Whole-Body Training vs Splits

Since there is not a linear return on growth or strength gained when more and more work is done, it is finding that sweet spot for you. I still don’t understand why people get so defensive when this comes up. I also don’t know why even if a body part is severely challenged one day, why very shortly thereafter a few sets with less load can’t be done.

If you spend 8-10x more time in the gym for a marginal return on your effort, is it worth it? It still could be yes. If that floats your boat, then I’m happy for you.

A whole body routine done 3x per week does not have to be the same exact exercises. Vertical pulling is not the same as horizontal pulling and can be separated in a different day. Same with horizontal pressing and vertical pressing. Hip or knee dominant is different but similar.

I did incline presses with a high percentage of the max for the rep range I am currently using yesterday. I still did a few reps for a few sets with about 70% of that top end load. Nothing taxing

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Whole body training is done training movements or planes of motion while bodypart training trains muscles. [/quote]

Says who? I’m training multiple bodyparts per day right now and definitely giving primary focus to MMC and isolation work and all that jazz. Definitely not splitting up in terms of movements, or planes of motion…still by bodypart. [/quote]

Because WBT every session means all the muscles are worked every workout. What you are describing that you are doing is not WBT.

So you do:
Chest,shoulders,triceps,back, bi’s,forearms,lats,traps,abs,quads,hamstrings and calves every workout and doing isolation workout per muscles as well?

Or you could do:
Incline press 7x5 varying grips
High pulls 8x3
ATG squats 5x10

Next work out
OHP 4x15
Deadlifts 8x3
Front sqauts 5x5

Another workout:
Bench press 10x3
Cleans 7x3
Quarter squats(really heavy) 4x10

This is done M-W-F
Throw in conditioning after the lifts or on tuesdays and saturdays.

On saturday do some pullups,B.curls and pushdowns all say 3x10

This is one of the programs I use to get people very strong. Then it is just a matter of dialing in their diet to match their goals of what they want to attain.

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Whole body training is done training movements or planes of motion while bodypart training trains muscles. [/quote]

Says who? I’m training multiple bodyparts per day right now and definitely giving primary focus to MMC and isolation work and all that jazz. Definitely not splitting up in terms of movements, or planes of motion…still by bodypart. [/quote]

Because WBT every session means all the muscles are worked every workout. What you are describing that you are doing is not WBT.

So you do:
Chest,shoulders,triceps,back, bi’s,forearms,lats,traps,abs,quads,hamstrings and calves every workout and doing isolation workout per muscles as well?
[/quote]

I split up over two days. quads/chest/delts/tris and then hams/back/bis/calves

A push day may entail: leg extensions, smith squats, Db bench press, lateral raises, rear delt flyes, skullcrushers…for example.

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]FISCHER613 wrote:
Whole body training is done training movements or planes of motion while bodypart training trains muscles. [/quote]

Says who? I’m training multiple bodyparts per day right now and definitely giving primary focus to MMC and isolation work and all that jazz. Definitely not splitting up in terms of movements, or planes of motion…still by bodypart. [/quote]

Because WBT every session means all the muscles are worked every workout. What you are describing that you are doing is not WBT.

So you do:
Chest,shoulders,triceps,back, bi’s,forearms,lats,traps,abs,quads,hamstrings and calves every workout and doing isolation workout per muscles as well?
[/quote]

I split up over two days. quads/chest/delts/tris and then hams/back/bis/calves

A push day may entail: leg extensions, smith squats, Db bench press, lateral raises, rear delt flyes, skullcrushers…for example. [/quote]

whole body training is best suited training movements as opposed to individual muscles. obviously you can have assistance work side raises, extensions, curls etc but all good fullbody programs are built around a squat, press and pull. thats why they are generally recommended to beginners, you cant really go wrong on a decent fullbody program for your first few months of lifting.

They both have their pros and cons. In general though, the best and most balanced physiques seem to be built by split training. Full body is great for athleticism and strenght, but you wont be able to give a muscle group the consentrated attention that it would get on a split, so weak points may become an issue. For me it comes down to personal preference as well. Getting a huge pump=fun, being sore=fun(to a point lol) and so it follow that split training=fun:)

The biggest factor is…whatever works for you!

Scientifically you can/should train each body part 2-3 times per week for maximum gains, but individual psychology then needs to be added to the mix:

  1. Some people think they are pushing things harder than they really are. Some people have lower pain tolerances and so will stop sets earlier than most people, even though they have more in the tank. Maybe they are just plain lazy.
  2. What you enjoy more.
  3. Life outside the gym.
  4. Genetics
    etc, etc, etc…

I have seen people get terrible results using a great strength bodybuilding routine only to make fantastic progress doing something less focused on physique. My best example of this was a skinny-fat friend who now has a athletic strong looking physique with a v-taper, abs and great shoulders…when he switched to doing crossfit only!!! His muscles grew like weeds while he dropped body-fat. It should not have been so on paper - but it obviously suited him mentally and so his body followed his minds direction.

What I am trying to say is, you will get more out of routine styles you enjoy.

Pretty simple really:

Bodybuilders train body part splits for maximum Hypertrophy and symmetry of all muscle groups since the training is their sport in a nutshell.

Athletes would be better off training WBT or something very close since weight training is a part of GPP for their sport.

Powerlifters/Oly lifters train movements.

Hows that for a explanation.

Great responses. My thought is that is that if you do splits, then means you have to work out several times a week. I’m assuming the vast majority of us have a certain amount of time that we can spend in the gym. So the time you have, means you have to devote all your time to this type of workout.

I love basketball, the sheer boredom of any other type of conditioning kills me and I can’t stick with it. I have found that a whole body plan, which you work out 3 times a week, means you have to focus on the basics. I made this switch a year ago and I have been amazed at the results. Only doing the basics, working on increasing your strength on these exercises has done wonders. I always thought it was silly, but if you work on increasing your strength on the squat, deadlift, bench, press…and then throw in pulls, pushups, dips, it really works your body. But by only working out three times a week, means I have much more time for other activities with the time that I have. I use this time to play basketball three times a week.

My point is that I don’t know enough to say which is better. But for overall health and mental enjoyment, I go with the full body plan every time.

Has anyone ever tried a hybrid of the two ideas? It seems that the strongest critique of TBT/WBT re: physique goals is that it doesn’t allow for the sort of fine tuning of symmetry and build that a body part split does. What if you hit everything on a 2-4 day a week program either push/pull, upper/lower or true TBT with another day or two set aside for “catch up” work on lagging body parts? I could see something like this being effective

Day 1 -
Upper body:
vertical pull
horizontal push
Lower body:
squat variant

Day 2 -
Conditioning:
sled work

Day 3 -
Upper body:
horizontal pull
vertical push
Lower body:
deadlift variant

Day 4 -
Misc
triceps
biceps
delts

Plenty of variety, everything is covered and it seems like it would capture many of the benefits of both. Obviously if you need more volume/work capacity you could program for a high set/rep scheme, or multiple lifts per area or whatever.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

While it definitely varies person to person, based on needs, history, and other factors, if the goal is simply to get bigger and stronger while staying lean, whole body training can absolutely be an effective option. It’s a matter of proper programming and recovery.

Also, I think it’s a false but common presumption that whole body workouts a.k.a. “full body training” automatically means neglected bodyparts. It doesn’t. For example, several of Waterbury’s “whole body” programs most certainly do include training for the delts, arms, and calves.

Here’s an interesting, if not slightly dated*, roundtable with Chad Waterbury, Alwyn Cosgrove, and Christian Thibaudeau discussing splits.
Training Split Roundtable, Part 1:

Part 2:

    • Dated in the sense that it’s from 2006, and I believe Thibs’ current thoughts on “ideal” training splits may not quite be the same as represented in the articles.[/quote]

Just wanted to point out that you are by far one of the most helpful and kind posters on this site. Whether it is answering the most newb questions possible or just pointing us all to a forgotten article… you do it with respect and well articulated thoughts.

Thank you Chris.

[quote]krazykoukides wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

While it definitely varies person to person, based on needs, history, and other factors, if the goal is simply to get bigger and stronger while staying lean, whole body training can absolutely be an effective option. It’s a matter of proper programming and recovery.

Also, I think it’s a false but common presumption that whole body workouts a.k.a. “full body training” automatically means neglected bodyparts. It doesn’t. For example, several of Waterbury’s “whole body” programs most certainly do include training for the delts, arms, and calves.

Here’s an interesting, if not slightly dated*, roundtable with Chad Waterbury, Alwyn Cosgrove, and Christian Thibaudeau discussing splits.
Training Split Roundtable, Part 1:

Part 2:

    • Dated in the sense that it’s from 2006, and I believe Thibs’ current thoughts on “ideal” training splits may not quite be the same as represented in the articles.[/quote]

Just wanted to point out that you are by far one of the most helpful and kind posters on this site. Whether it is answering the most newb questions possible or just pointing us all to a forgotten article… you do it with respect and well articulated thoughts.

Thank you Chris.
[/quote]

QFT

[quote]Iron_Made wrote:

[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
Just wanted to point out that you are by far one of the most helpful and kind posters on this site. Whether it is answering the most newb questions possible or just pointing us all to a forgotten article… you do it with respect and well articulated thoughts.

Thank you Chris.[/quote]
QFT[/quote]
Well, shoot, thanks guys. Much appreciated.

Really though, all I ever try to do is toss in my two cents. If it’s useful, even better.

Atg410, this is pretty much what i do for myself and clients, depending on goals. routines based on supersets 4 times a week, and body split by torso, and appendage. So we superset legs(squats) and arms(curls) one day, and push(bench) and pull(chins) the next. I’ve had really good luck with this split. once you get used to training this way, your body adjusts. Depending how fast you train, you get conditioning as well.

I agree fully on Chris being a positive poster here, we had it out a while back, but since then I’ve taken more notice of his posts. he offers his time and wisdom freely,we could use more of that around here, and I think I had him pegged wrong!

I think both have their merits. I think the whole body routine is a better approach for beginners though.

I used to switch back and forth a couple of times a year, but as I hit 40, I found that I needed more recovery time than a whole-body routine would permit.

[quote]AnytimeJake wrote:
I agree fully on Chris being a positive poster here, we had it out a while back, but since then I’ve taken more notice of his posts. he offers his time and wisdom freely,we could use more of that around here, and I think I had him pegged wrong![/quote]

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]krazykoukides wrote:
Just wanted to point out that you are by far one of the most helpful and kind posters on this site. Whether it is answering the most newb questions possible or just pointing us all to a forgotten article… you do it with respect and well articulated thoughts.

Thank you Chris.
[/quote]
x2[/quote]

Thanks again, guys. I really do appreciate it.

But geez, I got a “Colucci: How do you train” thread last week and now all these comments. A guy’s gonna develop an inflated ego. Now excuse me, I’m going to go clean the cats’ litter box to maintain perspective. Shoveling shit (even cat shit) = instantly humbled.