

Lumpy:

Perhaps the whole story should be presented on this – we need some nuance here…

Firstly, are you implying that John Kerry can and did control the ads run by MoveOn.org? That would DEFINITELY be a violation of the rules governing 527 organizations. Illegal, as they say.

Secondly, check out this ecxcerpt [see the whole post by following the link]:

http://www.celluloid-wisdom.com/pw/index.php/weblog/entry/kerry_i_condemned_the_moveonorg_ad_before_i_uncondemned_it/

Kerry: “I condemned the Moveon.org ad before I uncondemned it”

Not surprisingly, the Kerry campaign has decided to flip-flop on its ?condemnation? of the recent Moveon.org anti-Bush ad aimed (yawn) at George Bush?s Air National Guard record. From CNS:

[begin story]The Bush campaign has suggested that Sen. John Kerry join President Bush in calling off the dogs?those ?shadowy? 527 groups that run ads for and against Bush and Kerry.

The liberal group MoveOn.org and the anti-Kerry group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are both 527s, named after a section of the tax code.

But on Friday, a spokeswoman for the Kerry campaign backed away from the suggestion. She said what MoveOn.org is doing is perfectly fine, while what the Swift Boat Veterans are doing is ?dishonest? and ?dishonorable.?

Debra Deshong of the Kerry campaign told Fox News there?s a difference between MoveOn.org and Swift Boat Veterans for Truth: ?MoveOn.org is an independent organization that existed well before the Kerry campaign,? she said, whereas Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ?is not an independent group.?

Deshong invoked Friday?s New York Times article as proof: ?And in today?s New York Times, it details exactly all the ties this group (Swift Boat Veterans for Truth) has to the Bush White House.?

Deshong condemned Bush for not telling Swift Boat Veterans for Truth to stop running their ad. (Swift Boats say it wouldn?t matter what Bush said?see related story)

?Again, we (the Kerry campaign) have nothing to do with these independent ads, like MoveOn.org. That is an independent organization that existed well before the Kerry campaign. They have every right to be running what they are under the campaign finance laws.? According to Deshong, ?This is about the Swift Boat Vets that are running dishonorable ads that Bush refuses to condemn? (my emphasis)[End story]

Again, for those of you keeping score at home: John Kerry initially condemned the Moveon.org ad that maliciously floats disproven charges concerning George Bush?s Air National Guard service?only to have his campaign set up a press conference hours later so that Wes Clark and others could essentially repeat and reinforce the very claims Kerry was supposedly condemning. But now Kerry is taking his nuanced condemnation one step further: he?s no longer condemning the ad at all.

[quote]Lumpy wrote:
WRONG!

Kerry asked MoveOn to stop running the “Bush AWOL” ads, and so they did![/quote]

If you have proof of that, I’ll admit that I was wrong about MoveOn.org, but what about Michael Moore’s trash?

Michael Moore didn’t lie. The Swift Boat Vets did.

DrS,

You sure?

I wasn’t there.

They were.

Were you?

Have a wonderful week!!!

JeffR

[quote]DrS wrote:
Michael Moore didn’t lie. The Swift Boat Vets did. [/quote]

Keep running yourself into that wall there by saying Michael Moore didnt lie. I am sure eventually it will knock some sense into you. Until then, look back at the previous discussions on Michael Moore where he is completely discredited.

THanks,
me

[quote]jackzepplin wrote:
If you have proof of that, I’ll admit that I was wrong about MoveOn.org, but what about Michael Moore’s trash?[/quote]

I can’t seem to find the link to the story at the moment, but if I recall correctly Kerry asked MoveOn to stop running the “Bush went AWOL” ads, and so they did. You notice a lack of ads calling Bush AWOL? I certainly do. I will keep looking for this link, give me some time.

Also, see below, and note the date: Weeks ago, the GOP wanted to do some censorship of it’s own, for ads that criticized Bush’s POLICIES, and not his military service.

GOP wants ads that criticize Bush pulled
By Sharon Theimer, Associated Press Writer
3/5/2004

WASHINGTON – The Republican National Committee on Friday asked about 250 television stations to pull a liberal group’s ads critical of President Bush.
?
The RNC sent the stations a letter Friday suggesting the outlets may be complicit in breaking campaign finance laws if they air the MoveOn.org Voter Fund ads. It asked them to decline to broadcast the ads.

The RNC argues that the group, financed by so-called “soft money,” is spending it on ads to influence a federal election. The campaign finance law broadly bars the use of such corporate, union and unlimited donations to influence federal elections.

MoveOn began airing ads Thursday critical of Bush’s policies. {NOTE: NOT CHARACTER ASASSINATION like the Swift Boat Vets} MoveOn founder Wes Boyd said the ads are legal, and added that the group isn’t concerned by the RNC’s letter. The ads were financed with unlimited donations from individuals – one form of soft money.

The ads were originally to air in 17 presidential battleground states over five days at a cost of $1.9 million. Boyd said the group decided Friday to spend $1 million more to run an ad criticizing Bush’s economic policies for an additional week in several states.

In the letter, RNC chief counsel Jill Holtzman Vogel wrote, “As a broadcaster licensed by the Federal Communications Commission, you have a responsibility to the viewing public and to your licensing agency to refrain from complicity in any illegal activity, specifically in this case, violations of our nation’s federal election laws.”

Federal Election Commission spokesman Bob Biersack said the FEC could only determine whether there was anything amiss in the MoveOn ad buy by reviewing the details, something it typically would do if a complaint was filed against the group.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/05/gop_wants_ads_that_criticize_bush_pulled/

It seems clear that the democrats want to play the game by their rules e.g. Moveon.org, Michael Moore, negative ads, etc and then when the same tactics are used against them they cry fowl. I agree with what Bush said:

President Bush said today in regards to the attack ads, “I think they’re bad for the system.”

But doesn’t this strike anyone as kinda wimpy? Kinda like caving in (Kerry damands and Bush accedes)? Has it struck anyone that dealing with the dems is kinda like dealing with terrorists i.e. you can’t let them get away with anything and any effort at appeasement only gets you in hotter water. Why didn’t Bush call Kerry on his hypocracy i.e. wanting Bush to dissociate himself from these attacks while Kerry clearly not even comtemplating dissociating himself from the attacks at the Hollywood party, from Moveon.org. etc.

I’m mainly interested in the views from non-liberals (the rest of you–knock yourselves out). The dems are better at spin and better at dirty politics and sometimes I don’t think the republicans have the balls to stand up to them.

[quote]Lumpy wrote:
jackzepplin wrote:
If you have proof of that, I’ll admit that I was wrong about MoveOn.org, but what about Michael Moore’s trash?

I can’t seem to find the link to the story at the moment, but if I recall correctly Kerry asked MoveOn to stop running the “Bush went AWOL” ads, and so they did. You notice a lack of ads calling Bush AWOL? I certainly do. I will keep looking for this link, give me some time.

Also, see below, and note the date: Weeks ago, the GOP wanted to do some censorship of it’s own, for ads that criticized Bush’s POLICIES, and not his military service.

GOP wants ads that criticize Bush pulled
By Sharon Theimer, Associated Press Writer
3/5/2004

WASHINGTON – The Republican National Committee on Friday asked about 250 television stations to pull a liberal group’s ads critical of President Bush.
?
The RNC sent the stations a letter Friday suggesting the outlets may be complicit in breaking campaign finance laws if they air the MoveOn.org Voter Fund ads. It asked them to decline to broadcast the ads.

The RNC argues that the group, financed by so-called “soft money,” is spending it on ads to influence a federal election. The campaign finance law broadly bars the use of such corporate, union and unlimited donations to influence federal elections.

MoveOn began airing ads Thursday critical of Bush’s policies. {NOTE: NOT CHARACTER ASASSINATION like the Swift Boat Vets} MoveOn founder Wes Boyd said the ads are legal, and added that the group isn’t concerned by the RNC’s letter. The ads were financed with unlimited donations from individuals – one form of soft money.

The ads were originally to air in 17 presidential battleground states over five days at a cost of $1.9 million. Boyd said the group decided Friday to spend $1 million more to run an ad criticizing Bush’s economic policies for an additional week in several states.

In the letter, RNC chief counsel Jill Holtzman Vogel wrote, “As a broadcaster licensed by the Federal Communications Commission, you have a responsibility to the viewing public and to your licensing agency to refrain from complicity in any illegal activity, specifically in this case, violations of our nation’s federal election laws.”

Federal Election Commission spokesman Bob Biersack said the FEC could only determine whether there was anything amiss in the MoveOn ad buy by reviewing the details, something it typically would do if a complaint was filed against the group.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/05/gop_wants_ads_that_criticize_bush_pulled/

[/quote]

Sounds like they were accusing the liberal 527s of taking union/corporation money and using it for illegal (according to McCain-Feingold, with which I vehemently disagee) purposes under campaign finance laws. 527s have to operate under a specific set of guidelines, which regulate how they can apply their soft money.

If you don’t like it, get rid of campaign finance regulation (my personal favored solution).

Micheal Moore is cool…

[quote]DrS wrote:
Michael Moore didn’t lie. The Swift Boat Vets did. [/quote]

This was good. It made me laugh. Thanks!