No, this isn’t about Bill and Monica smoking cigars in OUR oval office. This is about the 2 Johns – one, married to a billionaire, says he’s going to raise taxes on himself and his rich buddies (sure you are!). Another is a slick, handsome, southern lawyer (who’s that sound like?). Kerry publicly said that the vile vomit spewed at that fundraiser by Whoopi and her gang ‘represents the heart and soul of America’ or something like that. So, either this is Kerry’s philosophy, or he’s a liar. In either case, he immediately disqualifies himself as a candidate.
If you guys have teenagers, you know that you have to remind them to ‘flush the goddamn toilet’! This November, let’s remember to flush the goddamn toilet.
[quote]peartmath wrote:
This November, let’s remember to flush the goddamn toilet.[/quote]
Good call. Let’s flush that fucking turd who lives there now, hopefully him and all his brown corn buddies won’t leave too big of a skid mark on the way out!
peartmath,
I heard they had to take a fire hose to the White House after Clinton left. Talk about disgracing the oval office. The very room where President Ronald Reagen would not even take off his suit coat in became a place where Clinton convinced a 21 year old intern to give him oral sex. That was a sweet example for our countrys youth!
Hahahahaha… you heard did you? I don’t suppose that would be a completely partisan statement?
Also, how do you know that it went down as you state?
I mean, unless you have access to more information than the rest of us, perhaps a 21 year old had the ability to make up her own mind about what she did or did not want.
Yeah… she wanted a stain on her dress!
Its alright. The audio tape of this little hate fest is in the right hands now…its only a matter of time until this issue blows up in John-Johns face.
Dick Cheney tells a member of the senate to “FUCK OFF” and the poor old boy is just letting off steam!
Whoopi a friggin comedian for crying out loud says some profane jokes at a democratic rally and its the end for Kerry! How pathetic.
clearly you missed the point where Kerry and Edwards get up and say “this is the heart and soul of america, right here” Some how I think its not.
For about half the country I would say it is.
Christ, here we go. My heart bleeds for you and half of America.
What? Are the right-wingers going to cry because someone said something they didn’t like? Hypocritical control freaks…
Two simple points:
Firstly, I do not hold John Kerry responsible for what Whoopi Goldberg says. No, he did not publically disagree with her at the fund raiser as he should have, but again these people are his bread and butter. Hollywood is basically full of scum. They choose to support the democratic ticket year after year. This is not news. It would have been news had Kerry rebuked her that night.
Secondly, Vroom it matters not whether Clinton convinced her, or she simply jumped on his lap one day and took command. It was wrong! Every part of it was wrong. Can you understand that, or have you rationalized it?
Zeb, of course it was wrong… he cheated on his wife.
Generally, I don’t care what two consenting adults do, but to characterize it as taking advantage of someone is also wrong, unless that is what actually happened.
Plenty of people engage in sexual acts at inappropriate times or places. Is it wrong for these other people too, or do you apply special rules to administration officials? There is no evidence that sex interferes with job performance or decision making skills in the general populace.
However, I will not argue that you can use this to determine that perhaps Clinton used poor judgement or had poor self-control, which might mean you would not want him for president. It might also mean nothing. It was wrong, but it was simply a human failing. No more and no less.
Maybe conservatives should start new task force to probe into the sex lives of everyone on the planet to make sure they are conducting themselves in an appropriate way at all times? Then we could send the military into bedrooms around the world whenever subversive activity was detected.
Vroom,
I never characterized it as Clintion taking advantage, as you claim. I originally stated that “Clinton convinced a 21 year old intern to have oral sex with him.” Perhaps it did not take much convincing, you and I will never know!
If you were not so partisan you would not rationalize Clintons act as being merely “human failing.” I think most mistakes that people make can be attributed to that, if you wanted to soft peddle it, as you do!
It was more than one man cheating on his wife. It was the leader of the free world using the oval office for these purposes. It was the President of the United States harming himself, and the office he held!
I think Clinton did many good things in office. Who knows the good that he could have done had this not distracted him and the entire country for so long? Lost opportunity never regained.
Try to look at things, not as a liberal, but as an American!
[quote]vroom wrote:
What? Are the right-wingers going to cry because someone said something they didn’t like? Hypocritical control freaks…[/quote]
Vroom -
It’s not that our ‘feelings got hurt’ because of what whoopi, et al said at a gathering of left wing freaks and wierdos.
Kerry is running for the position of leader of the free world. One of the big campaign issues this years is terrorism. Kerry is running as a candidate that you should trust over and above anyone else in the race - namely G-dub.
When presented with the options of either acting presidential and getting briefed on the current terror situation, or going to the freak and wierdo fest - Kerry chose the latter.
Kerry would rather sit and listen to Whoopi run her mouth-o-trash, than to actually take his candidacy seriously.
Does that ‘hurt my feelings’? Nope Does it bother me that whoopi and her gang of misfits are so vitriolic in there dislike of the current administration? Not as much as it bothers me that Kerry was there nodding and laughing in approval. And then to equate these people as the heart of america (or whatever he said)?
I’m really looking forward to next week - the convention should just about seal Kerry’s fate. It’s a wonder the Fleet Center doesn’t tip over, what with everyone leanng so far to the left in there.
Vroom, - "What? Are the right-wingers going to cry because someone said something they didn’t like? Hypocritical control freaks… "
Good one there buddy, I see you’re point. What a great debater (or even Masterdebater) you are indeed!
Vegita ~ Prince of all Sayajins
Hello vroom/vegita,
I haven’t had the pleasure of writing to you lately. I just wanted to point out some of the inherent differences between the thought processes of a Conservative and a liberal.
The Bill/Monica situation is very enlightening.
A liberal says the investigation into Clinton’s affair was “a vast right wing consipiracy that uncovered a consenting sexual relationship between two adults.” They will character assassinate Ken Starr and anyone else involved as being partisan and out to get poor, old, Bill.
A Conservative will look at this situation and see many interconnected levels of malice. First, the investigation into the affair sprung directly out of Paula Jones’ suit alleging sexual harrassment by Governor Clinton. A Conservative realizes that in sexual crimes, the perpetrator usually has a long, consistent history of similar offenses. A Conservative would have no trouble moving from point A (Paula Jones) to Point B (Monica and God knows who else.) Discerning whether there is a pattern of sexual misconduct would be entirely consistent with normal investigative procedures. A Conservative would look at the age of the persons involved 21 and 50+ and the power differential between the two and become suspicious. For example, can anyone name a larger power differential than the one that exists between a White House Intern and the President of the United States? A Conservative would wonder at the hypocrisy of persons defending Bill (National Organization of Women, vroom, lumpy, etc…) and the same groups’ outrage at Clarence Thomas’ alleged behavior.
A liberal would say that lying under oath “about a sexual encounter” should be dismissed as a white lie. “Hey, it’s not like he lied about murder.”
A Conservative would look at lying under oath by the Chief Officer for Enforcing Laws as about as serious offense as there can be. A Conservative would say that Paula Jones’ ability to a fair trial is being hindered by perjury. A Conservative would become very nervous about some people’s attempt to rationalize lying. If sexually predatory behavior cannot be investigated effectively, which crime is the next to be rationalized away? If he lies under oath, pressures his subordinates to lie, and uses public funds for his piccadillos, what else is he capable of? What else does he lie about? Is it really OK that Paula Jones is slandered and Bill Clinton wears his impeachemnt like " a badge of honor?"
I want people like vegita, lumpy, and vroom to know that there is a segment of the population who are motivated and intelligent enough to see through the political smokescreens.
Please allow me a little poltical fantasy here. Imagine that I was sitting across from paulbegala or jamescarville every night on Crossfire. The physical contrast between those two and me (bodybuilder) couldn’t be more stark. The first time they interrupted me, I’d slam my fist on the table and say with a smile, “Don’t interrupt me again.” The next time they tried that, I’d stand, and politely ask them to follow me backstage for a discussion.
When the the opposition tried their little tag lines, I would dissect their statements to the nth degree. For example, “Halliburton got the contracts in Iraq so Cheney could make money.” I would challenge them to provide one shred of evidence beyond innudendo. I wouldn’t let go of it. When their falsehoods were exposed I wouldn’t allow them to change the subject until I had made them look completely foolish.
Throughout the programs, I would smile and laugh often. Doesn’t it delight the imagination?
JeffR
Jeff et al,
You are just as biased and slanted in your own thinking.
Jeff, you are simply speculating. You might be right. However, as the conservatives are quick to point out, speculation means nothing – otherwise Bush would be guilty of a million crimes and conspiracies by now. You mischaracterize liberals by claiming they would want to sidestep the serious issues (“conspiracy theories” until proven) that you bring up!
Zeb, the fact you “idolize” the oval office and the presidency is your issue. Of course, people blow their nose in the white house and take a shit from time to time to. I guess they probably don’t shit in the oval office, since they have bathrooms nearby I’d imagine. The president is a man and if people wish to imagine him as some trumped up god, it is their own fault if they have this image shattered from time to time.
Veg, just trying to point out some hypocrisy. I’m tired of always reading that liberals are hypocrites when the conservatives speak out of both sides of their mouths also.
Rainjack, if you weren’t biased you’d imagine that reasonably thinking people could decide that during an election year perhaps someone who isn’t called upon to make snap decisions can bypass some briefings. It isn’t really a big deal unless you are hearing it from the conservative point of view. Do you honestly believe it indicates that Kerry would ignore issues of import if he was president? I think that would be a very foolish conclusion to make, but a great political point to try and make – it will probably convince some stupid people.
Show me more mistakes by Clinton, or PROOF of other wrongdoings – as opposed to conjecture (use the same level of proof you defend Bush with) – and I’ll be glad to condemn Clinton for the action. It isn’t all politics gents.
Oh yes, news flash, Clinton isn’t running for president… 
Boy, I didn’t realize the GOP was such a bunch of thin-skinned sensitive crybabies.
You know what Whoopi’s big “Hate Fest” was?
A bunch of jokes about the name BUSH.
“What do you expect with a Dick and a Bush in the White House”, and that type of thing.
As far as Clinton (going off topic, guys, get over Clinton already) Ken Starr wasted 80 million dollars in taxpayer’s money, investigating Whitewater. When he came up empty handed, he went after Clinton based on sexual misconduct claims of Gennifer Flowers (paid 150,000 dollars for telling her story to a tabloid- think that had anything to do with it?) and Paula Jones (who claimed Clinton tried to seduce her by -his big seduction tactic- dropping his pants… totally unbelievable). If you think Paula Jones is credible, check out her spread in Penthouse, and get back to me.
As far as Lewinsky, yes Clinton screwed up. However other Presidents have had affairs before, and were left alone. It was considered a personal matter.
Look at the people in Congress who pointed their finger at Clinton and used the affair for partisan political purposes… in many cases these men have cheated on their own wives and are hypocrites.
Yes, Clinton lied under oath about his affair, and that is what he is busted for. If you think his affair was damaging to the country, it doesn’t hold a candle to the Republicans making his deposition public, where we had to learn the sordid details. If they had any concerns about decency they would not have made his testimony public. I thought it was sick that they made that testimony public.
But guess what? Clinton was such a good president that nobody cared enough to force him out of office, for having sexual relations with that woman, or lying about it.
Just curious, why won’t George Bush testify under oath in front of the 9-11 commission, or in front of the inteeligence committee on the WMD fiasco, or in front of the prosecuter investigationg the felony of leaking the name of a CIA operative to the press? Bush never wants to testify under oath. Odd…
Vroom,
Wow, what an inappropriate conclusion you have reached. I never said Presidents were “Gods.” My only point is that when you are the leader of the free world you maybe ought to act appropriately and not tie up your entire administration in a sex scandal for two years.