T Nation

Who's Really Won?


Has the taliban won?

Yes we've killed their leaders and tons of them, but at what cost?

They made the largest attack on American soil, drew us into a multi-trillion dollar war with no way to win, and led to things like the Patriot Act and the recently signed NDAA. People always said the terrorists were jealous of our freedoms/liberties/rights and wanted to take them away, and ever since 9/11, it feels like Americans have been throwing them away without a second thought.

So cliff-notes.

Since 9-11:

Over 50,000 Americans killed. Americans that wouldn't have died if we hadn't went to war.

Trillions of dollars blown.

Americans stripped of rights/liberties/freedoms.

The Taliban has received more recruitment tools thanks to resentment of occupation, several cases of poor conduct from US soldiers/mercenaries, and martyrdom of their fallen leaders who, according to their propaganda, are chilling in heaven with 72 virgins serving to them for all eternity.

So who's really winning here?

Would the revolutions in the Middle East have spread through Iraq and Afghanistan without America biting on the war on terrorism, freeing them without costing us so many lives and so much money prying into someone else's affairs?


This is the question. Not whether we should be fighting them.


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You're right, my bad. I meant casualties, 50,000 casualties. Only 9,000 Americans have died, sorry.

Although if we counted Iraqi/Afghan civilians we'd likely be well over 100,000 killed altogether, but those don't count.


Too many of course. But we're now down to less than 1/10th your original claim. Gotta wonder about people who are prepared to play around with US wardead figures to further some appeasement agenda.

Why would you count Iraqi/Afghan civilians amongst US wardead?


Actually it's 1/5th, those numbers only seem to account for the soldiers and not civilians and non-combatants.

I did say I made a mistake however, noting it was 50,000 casualties, not deaths.

And I agree that even if it were just 1/10th, it would still be far to much.

And I didn't count the Iraqi/Afghan people in the American wardead, they're just innocents killed in our war. I did say they don't count though, because they aren't Americans, which is all that matters.


I'm not going to quibble about numbers.

Killed by al-Qaeda in al-Qaeda's/sponsor states' war. I don't have time for any games. Let's just agree to disagree.

I see...


I gtg for now, but I look forward to tomorrow SM.


Wait! I thought it was al qaeda that "attacked us" and not the taliban.

The taliban are not terrorists -- just a really shitty government.


So using children as suicide bombers to massacre Afghan civilians is not terrorism? You're a headcase LIFTI.


Oh now Lifti's not a headcase. He just hasn't been able to face the real world yet. He'll get there.


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Ok, I'll agree to say tabiban are terrorists if you agree that they think the US military is also terrorists.

Perspective is everything.


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Excellent question , to look at it differently they have lost for less than we on many fronts


Well, the Taliban do not go to other countries and commit violent acts to effect regime change.

There comes a point when one has to realize that the reason one is scared by the whole world is not that it is chock full of terrorists, but because one happens to be a pussy.




Really? We killed Mullah Omar?

News to me.