T Nation

Whoever Changed His Islamic Religion, Then Kill Him

[quote]AssOnGrass wrote:
Before you know it Saudi Arabia will be the biggest sausage-fest of all time[/quote]

It already is. But more because of immigration than anything else.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
pookie wrote:
If your religion tells you to kill your own kid, shouldn’t you, at some point, ask if maybe something is wrong with it?

All of the big three have been getting away with it for millenniums. I figure people who don’t question the existence of a completely unobservable all-powerful being and still believe in free will shouldn’t exactly be counted on to question authority.

Big three?[/quote]

Judaism, Christianity, Islam. Beowolf is a self-loathing Jew.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Judaism, Christianity, Islam.[/quote]

Wow, I always saw them as being offshoots from the same religion. The common part is that they all claim to be the word of an unknowable (in the traditional sense) God.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
Judaism, Christianity, Islam.

Wow, I always saw them as being offshoots from the same religion. The common part is that they all claim to be the word of an unknowable (in the traditional sense) God.[/quote]

Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. It has to be. Islam claims to be as well. But when you get into the theological weeds, Islam and Christianity don’t agree about Jesus, who Christians believe is God in the flesh.

Basically, Islam teaches that Christians and Jews corrupted their Scriptures to disagree with what Mohammed said because little Mohammed said agreed with the Old or New Testaments.

As far as knowability, Christianity teaches that God is knowable through Scripture because he has revealed himself in Scripture. I’m not sure what Judaism teaches.

See I always thought it was:

Judaism
|
|
Christianity – Islam
|
|
Protestants, Catholics etc.

Or did Islam shoot off Judaism? If it did, it makes the irrational antisemitism present in a lot of the extremists even more retarded.

Don’t all 3 start the same? The point of contention seems to be the New Testament.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
See I always thought it was:

Judaism
|
|
Christianity – Islam
|
|
Protestants, Catholics etc.

Or did Islam shoot off Judaism? If it did, it makes the irrational antisemitism present in a lot of the extremists even more retarded.

Don’t all 3 start the same? The point of contention seems to be the New Testament.[/quote]

Considering Judaism started round about 2000 BC, I don’t see how it could be an offshoot of Islam.

Several of the things Mohammed says about Abraham are nowhere to be found in the Old Testament. Both are at issue.

Mohammed’s narcissistic rage at the Jews began when they rejected him as a prophet, probably because nothing he said agreed with their Scriptures and they recognized him for what he was. This narcissistic rage then became encodified in the Qur’an in the passages I quoted on the other thread.

I think you misunderstood. I was trying to determine whether Islam is a bastard child of Christianity or Judaism.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
I think you misunderstood. I was trying to determine whether Islam is a bastard child of Christianity or Judaism.[/quote]

Oh. Yes. To both. Mohammed’s first wife Kadijah taught Mohammed a few things about Christian Scripture and he made up the rest of Islam as he went along. He had epileptic episodes that preceded his various revelations.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
See I always thought it was:
[/quote]

Islam, as depicted in the Quran, is a revival of the Abrahamic monotheistic message.

You can’t speak of shoot off here seeing how Mohamed didn’t profess Judaism before Islam. That said, Judaism much closer to Islam than Christianity.

The inarguable Unity of God (strict monotheism) being a central premise of both Judaism and Islam, it’s much easier to relate the core beliefs of the two than it is with Christianity. The latter being big on anthropomorphizing the divine, I personally feel more comfortable praying in a synagogue than I do in a church.

No argument there.

Here’s how it went. God brought down His message on Mankind with Abraham. Moses codified it and started Judaism. Millenia later, Christians come along alleging that Jesus is God in flesh and that people must worship him.

Some Jews went along leaving their faith. Others rejected that and stayed with Judaism. They also rejected the idea of the Jesus’ virgin birth and second coming (which Islam affirms).

Some 6 centuries latter after that, a man in Arabia named Mohamed claimed to a prophet of God and founded Islam. The central message of the new religion being that God is One and considered the trinity doctrine as blasphemy.

That’s way too simplistic, but you should be able to get the idea.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Islam, as depicted in the Quran, is a revival of the Abrahamic monotheistic message.

You can’t speak of shoot off here seeing how Mohamed didn’t profess Judaism before Islam. That said, Judaism much closer to Islam than Christianity.

The inarguable Unity of God (strict monotheism) being a central premise of both Judaism and Islam, it’s much easier to relate the core beliefs of the two than it is with Christianity.

The latter being big on anthropomorphizing the divine, I personally feel more comfortable praying in a synagogue than I do in a church.[/quote]

So it’s more a restart of Judaism?

[quote]Here’s how it went. God brought down His message on Mankind with Abraham. Moses codified it and started Judaism. Millenia later, Christians come along alleging that Jesus is God in flesh and that people must worship him.

Some Jews went along leaving their faith. Others rejected that and stayed with Judaism. They also rejected the idea of the Jesus’ virgin birth and second coming (which Islam affirms).

Some 6 centuries latter after that, a man in Arabia named Mohamed claimed to a prophet of God and founded Islam. The central message of the new religion being that God is One and considered the trinity doctrine as blasphemy.

That’s way too simplistic, but you should be able to get the idea. [/quote]

Now I’m confused. I thought one of the central tenets of Christianity was that there is only one God?

Sorry burst your bubble, but Mohammed misunderstood our doctrine, rather unsurprisingly.

Christians affirm that God is one in essence but three in personhood. Personhood is a different category than essence. Mohammed committed a category error.

The idea that we’ve “anthropomorphized the divine” is further evidence that you Muslims have no idea what the Christian argument even is. Why the God-man? Perhaps you should read 1 Corinthians 15 for the answer. It’s a necessity.

So what was that message, in your estimation?

[quote]lixy wrote:
To throw around extremely rare, means that not only you can show that it’s significantly lower in statistical terms, but it’s order(s) of magnitude smaller.[/quote]

Well, if you have “official” statistics, let’s have’em.

No?

I don’t either, but hardly a week (and never a month) goes by before we hear of another girl killed by her father/brothers/uncles/family dog because of a religious difference. An, oddly, the religion in question is always Islam.

And note that those are just the ones we hear from. I’m sure Saudi Arabia (and other Bronze Age nations) are both eager to keep those killings quiet and quite deficient in real journalists.

Islam is a mental disease. It, like other religions, dissociates you from reality. By making you believe lies, it prevents you from thinking correctly. You can’t see it, because you’re afflicted yourself.

If you don’t believe me, bring up your posting history and note every passage where you talk about women. Copy and paste them in a single document, and you’ll have something that looks like “Female Cattle: A Rapist’s Manifesto.”

Bring it to your mosque and have a laugh over it with some of your fellow primitives.

It is telling in itself that you have to forbid infanticide explicitely. Non-barbaric cultures call this “common sense.”

Why? Do they kill their daughters as a hobby too?

[quote]Makavali wrote:
So it’s more a restart of Judaism? [/quote]

If you MUST associate it with something, then yes. But keep in mind that Judaism as we know it is probably different from the one practiced in the days of Moses. Just as most Muslims today are likely to have strayed away from the Mohammedian message.

Objective people typically distinguish between exclusive monotheism (as in Judaism, Islam, etc.) and tripartite monotheism which is indeed the central tenet of Christianity.

And strictly speaking, catholics with their saints (even when overlooking the trinity bit) and some Muslims with their imams, sayeds, etc. are not to be considered monotheists in the strict sense of the term. If you call on anyone else but God for salvation, you’re not a monotheist.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

pookie, are you by any chance an Atheist?

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
I think their hatred for women stems mostly from the fact that Mohammed hated them. He said various things like, “The majority of those in hell are women,” and enslaved several others after killing their men, and married a six year old (Aisha).

I think this hatred for women has something to do with the rampant pederasty in their societies, especially because they don’t allow themselves normal relationships with women.
[/quote]

I think it is a regional thing, and goes back further than Islam. I don’t have my bible handy, but as I recall, Paul said women were to keep their mouths shut in church, and keep their hair covered.

As to why these practices are no longer part of Judaism, or Christianity, but seem stronger than ever in Islam, I have no idea.

Catholics do not call on Saints for Salvation.

The Muslims stopped the practice of infanticide. They let them grow a little older, then killed them.

Yeah, back in Mohammad’s time that was probably a great thing to do, but you’ve got to admit a lot of the world’s muslims are behind the times as far as women’s rights go…or are you against women’s rights?

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
…or are you against women’s rights?[/quote]

Women have rights?

Muslims also beleive that the Jews knew Muhammad was the final prophet. The had prophecies that described him in detail. The belief is that record of these prophecies were destroyed by Jewish scolars and politicians that did not want to give up power to Muhammed and his followers. Kind of mirrors the story with the Jews and Jesus.

[quote]pookie wrote:
Well, if you have “official” statistics, let’s have’em.

No?

I don’t either, [/quote]

And yet, you pull moronic statements out of your rear end and try to pass them as facts.

Always? No. Mostly? Yes.

And if you consider refusing-to-marry-some-dude-your-father-picked a “religious difference”, then there’s no helping you.

Saudis are notorious for keeping things quiet. It’s not like they execute people in public or anything…

Get a ducking clue!

Cure me, oh anointed one. You clearly know the one true path.

If there’s enough to compile a rapist’s manifesto, then surely you must very easily be able to quote me.

But I supposed unsubstantiated blind hatred is in fashion nowadays. Obama learned about Islam in school. He must be EVIL

No argument here.

[quote]Lastly, what do you make of Arab Christians and Druze?

Why? Do they kill their daughters as a hobby too?[/quote]

You’d think somebody making the case for the causality between religion and infanticide would at least do the minimum homework.

I liked you better when you used to argue with your brains.