The rest of the world (including Canada) is very fucking lucky that a generous, kind-hearted nation of people inherited the mantle of world leadership from Britain, in 1945. Imagine a world where Nazi Germany or soviet Russia inherited that mantle. Do you think they’d spend 2 billion $ (in 1947 btw) to rebuild Europe? And then these countries became a bunch of damn ingrates!! All we ask, like President Bush did at the UN, was that they have some goddamn balls, and they hid their heads in the sand. It galls me that our guys have to die to protect these shit-eaters while protecting us. End of fucking story!
Guys, the US is indeed a fine country.
However, the self-worship of your leadership, your founding fathers or your stature as a nation is similar to mythology.
The administration can do no wrong. The president is the leader of the free world. The US leads in everything. Blah blah blah. You’ve bought all this happy bullshit hook, line and sinker.
It’s partriotic feel-good pap that you are fed by your politicians all the time. It makes you feel good, it makes you feel proud. And, besides, we all know how politicians are never self-serving folks who’d do or say anything to win a vote.
Anyway, not sure if you can tell the difference, but I’m not saying anything at all bad about the US, just the unjustified blind worship of it and it’s institutions. There are many Canadians who feel the same way about Canada as you do about your country. They are also patrio-fanatics.
Patriotism, in some respects, is another “ism”. It’s a knee-jerk way of looking at things that has you drawing conclusions without having to think. It’s easy and it feels good.
There are a huge number of people that think they are in the best city, the best country, the best school, the best company to work for, the best fitness program, the right religion, listen to the best radio station or whatever all around the world.
I think the emperor is wearing no clothes…
And then these countries became a bunch of damn ingrates!! All we ask, like President Bush did at the UN, was that they have some goddamn balls, and they hid their heads in the sand. It galls me that our guys have to die to protect these shit-eaters while protecting us. End of fucking story!
Oh please, ingrates? The rest of the world should now worship the US as it’s own citizens do? What exactly is it that you would expect… the entire world follows the lead… oh yes, that would be the “leader of the free world” thing again. Sigh.
By the way, you do a great disservice to those dying in Iraq or Afghanistan that are not Americans. How quickly you forget the allies you do have. And since when did allies ever have to agree on everything. Fucking lunacy.
Man, you guys have done it now… everything was going okay with your rants and your not listening to each other, but then you HAD to mention Canada (oh, look out, that’s one country you don’t want to piss off. LOL)
You’re ALL right in that this is a GREAT country and there is much to be proud of. I believe that vroom is correct in that what we deem to be “the greatest” is really subjective (Ali excepted of course). It’s important to realize that the terrorist-supporting countries feel that they are the greatest because they put their God first, and support the destruction of the west.
Jeffr, I’m not sure if this is taught here or not, but the US waited literally YEARS before really getting involved in each of the world wars. World history sees this as a mistake, and I think only time will tell about this Iraq confilct.
vroom, who the hell are these patrio-fanatic Canadians you speak of? National pride is non existent in Canada.
Just some commentary, now back to the rants.
What Whoopi did, does matter. As well as so many in Hollywood, music, and the press, have said about this President. Because there is no other country in the world, where one can get away as much as they do. Also why is it that Kerry is absolutely refusing to have that tape released to the public?
And I am sure this Democratic Convention, to be held this coming weeknd, is just going to be another all out hate fest on President Bush. Where people will be bashing Bush left and right. Ahhh…don’t these people realize that all of this negativity can come back in the end and haunt the Democratic party?
Mean Americans will get fed up with the negativity of these campaigns, And all of this Bush bashing, and just how negative it will get in the weeks up till election day? That people will just not vote? Or write in someone elses name?
The point is this, there is no need for this all out Bush Bashing esp by Hollywood and the music industry. For it says allot about our country. It is also doing one other thing. which all of these Bush bashers better stop and realize. They are doing exactly what the terrorists and socialists want. To divide this country even more. Create as much dissession as there can be in this country. To show this country is weak. and vulnerable. And we have a weak President, and a President some in this country have complete and utter disdain for. Playing right into their very little hands. For they do not want the country to know who this enemy actually is. And not to be focused on them. And Hollywood, the muscians, to continue to not know who our enemies are. And to continue to bash Bush even more. And make him out that he is our enemy.
And finally many musicians, Hollywood, and the media, do not realize this is a War on Terrorism we are fighting. And during War times, we must support the troops, and all their efforts. And rally around the flag. And do everything we can, so we can win this War. And the more divded we are, it will be oh so much harfer for us to win it. Especially a enemy like we are fighting today…
Joe
I found on the net this very scary website. Which is not affilaited with any political party. Things which all of these Bush bashers, and harters, in Hollywood, in music, in the press and media, should look at too: For this is very serious… http://jihadwatch.org/
I am going to share with the group just two of these articles…For as this website says: " Because the West is facing a concerted effort by radical Muslims, most of whom are ignored by the Western media, to destroy the West and bring it forcibly into the Islamic world. That effort goes under the general rubric of jihad…"
"On June 29, 2004, at 12:28 p.m., I flew on Northwest Airlines flight #327 from Detroit to Los Angeles with my husband and our young son. Also on our flight were 14 Middle Eastern men between the ages of approximately 20 and 50 years old. What I experienced during that flight has caused me to question whether the United States of America can realistically uphold the civil liberties of every individual, even non-citizens, and protect its citizens from terrorist threats.
On that Tuesday, our journey began uneventfully. Starting out that morning in Providence, Rhode Island, we went through security screening, flew to Detroit, and passed the time waiting for our connecting flight to Los Angeles by shopping at the airport stores and eating lunch at an airport diner. With no second security check required in Detroit we headed to our gate and waited for the pre-boarding announcement. Standing near us, also waiting to pre-board, was a group of six Middle Eastern men. They were carrying blue passports with Arabic writing. Two men wore tracksuits with Arabic writing across the back. Two carried musical instrument cases - thin, flat, 18 long. One wore a yellow T-shirt and held a McDonald’s bag. And the sixth man had a bad leg – he wore an orthopedic shoe and limped. When the pre-boarding announcement was made, we handed our tickets to the Northwest Airlines agent, and walked down the jetway with the group of men directly behind us.
My four-year-old son was determined to wheel his carry-on bag himself, so I turned to the men behind me and said, You go ahead, this could be awhile. No, you go ahead, one of the men replied. He smiled pleasantly and extended his arm for me to pass. He was young, maybe late 20’s and had a goatee. I thanked him and we boarded the plan.
Once on the plane, we took our seats in coach (seats 17A, 17B and 17C). The man with the yellow shirt and the McDonald’s bag sat across the aisle from us (in seat 17E). The pleasant man with the goatee sat a few rows back and across the aisle from us (in seat 21E). The rest of the men were seated throughout the plane, and several made their way to the back.
As we sat waiting for the plane to finish boarding, we noticed another large group of Middle Eastern men boarding. The first man wore a dark suit and sunglasses. He sat in first class in seat 1A, the seat second-closet to the cockpit door. The other seven men walked into the coach cabin. As aware Americans, my husband and I exchanged glances, and then continued to get comfortable. I noticed some of the other passengers paying attention to the situation as well. As boarding continued, we watched as, one by one, most of the Middle Eastern men made eye contact with each other. They continued to look at each other and nod, as if they were all in agreement about something. I could tell that my husband was beginning to feel anxious.
The take-off was uneventful. But once we were in the air and the seatbelt sign was turned off, the unusual activity began. The man in the yellow T-shirt got out of his seat and went to the lavatory at the front of coach – taking his full McDonald’s bag with him. When he came out of the lavatory he still had the McDonald’s bag, but it was now almost empty. He walked down the aisle to the back of the plane, still holding the bag. When he passed two of the men sitting mid-cabin, he gave a thumbs-up sign. When he returned to his seat, he no longer had the McDonald’s bag.
Then another man from the group stood up and took something from his carry-on in the overhead bin. It was about a foot long and was rolled in cloth. He headed toward the back of the cabin with the object. Five minutes later, several more of the Middle Eastern men began using the forward lavatory consecutively. In the back, several of the men stood up and used the back lavatory consecutively as well.
For the next hour, the men congregated in groups of two and three at the back of the plane for varying periods of time. Meanwhile, in the first class cabin, just a foot or so from the cockpit door, the man with the dark suit - still wearing sunglasses - was also standing. Not one of the flight crew members suggested that any of these men take their seats.
Watching all of this, my husband was now beyond anxious. I decided to try to reassure my husband (and maybe myself) by walking to the back bathroom. I knew the goateed-man I had exchanged friendly words with as we boarded the plane was seated only a few rows back, so I thought I would say hello to the man to get some reassurance that everything was fine. As I stood up and turned around, I glanced in his direction and we made eye contact. I threw out my friendliest remember-me-we-had-a-nice-exchange-just-a-short-time-ago smile. The man did not smile back. His face did not move. In fact, the cold, defiant look he gave me sent shivers down my spine.
When I returned to my seat I was unable to assure my husband that all was well. My husband immediately walked to the first class section to talk with the flight attendant. I might be overreacting, but I’ve been watching some really suspicious things… Before he could finish his statement, the flight attendant pulled him into the galley. In a quiet voice she explained that they were all concerned about what was going on. The captain was aware. The flight attendants were passing notes to each other. She said that there were people on board higher up than you and me watching the men. My husband returned to his seat and relayed this information to me. He was feeling slightly better. I was feeling much worse. We were now two hours into a four-in-a-half hour flight.
Approximately 10 minutes later, that same flight attendant came by with the drinks cart. She leaned over and quietly told my husband there were federal air marshals sitting all around us. She asked him not to tell anyone and explained that she could be in trouble for giving out that information. She then continued serving drinks.
About 20 minutes later the same flight attendant returned. Leaning over and whispering, she asked my husband to write a description of the yellow-shirted man sitting across from us. She explained it would look too suspicious if she wrote the information. She asked my husband to slip the note to her when he was done.
After seeing 14 Middle Eastern men board separately (six together, eight individually) and then act as a group, watching their unusual glances, observing their bizarre bathroom activities, watching them congregate in small groups, knowing that the flight attendants and the pilots were seriously concerned, and now knowing that federal air marshals were on board, I was officially terrified… Before I’m labeled a racial profiler or – worse yet – a racist, let me add this. A month ago I traveled to India to research a magazine article I was writing. My husband and I flew on a jumbo jet carrying more than 300 Hindu and Muslim men and women on board. We traveled throughout the country and stayed in a Muslim village 10 miles outside Pakistan. I never once felt fearful. I never once felt unsafe. I never once had the feeling that anyone wanted to hurt me. This time was different.
Finally, the captain announced that the plane was cleared for landing. It had been four hours since we left Detroit. The fasten seat belt light came on and I could see downtown Los Angeles. The flight attendants made one final sweep of the cabin and strapped themselves in for landing. I began to relax. Home was in sight.
Suddenly, seven of the men stood up – in unison – and walked to the front and back lavatories. One by one, they went into the two lavatories, each spending about four minutes inside. Right in front of us, two men stood up against the emergency exit door, waiting for the lavatory to become available. The men spoke in Arabic among themselves and to the man in the yellow shirt sitting nearby. One of the men took his camera into the lavatory. Another took his cell phone. Again, no one approached the men. Not one of the flight attendants asked them to sit down. I watched as the man in the yellow shirt, still in his seat, reached inside his shirt and pulled out a small red book. He read a few pages, then put the book back inside his shirt. He pulled the book out again, read a page or two more, and put it back. He continued to do this several more times.
I looked around to see if any other passengers were watching. I immediately spotted a distraught couple seated two rows back. The woman was crying into the man’s shoulder. He was holding her hand. I heard him say to her, You’ve got to calm down. Behind them sat the once pleasant-smiling, goatee-wearing man.
I grabbed my son, I held my husband’s hand and, despite the fact that I am not a particularly religious person, I prayed. The last man came out of the bathroom, and as he passed the man in the yellow shirt he ran his forefinger across his neck and mouthed the word No.
The plane landed. My husband and I gathered our bags and quickly, very quickly, walked up the jetway. As we exited the jetway and entered the airport, we saw many, many men in dark suits. A few yards further out into the terminal, LAPD agents ran past us, heading for the gate. I have since learned that the representatives of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD), the Federal Air Marshals (FAM), and the Transportation Security Association (TSA) met our plane as it landed. Several men – who I presume were the federal air marshals on board – hurried off the plane and directed the 14 men over to the side.
Knowing what we knew, and seeing what we’d seen, my husband and I decided to talk to the authorities. For several hours my husband and I were interrogated by the FBI. We gave sworn statement after sworn statement. We wrote down every detail of our account. The interrogators seemed especially interested in the McDonald’s bag, so we repeated in detail what we knew about the McDonald’s bag. A law enforcement official stood near us, holding 14 Syrian passports in his hand. We answered more questions. And finally we went home."
Or just read about Al Queda and nuclear weapons, or about how in Madrid, it is teeming with 100 Al Queda cells. The number one hotbed for terrorism in Europe. It spells it out in jihadwatch.org…
This is why both Candidates, must get VERY serious, as well as Hollywood, music, press and media, and make the War on Terror the number 1 issue. Stop this bickering, and bashing. For just like 9/11. All of this did not happen overnight. It took several yrs. And we were caught napping in regards to 9/11. So HOPEFULLY we can get very serious, and remain awake this time. And not let another 9/11 occur…
Joe
Okay Chicken Little, I’m sure everyone will get right on that because you say so.
Was there actually a point to your story? If so, maybe you could post it for us…
vroom…You are trying my patience big time!! No this is NOT me playing chicken little or someone crying wolf.,This is very very serious stuff…More serious then you could imagine…
BUT if you think that all that this website: http://jihadwatch.org/ Is a bunch of hogwatch, or that Al Queda is not as big as a threat as so many say they are. Or what the plans are of Al Queda and Osama Bin Laden, in reagrds to the “Jihad” against America, Or we must make this war on terrorism our number one priority, and must unite, then I like for you to enlighten me. Please show me the websites, articles, etc. or the proof, that I can go to, that none of this is true. That this was all made up, to bring people to the side of Bush. Or to have Bush reelected. And there is no need to know who our enemy is. For our enemy is really Bush…
Joe
Here is something to think about, a little off the subject, but relevant. Did you pay attention to CNN this week? I’m not sure if it was a the House or the Senate, But some Democrats put forth a bill to have the UN monitor our election in November. Thankfully it was voted down. The voting was primarily along party lines.
CHILLING!!
Here is something to think about, a little off the subject, but relevant. Did you pay attention to CNN this week? I’m not sure if it was a the House or the Senate, But some Democrats put forth a bill to have the UN monitor our election in November. Thankfully it was voted down. The voting was primarily along party lines.
CHILLING!!
Joe, without getting into whether or not everyone agrees with the actions, two entire countries have been remodelled just recently.
If, and I hope it does NOT happen, but if another terrorist attack on America is successful I’m sure there will be another period of very united thinking and voting.
Honestly, I doubt it matters the least who is in power if such a thing happens.
As for Al Queda, pretty well everyone is aware they are very bad people who have very bad intentions for all of us infidels. You think this is news?
Vroom,
“Do you honestly think these people would have given a shit about the US, as far away as it is from their lives, if it wasn’t something that was rubbed into their noses over the years by their media (due to being involved in affairs in the region)?”
Yes, of course they would. The jihad movement has an agenda to return the world to an equivalent to a 10th century caliphate. They are wannabe conquerors. So long as our country stands in defiance of their theocratic regimes as infidels - just by existing - they’ll want to destroy us. The Islamofascists of the world don’t operate by a “live and let live” philosophy of “you do it your way on your side of the world and we’ll do it our way on our side of the world, and everything will be fine”. They believe in the absolutism of their worldview.
I think that’s probably the most overlooked point of all. Modern liberals believe that if we would just stop meddling, the Islamic world would be content to go about their business and leave the West alone in a mutual respect arrangement. But this touchy-feely multiculturalism is an illusion. It doesn’t exist within Islamic fundamentalism. What they want is dominance and conversion.
“The question I have is whether or not the Jihad training material you state is what the leaders believe or instead merely what they use to brainwash followers?”
What difference does it make?
“The administration can do no wrong. The president is the leader of the free world. The US leads in everything. Blah blah blah. You’ve bought all this happy bullshit hook, line and sinker.”
This is utter nonsense.
“Patriotism, in some respects, is another “ism”. It’s a knee-jerk way of looking at things that has you drawing conclusions without having to think. It’s easy and it feels good.”
Hmmm. I disagree. Patriotism is an appreciation for a cause higher than yourself. I can’t see how patriotism ‘has you drawing conclusions without having to think’ since some of our most patriotic historical figures were voices of dissent, including the Founding Fathers themselves.
T"here are a huge number of people that think they are in the best city, the best country, the best school, the best company to work for, the best fitness program, the right religion, listen to the best radio station or whatever all around the world.
Let me guess, Vroom: there are no better or worse ideas or things, just different?
vroom: What I posted to you, had nothing about you agreeing or disagreeing with me, or anything I said. Why I said what I did, was you called me chicken little. Or the boy crying wolf. And like to know why you did? And you give me the reasons why you said you did, but also please back up what you say. With direct websites, quotes, articles etc. For I want to see proof, as to why you are saying what you did.
And as far as what you said about Al Queda?, " So this is news? " Let me go back in History. There was a man in a country overseas. Who everyone thought, he was funny looking cause of his mustache. He wrote a book called, Mein Kampf. And when word of it got out the USA, banned the book from being read or sold in the USA. He came to power. ANd people kept saying lets appease this man. If we give him, all he wants, then, maybe he will be satisfied. But he did not stop there. He wanted more, and he had a plan. He wanted to conquer the world. But since no one really looked into who this man who he really was, or his intentions, by banning Mein Kampf. We never understood the inner psyche, of what he was planning to do. Or what he was cabable of doing. And look at all this man, Adolf Hitler did. And just think if we did investiagte, or the American Governemnt told us, who this man really was. Or what his intentions were? Or let the American people read Mein Kampf.
ANd you might be saying oh that happened what, 60 some years ago. And that is in the past. And is not revelant. But if you look at the way the world handled Hitler with kid gloves. And appeased him. And you look at Osama Bin Laden, and AL Queda. Ahh we cannot let history, repeat itself. For we must learn from our mistakes, we made in History…
Joe
Chuckmanjoe
The Whoopi Goldberg jokes really twisted your panties, huh? Get a sense of humor, buddy, they were JOKES.
Besides the Hollywood Commies who ‘hate Bush’ you can add Waylon Jennings and Dale Earnhardt Jr. to the list. Waylon has an anti-Bush song on his latest album. Dale Earnhardt Jr. had his entire race team attend Fahrenheit 9-11, as a “bonding” experience.
The 911 commission is going to release their report this week, saying we are only slightly more prepared for a terrorist attck today, more than 3 years after 9-11. Bush is NOT keeping us safer. Some of us are blasting Bush not based on partisan rhetoric, but because he is NOT doing a good job!!!
Keep your head in the sand guys, I’m sure it’s easier for you to stay in denial.
Yes, of course they would. The jihad movement has an agenda to return the world to an equivalent to a 10th century caliphate. They are wannabe conquerors. So long as our country stands in defiance of their theocratic regimes as infidels - just by existing - they’ll want to destroy us. The Islamofascists of the world don’t operate by a “live and let live” philosophy of “you do it your way on your side of the world and we’ll do it our way on our side of the world, and everything will be fine”. They believe in the absolutism of their worldview.
Thunder, you are talking about a fringe fanatic element. I am talking about how to minimize the ease with which the fringe can recruit new members to their viewpoint. If they step out of their own land and attempt to impose their views on others – then by all means repel them. Focusing only on their current thinking and ignoring why they ended up thinking that way is not going to be productive either.
Unless we’re going to wipe islamicism of the face of the earth, we’re going to have to eventually stop pissing off islamic people – or we’ll have endless folks engaging in their stupid Jihad. Particularly, getting their top clerics to “outlaw” a Jihad would be a good move.
Let me guess, Vroom: there are no better or worse ideas or things, just different?
Not at all Thunder. However, whatever measure of “best” you pick, only one can actually be “best”. By this observation alone, nearly everybody is always wrong about being in the “best” of whatever it is they think they are in. Of course, everyone assumes it is they that are right, or their religion is right and so on.
I am against anything that does a person’s thinking for them. This is my concern with “ism’s” in general. They are a shortcut or crutch relied upon or used to gloss over actual thought and consideration far too often. That is a worse thing than actually paying attention to things, thinking about them and coming to a reasonable conclusion on a topic.
By no means am I some touchy-feely pacifist who just wants everyone to love one another. That is so insulting and it is thrown at liberals all the time. Perhaps some do really think that way, but I don’t really know any that do.
I’m looking forward towards the end game. We all live on a small world. It would be nice if we could minimize wars and senseless acts of terrorism. Paying attention to world affairs and not simply sneering at any country which isn’t your own might be a start.
Whether or not the US point of view is “right”… there are billions of people on the planet. This is simply reality.
[quote]Lumpy wrote:
Besides the Hollywood Commies who ‘hate Bush’ you can add Waylon Jennings and Dale Earnhardt Jr. to the list. Waylon has an anti-Bush song on his latest album…
[/quote]
er…Waylon has been dead for like a year, dude.
Well Chicken Little, a lot of crackpots make books. A lot of crackpots make dire predictions about the future too…
How the hell are we supposed to know which crackpots with the doomsday signs are right?
So far, we all agree Al Queda is bad and that Osama should be caught. We all think terrorism should be fought.
Relax, we can bitch about it and argue all day, but the president will be the guy calling the shots.
Even if the current one doesn’t seem too bright. Will he get a second term? Stay tuned, the election isn’t far away.
Oops, I screwed up. I was thinking of Merle Haggard.
Vroom,
“Thunder, you are talking about a fringe fanatic element. I am talking about how to minimize the ease with which the fringe can recruit new members to their viewpoint.”
The two are not as separate as you suggest. Muslim cultures breed opportunities for fanaticism, even absent Western ‘imperalism’. All of this smokescreen about the US ‘creating’ more terrorists is hooey - Muslim cultures have generated fanatics for centuries. The same comments I’m making now were made at the turn of the century about Sudan.
It should not be US policy to agitate disaffected Muslims, I agree. But the US can’t tiptoe around the sensitivities of the Arab street in all it does for fear that the terrorists will recruit more troops. The US could send C-130s full of crisp dollar bills to Muslim countries in an effort to help them out (and we do), and they would rage against us for trying to hegemonize their culture by buying them off with Western money. What you need to realize is this: the brutal Islamic fundamentalism that plagues the world is not a function of without, it is a function of within. It’s not the fault of US bullying or arrogance, it’s the fault of a broken, barbarian culture that refuses to modernize.
“Unless we’re going to wipe islamicism of the face of the earth, we’re going to have to eventually stop pissing off islamic people…”
Do tell - how exactly do we piss off Islamic peoples? By liberating millions from tyranny? By sending aid packages in the billions of dollars? By expending American blood and treasure protecting Muslims from slaughter in the Balkans?
“Paying attention to world affairs and not simply sneering at any country which isn’t your own might be a start.”
This is a common and false charge. We not only pay attention to world affairs, we essentially run them. We have for the better part of 50 years. Again, there is the inferiority complex. Who cares if the US sneered at you anyway?
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
…Muslim cultures breed opportunities for fanaticism, even absent Western ‘imperalism’. All of this smokescreen about the US ‘creating’ more terrorists is hooey - Muslim cultures have generated fanatics for centuries. [/quote]
Oh come on! Stop tapdancing. Al Qaeda recruitment has gone way UP, and it’s up because we have US troops occupying the 2nd most holy lands in Islamic culture (Iraq)
[quote]
…Do tell - how exactly do we piss off Islamic peoples? By liberating millions from tyranny? By sending aid packages in the billions of dollars? By expending American blood and treasure protecting Muslims from slaughter in the Balkans?[/quote]
By setting up permanent military bases in Saudi Arabia, for example (during the first Gulf War). By appearing to favor Israel over Palestine. And so on.
Right on.