Who Should Randy Fight Next?

[quote]otoko wrote:
I think Crocop has the best chance of beating Randy of the fighters that are in the UFC.[/quote]

I agree with this, actually, after the Gonzaga fight. Before I would have said a big strong grappler, but Randy’s clinch game and striking as he closes in is so off the charts right now I think he can out wrestle anyone out there. So I think we fall back to a fighter like Chuck, someone who is fast enough to keep the distance, packs powerful, accurate strikes, and can avoid the takedown. Mirko seems to fit that bill. He lacks the ability to get back to his feet though, but his stand up is much more polished and snappy than Chucks.

It will be interesting to see if Randy can comeback just as strong after a performance like that. A broken arm, taking 3 months off to shoot the prequel of the Scorpion King in Africa, and his heightened fame and the obligations it requires could dull the edge.

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
otoko wrote:
I think Crocop has the best chance of beating Randy of the fighters that are in the UFC.

I agree with this, actually, after the Gonzaga fight. Before I would have said a big strong grappler, but Randy’s clinch game and striking as he closes in is so off the charts right now I think he can out wrestle anyone out there. So I think we fall back to a fighter like Chuck, someone who is fast enough to keep the distance, packs powerful, accurate strikes, and can avoid the takedown. Mirko seems to fit that bill. He lacks the ability to get back to his feet though, but his stand up is much more polished and snappy than Chucks.

It will be interesting to see if Randy can comeback just as strong after a performance like that. A broken arm, taking 3 months off to shoot the prequel of the Scorpion King in Africa, and his heightened fame and the obligations it requires could dull the edge.[/quote]

Word. I hate that. It seems like it is so easy to fall into the trappings of success and lose your focus. Hopefully Randy is too well-centered for that, but who knows.

Id love to see Fedor vs Randy, but fedor seems very out in the wilderness right now as is Barrnett. If they where to join the UFC the HW div would be packed out. I dont think sylvia has it in him to make a return especially with so many other quality HW making waves in UFC.

[quote]Steve4192 wrote:
Outrage247 wrote:
There is no way Tim is getting a rematch anytime soon.

When was the last time a defeated UFC champion had to win more than two fights before getting a rematch? I can’t recall any other than guys who (a) left the organization or (b) went on a losing streak after losing the title.

The UFC has always given their champions quick rematches, and I see no reason why they would break that precedent for the second most successful HW champion in the history of the organization. Only Randy Couture (6) holds more UFC HW belts than Tim Sylvia (5), and only Couture (9), Hughes (9) & Tito (6) hold more overall UFC belts than Sylvia. No matter what you think of him, Sylvia is one of the most prolific champions in the history of the UFC.

Besides, Tim signed a new contract just before his loss to Randy and I’ll guarantee you Monte Cox got a rematch clause put in there. If Tim wins his fights, he will be getting another title shot sometime in the next six to twelve months.
[/quote]

The problem is everyone but you hates Sylvia. He was the most unpopular champion the UFC has ever had. Also Sylvia isn’t going to make it past Vera so we don’t really have to worry about him getting his title shot. Also if you don’t think Tim needs to prove himself a little more after the crap fights he has had against AA, Monson, and Randy than you know nothing about MMA.

[quote]Wayland wrote:
Id love to see Fedor vs Randy, but fedor seems very out in the wilderness right now as is Barrnett. If they where to join the UFC the HW div would be packed out. I dont think sylvia has it in him to make a return especially with so many other quality HW making waves in UFC. [/quote]

Barnett has basically stated on the Beatdown that he wants Fedor. Also his pay is over a million a fight, Barnett sells out 50,000+ tickets in Japan. His showmanship is second to none.

[quote]Outrage247 wrote:

The problem is everyone but you hates Sylvia.

[/quote]

First of all, when did I say anything about my feelings towards Sylvia? I’m not a fan of his, but I don’t let that blind me to the fact that he has one hell of a resume.

[quote]Outrage247 wrote:

He was the most unpopular champion the UFC has ever had.

[/quote]

While I recognize that the ability to sell tickets and PPVs is important, this ain’t a popularity contest. If the UFC wants people to view MMA as a sport rather than a spectacle, they can’t just pick and choose their contenders based on popularity.

[quote]Outrage247 wrote:

if you don’t think Tim needs to prove himself a little more after the crap fights he has had against AA, Monson, and Randy than you know nothing about MMA.

[/quote]

When did this place turn into Sherdog? Why am I a ‘moron’ for recognizing that a guy with a 23-3 MMA record and five UFC belts probably deserves an opportunity to get his belt back.

Besides, as I pointed out before, I’ll guarantee you that Monte Cox got some pretty strong rematch language into Sylvia’s contract extension before the fight with Randy. If Tim wins versus Vera, he will have at most one more fight before getting another shot at the title.

I just don’t get the irrational hatred for Tim Sylvia. He’s no different than Winky Wright or the 2000 Ravens or the 2003/04 Pistons or any other ‘boring’ champion in the history of sports. Winning ugly is still winning. If you really view MMA as a sport, you should recognize that even ‘ugly’ competitors deserve the chance to compete for the title.

I’ve never understood why some people seem to think that being a “3-time” or “5-time” or “X-time” champion is some extra accomplishment on top of being champion. If you were a 5-time champion, it just means that you lost it 4 times along the way. (Or maybe retired at some point and came back, but that ain’t the case with Sylvia). What’s much more impressive is a single-time (and still) champion who has never been beaten over a long period of time. I think there’s some Russian guy out there like that . . . .

[quote]Damici wrote:
I’ve never understood why some people seem to think that being a “3-time” or “5-time” or “X-time” champion is some extra accomplishment on top of being champion. If you were a 5-time champion, it just means that you lost it 4 times along the way. (Or maybe retired at some point and came back, but that ain’t the case with Sylvia). [/quote]

Sylvia is a two-time HW champion, has successfully defended the HW belt three times, and holds a total of five UFC HW belts.

Couture is a three-time HW champion, has successfully defended the HW belt three times, and hold a total of six UFC HW belts.

I know, I was just making the point that being a “multiple-time” champion is not necessarily some bigger accomplishment than being a one-time and reigning champion. It just means you lost it somewhere along the way, yet people seem to hype it up (even ring announcers) as if each additional time is some sort of “extra” prize. Not so.

[quote]Steve4192 wrote:
Damici wrote:
I’ve never understood why some people seem to think that being a “3-time” or “5-time” or “X-time” champion is some extra accomplishment on top of being champion. If you were a 5-time champion, it just means that you lost it 4 times along the way. (Or maybe retired at some point and came back, but that ain’t the case with Sylvia).

Sylvia is a two-time HW champion, has successfully defended the HW belt three times, and holds a total of five UFC HW belts.

Couture is a three-time HW champion, has successfully defended the HW belt three times, and hold a total of six UFC HW belts. [/quote]

[quote]Mick28 wrote:

I think much of it has to do with him looking so tall and goofy. Yea…I know that sounds odd, but I do think that has a lot to do with it.

[/quote]

I agree.

I think a lot of people have a mental disconnect with a tall, flabby, uncoordinated guy with Joe Dirt facial hair and a fauxhawk being the champion. That doesn’t make it right, but it is what it is.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:

Also, he’s never really beat any of the very top contenders. But I do give him credit for beating Ricco Rodriguez. Let’s see who else? Arlovski, Tellingman, Monson. See what I mean?

[/quote]

Not really.

Sylvia holds wins over three guys who were considered top 10 HWs at the time of the fight (Ricco Rodriguez, Andrei Arlovski, Gan McGee). That those guys have not maintained their top 10 status after losing to Big Tim is not really his fault. They were HUGE wins at the time.

He also has a TON of wins over guys who are considered ‘solid’ fighters at the very least. Ben Rothwell and Mike Whitehead are dominating in the IFL. Jason Lambert is knocking at the door of the top 10 at LHW. Cabbage, Telligman, Monson, and Assuerio Silva are all competent veteran fighters who have all proven their mettle over the years.

Sylvia deserves a shot. To his nuts.

I will say, my one fear (if you want to call it that) is that, with the UFC’s often quirky matchmaking, they sometimes tend to set up matches that no one is really all that interested in. Like Nog vs. Herring III (why?!). So I wouldn’t be TOO surprised if they throw Arlovski in there next, or even Tim, even though everyone’s been waiting YEARS to see the best of the Pride fighters (pretty much all but Fedor of whom – heavweights, anyway – are now in the UFC) fight the best of the UFC fighters, and we now have that chance. People have been longing to see CroCop and Nog fight Randy, Tim, etc. THOSE fights would be great to see. And that’s on top of the fact that Nog is (I believe) the #2 ranked heavyweight in the world. CroCop was #3 before getting beaten by Gonzaga, I believe, and I assume he’s still top 5 or 6.

Is anyone honestly going to try to tell me that Arlovski vs. Randy or Tim vs. Randy II is a more interesting fight than CroCop vs. Randy or Nog vs. Randy?? Please!! Hopefully Dana and company will do the right thing.

[quote]Damici wrote:
I will say, my one fear (if you want to call it that) is that, with the UFC’s often quirky matchmaking, they sometimes tend to set up matches that no one is really all that interested in. Like Nog vs. Herring III (why?!). So I wouldn’t be TOO surprised if they throw Arlovski in there next, or even Tim, even though everyone’s been waiting YEARS to see the best of the Pride fighters (pretty much all but Fedor of whom – heavweights, anyway – are now in the UFC) fight the best of the UFC fighters, and we now have that chance. People have been longing to see CroCop and Nog fight Randy, Tim, etc. THOSE fights would be great to see. And that’s on top of the fact that Nog is (I believe) the #2 ranked heavyweight in the world. CroCop was #3 before getting beaten by Gonzaga, I believe, and I assume he’s still top 5 or 6.

Is anyone honestly going to try to tell me that Arlovski vs. Randy or Tim vs. Randy II is a more interesting fight than CroCop vs. Randy or Nog vs. Randy?? Please!! Hopefully Dana and company will do the right thing.[/quote]

Sure, to the hardcore fan base, Randy vs. CroCop or Randy vs. Nogiuera are the more desireable matchups for Couture, but you have to remember that there’s still a large percentage of the fan base that doesn’t know much about PRIDE and what those 2 accomplished over there.

They tried to build CroCop up as something special but that kind of blew up in their face when Gonzaga smoked him, and Nogiuera struggled to beat Herring, a guy he beat pretty easily twice in PRIDE.

While I think a win by CroCop will move him up the ladder, I think it might take another 1-2 fights for Big Nog to get the proper build to headline a PPV against Randy.

That’s why I still think Arlovski could get the call. He’s an exciting fighter (with the exception of the 3rd Sylvia fight when he was hurt and the Werdum fight where he was just trying to get a win to protect his spot) who is popular with the fans. Plus, his style could present some problems for Randy.

But, with Randy’s injury and his filiming of the Scorpion King prequel, I wouldn’t be surprised to see an Arlovski-Cro Cop fight, with the winner slated to fight Couture, who I figure will want to fight sometime in Feb. or March of next year.

Hypothetically, assuming the stars do align and the UFC signs Fedor before year-end, do you think they’d give him an immediate UFC title shot? I know even Randy has been talking about how he’d like to fight Fedor.

If not, who do you think they’d have Fedor fight first? Surely not some total can, like they did with CroCop’s first fight . . . .

[quote]Djwlfpack wrote:
Damici wrote:
I will say, my one fear (if you want to call it that) is that, with the UFC’s often quirky matchmaking, they sometimes tend to set up matches that no one is really all that interested in. Like Nog vs. Herring III (why?!). So I wouldn’t be TOO surprised if they throw Arlovski in there next, or even Tim, even though everyone’s been waiting YEARS to see the best of the Pride fighters (pretty much all but Fedor of whom – heavweights, anyway – are now in the UFC) fight the best of the UFC fighters, and we now have that chance. People have been longing to see CroCop and Nog fight Randy, Tim, etc. THOSE fights would be great to see. And that’s on top of the fact that Nog is (I believe) the #2 ranked heavyweight in the world. CroCop was #3 before getting beaten by Gonzaga, I believe, and I assume he’s still top 5 or 6.

Is anyone honestly going to try to tell me that Arlovski vs. Randy or Tim vs. Randy II is a more interesting fight than CroCop vs. Randy or Nog vs. Randy?? Please!! Hopefully Dana and company will do the right thing.

Sure, to the hardcore fan base, Randy vs. CroCop or Randy vs. Nogiuera are the more desireable matchups for Couture, but you have to remember that there’s still a large percentage of the fan base that doesn’t know much about PRIDE and what those 2 accomplished over there.

They tried to build CroCop up as something special but that kind of blew up in their face when Gonzaga smoked him, and Nogiuera struggled to beat Herring, a guy he beat pretty easily twice in PRIDE.

While I think a win by CroCop will move him up the ladder, I think it might take another 1-2 fights for Big Nog to get the proper build to headline a PPV against Randy.

That’s why I still think Arlovski could get the call. He’s an exciting fighter (with the exception of the 3rd Sylvia fight when he was hurt and the Werdum fight where he was just trying to get a win to protect his spot) who is popular with the fans. Plus, his style could present some problems for Randy.

But, with Randy’s injury and his filiming of the Scorpion King prequel, I wouldn’t be surprised to see an Arlovski-Cro Cop fight, with the winner slated to fight Couture, who I figure will want to fight sometime in Feb. or March of next year.
[/quote]

One of my faovirte HW fighters that I hope doesn’t fall off the face of planet, Sergey Kharitonov. If he can get and stay healthy, with a little more training, I think he could be a huge force in MMA. As far as strikers go, I put him up there with CroCop. He is fast, accurate, and has tons of power, and he is much better on the ground than Mirko. Now that I think of it, I’d love to see CroCop and Sergey fight!

[quote]Outrage247 wrote:
Steve4192 wrote:
Outrage247 wrote:
There is no way Tim is getting a rematch anytime soon.

When was the last time a defeated UFC champion had to win more than two fights before getting a rematch? I can’t recall any other than guys who (a) left the organization or (b) went on a losing streak after losing the title.

The UFC has always given their champions quick rematches, and I see no reason why they would break that precedent for the second most successful HW champion in the history of the organization. Only Randy Couture (6) holds more UFC HW belts than Tim Sylvia (5), and only Couture (9), Hughes (9) & Tito (6) hold more overall UFC belts than Sylvia. No matter what you think of him, Sylvia is one of the most prolific champions in the history of the UFC.

Besides, Tim signed a new contract just before his loss to Randy and I’ll guarantee you Monte Cox got a rematch clause put in there. If Tim wins his fights, he will be getting another title shot sometime in the next six to twelve months.

The problem is everyone but you hates Sylvia. He was the most unpopular champion the UFC has ever had. Also Sylvia isn’t going to make it past Vera so we don’t really have to worry about him getting his title shot. Also if you don’t think Tim needs to prove himself a little more after the crap fights he has had against AA, Monson, and Randy than you know nothing about MMA. [/quote]

Edit: Sylvia was the most unpopular champion in the history of any sport ever.

-dizzle

If they were somehow able to sign Fedor, then I’d imagine he’d get an immediate shot at Randy and it’d be a unification bout, similar to how Henderson’s first UFC fight is for the title.

I think the PRIDE titleholders are going to be the only exceptions to the rule of UFC bringing PRIDE guys in and having them fight 1-2 times before getting a title shot.

[quote]Damici wrote:
Hypothetically, assuming the stars do align and the UFC signs Fedor before year-end, do you think they’d give him an immediate UFC title shot? I know even Randy has been talking about how he’d like to fight Fedor.

If not, who do you think they’d have Fedor fight first? Surely not some total can, like they did with CroCop’s first fight . . . .

Djwlfpack wrote:
Damici wrote:
I will say, my one fear (if you want to call it that) is that, with the UFC’s often quirky matchmaking, they sometimes tend to set up matches that no one is really all that interested in. Like Nog vs. Herring III (why?!). So I wouldn’t be TOO surprised if they throw Arlovski in there next, or even Tim, even though everyone’s been waiting YEARS to see the best of the Pride fighters (pretty much all but Fedor of whom – heavweights, anyway – are now in the UFC) fight the best of the UFC fighters, and we now have that chance. People have been longing to see CroCop and Nog fight Randy, Tim, etc. THOSE fights would be great to see. And that’s on top of the fact that Nog is (I believe) the #2 ranked heavyweight in the world. CroCop was #3 before getting beaten by Gonzaga, I believe, and I assume he’s still top 5 or 6.

Is anyone honestly going to try to tell me that Arlovski vs. Randy or Tim vs. Randy II is a more interesting fight than CroCop vs. Randy or Nog vs. Randy?? Please!! Hopefully Dana and company will do the right thing.

Sure, to the hardcore fan base, Randy vs. CroCop or Randy vs. Nogiuera are the more desireable matchups for Couture, but you have to remember that there’s still a large percentage of the fan base that doesn’t know much about PRIDE and what those 2 accomplished over there.

They tried to build CroCop up as something special but that kind of blew up in their face when Gonzaga smoked him, and Nogiuera struggled to beat Herring, a guy he beat pretty easily twice in PRIDE.

While I think a win by CroCop will move him up the ladder, I think it might take another 1-2 fights for Big Nog to get the proper build to headline a PPV against Randy.

That’s why I still think Arlovski could get the call. He’s an exciting fighter (with the exception of the 3rd Sylvia fight when he was hurt and the Werdum fight where he was just trying to get a win to protect his spot) who is popular with the fans. Plus, his style could present some problems for Randy.

But, with Randy’s injury and his filiming of the Scorpion King prequel, I wouldn’t be surprised to see an Arlovski-Cro Cop fight, with the winner slated to fight Couture, who I figure will want to fight sometime in Feb. or March of next year.

[/quote]

[quote]Djwlfpack wrote:
Damici wrote:
I will say, my one fear (if you want to call it that) is that, with the UFC’s often quirky matchmaking, they sometimes tend to set up matches that no one is really all that interested in. Like Nog vs. Herring III (why?!). So I wouldn’t be TOO surprised if they throw Arlovski in there next, or even Tim, even though everyone’s been waiting YEARS to see the best of the Pride fighters (pretty much all but Fedor of whom – heavweights, anyway – are now in the UFC) fight the best of the UFC fighters, and we now have that chance. People have been longing to see CroCop and Nog fight Randy, Tim, etc. THOSE fights would be great to see. And that’s on top of the fact that Nog is (I believe) the #2 ranked heavyweight in the world. CroCop was #3 before getting beaten by Gonzaga, I believe, and I assume he’s still top 5 or 6.

Is anyone honestly going to try to tell me that Arlovski vs. Randy or Tim vs. Randy II is a more interesting fight than CroCop vs. Randy or Nog vs. Randy?? Please!! Hopefully Dana and company will do the right thing.

Sure, to the hardcore fan base, Randy vs. CroCop or Randy vs. Nogiuera are the more desireable matchups for Couture, but you have to remember that there’s still a large percentage of the fan base that doesn’t know much about PRIDE and what those 2 accomplished over there.

They tried to build CroCop up as something special but that kind of blew up in their face when Gonzaga smoked him, and Nogiuera struggled to beat Herring, a guy he beat pretty easily twice in PRIDE.

While I think a win by CroCop will move him up the ladder, I think it might take another 1-2 fights for Big Nog to get the proper build to headline a PPV against Randy.

That’s why I still think Arlovski could get the call. He’s an exciting fighter (with the exception of the 3rd Sylvia fight when he was hurt and the Werdum fight where he was just trying to get a win to protect his spot) who is popular with the fans. Plus, his style could present some problems for Randy.

But, with Randy’s injury and his filiming of the Scorpion King prequel, I wouldn’t be surprised to see an Arlovski-Cro Cop fight, with the winner slated to fight Couture, who I figure will want to fight sometime in Feb. or March of next year.
[/quote]

I’d personally love to see a Cro-Cop vs. Arlovski fight. I’ve felt that that would be a good match up for some time now. Perhaps have those two fight it out for the #1 contender spot. This would also most likely give Randy enough time to fully recover and get his training back up to where it was before the Gonzaga fight.

And since Sylvia was the former champion (although I agree an incredibly unappealing one), if he does beat Vera let him fight for the #1 contender spot vs. Nog next (the winner to fight the winner of the Randy vs. Arlovski/Cro-Cop). That way we get to see the top pride guys fight the top UFC guys and still get some pretty decent (unless Sylvia somehow beats Nog) fights for the title.

Now if the UFC signs Fedor, well then it’s probably only a matter or time before he gains the title and defends it indefinitely as he has in Pride. Honestly, I think that Randy probably has the best shot (or at least as good a shot as anyone) out there of possibly beating Fedor.

I seriously think that if he applies his game plan well there may be no one out there who can beat him (short of a puncher’s chance), especially in the cage. He is definitely the smartest fighter in MMA if you ask me.

Good training,

Sentoguy

[quote]A-Dizz wrote:

Edit: Sylvia was the most unpopular champion in the history of any sport ever.

[/quote]

I completely agree.

However, if the UFC wants MMA to be taken seriously as a sport, they can’t deny a guy a shot at the title just because the cool kids don’t like him.

Do you think the NBA is thrilled that the Spurs keep making the finals instead of teams from the monster media markets (NY, LA, Chicago)? Do you think MLB was thrilled to have a Cardinals vs Tigers World Series or do you think they would have preferred the Dodgers versus the Yankees?

The fact of the matter is, unpopular champions are a reality that all legitimate sports must deal with. If the UFC buries Sylvia simply because he is unpopular, then they really can’t be taken seriously as a competitive sport.