Two things helped me.
Practice. Practicing the sumo on a weekly basis with 50-60% of my max has made a huge difference on technique,explosiveness and strength.
Gripping the floor. DLing in barefeet,socks,slippers or thin soled shoes(I prefer boxing shoes)helped a great deal. I feel much stronger when my feet can grip the floor and transfer force up through my legs and back.
[quote]earthshaker wrote:
Two things helped me.
Practice. Practicing the sumo on a weekly basis with 50-60% of my max has made a huge difference on technique,explosiveness and strength.
Gripping the floor. DLing in barefeet,socks,slippers or thin soled shoes(I prefer boxing shoes)helped a great deal. I feel much stronger when my feet can grip the floor and transfer force up through my legs and back.[/quote]
Agree on number 1.
Number 2…ehhh…pulling sumo barefoot or in socks isn’t a good idea. Best to wear something like chucks with a solid sidewall that you can push out against.
When I tried sumo, it felt so much better for my body type. I cannot for the life of me get my body in the right pulling position for conventional style deadlifting.
I have short arms and long legs, relatively speaking. Not sure about torso.
Btw - always wondered this. Is there a rough guide which can show you if you in deed have short/long arms vs. short/long legs? is there a table or anything which gives an estimate of how long your arms would be if they were “long” compared to your legs? Im probably not describing this right so forgive me but I hope you know what i mean.
When I pulled sumo, however, I could easily get my hips down, grab the bar, all while keeping my back straight.
MHB, I bookmarked this a while ago.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Westclock wrote:
I cant pull worth a damn sumo. I have never met a taller guy who prefers it raw.
but not many taller guys, I think the balance is just off.
im 6 feet tall
i pulled 455x3 with straps sumo.
and 425x7 DOH - no straps
Im not exactly sure what your trying to say.
Neither of those is an especially big pull, and are pretty close to each other.
is the 425x7 sumo or conventional ?
Because 455x3 and 425x 7 are pretty close.[/quote]
i did them both sumo, they may not be “especially big” but they arent light either.
what im saying is im a tall guy that pulls sumo.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Generally speaking, breaking the floor with a sumo stance is going to be easier than conventional if you are keeping your hips down and using your legs instead of trying to do a wide stance SLDL.
I’ve also heard that lifters with wider hips tend to be better at pulling sumo since bigger pelvis = wider stance and stronger hips. This makes sense to me, as personally, I am much more comfortable and stronger in a wide stance in both squat and deadlift and I have a big old ass and hips.[/quote]
i actually like going narrow on the squat, hacksquat and leg press.
Trying to determine the perfect body type for the deadlift is an exercise in futility. Look at the great deadlifters of the past and today. Ed Coan pulled 901 @ 220. He’s a short and stocky 5’6". Gary Heisy held the all time record with a 925 and that dude is 6’5"+ and realively long limbed. Andy Bolton is a rotund 6’1". Konstantinov(?) is a lean 260-270 and I’m not sure of his height.
My point is good deadlifters pay very close attention to technique and how the deadlift complements the rest of the training. They don’t come up with excuses why they suck at it. This whole “my arms/torso/legs/ear lobes are too long/short/wide/thick/ugly and that’s why I can’t deadlift” is bullshit. Get the sand out of your vagina…
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
earthshaker wrote:
Two things helped me.
Practice. Practicing the sumo on a weekly basis with 50-60% of my max has made a huge difference on technique,explosiveness and strength.
Gripping the floor. DLing in barefeet,socks,slippers or thin soled shoes(I prefer boxing shoes)helped a great deal. I feel much stronger when my feet can grip the floor and transfer force up through my legs and back.
Number 2…ehhh…pulling sumo barefoot or in socks isn’t a good idea. Best to wear something like chucks with a solid sidewall that you can push out against.[/quote]
No, that is a misconception. You should not push out to the sides OF the feet/shoes, but push out to the side WITH the feet. Trying to spread the floor down and out. With thin soled shoes or socks you get a better feel for this technique.
[quote]drdgmuro wrote:
Trying to determine the perfect body type for the deadlift is an exercise in futility. Look at the great deadlifters of the past and today. Ed Coan pulled 901 @ 220. He’s a short and stocky 5’6". Gary Heisy held the all time record with a 925 and that dude is 6’5"+ and realively long limbed. Andy Bolton is a rotund 6’1". Konstantinov(?) is a lean 260-270 and I’m not sure of his height.
My point is good deadlifters pay very close attention to technique and how the deadlift complements the rest of the training. They don’t come up with excuses why they suck at it. This whole “my arms/torso/legs/ear lobes are too long/short/wide/thick/ugly and that’s why I can’t deadlift” is bullshit. Get the sand out of your vagina…[/quote]
Thanks for the tips!!!
Pulled sumo tonight. Much less weight than normal, but loaded the bar with 25’s and worked on depth and form.
Yowza! Felt good.
I can pull very similar weight with both but prefer to do sumo because of an L3 and L5 injury.
I also keep my shins pretty close to where the rings are in the knurling.
and I also think that it is easier to break the weight off the floor in conventional than sumo…Playing around with foot position really helped me with comfort and some strength in sumos-taking a lot of the pressure off my knees
[quote]earthshaker wrote:
No, that is a misconception. You should not push out to the sides OF the feet/shoes, but push out to the side WITH the feet. Trying to spread the floor down and out. With thin soled shoes or socks you get a better feel for this technique. [/quote]
So would you explain to me why the top sumo pullers wear shoes and the top conventional pullers wear slippers?
When you pull sumo, you push your feet out to the sides and spread the floor. You are saying that rather than pushing the feet/shoes out to the sides, you should push the feet out to the sides…I didn’t realize that there was a difference…sounds like the same thing to me.
If you pull sumo, your ability to grip the floor is even more important and you will need a flat, sturdy shoe that will hold onto the floor when you pull. Chucks or Aisics wrestling shoes fit the bill nicely.
Whenever I am in Japan on vacation I always pull sumo women. THEY ARE NICE!!!
Ed Coan did his 901 with a “modified” sumo stance (feet just outside of shoulders). A groin injury forced him to switch to conventional style.
I’ve been pulling sumo for about 1.5 years and what I’ve found, which has been mentioned, is that feet out to the plates will break from the floor easier, but locking out your knees is harder. Feet about 6-8" from the plates will be harder to break but locking the knee is more difficult. Also, its harder to avoid having your hips shoot up when you bring your feet in.
You have to keep in mind that when you pull sumo, you’re “squatting” the weight up. So if you go wide stance and let you hips rise to fast, you’re missing the point of pulling sumo. Same goes for a closer stance.
Jeremy Frey has a very nice sumo pull. It’s actually a little more narrow than his squat I believe. Check this video here, its exactly how a sumo pull should look IMO.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
earthshaker wrote:
No, that is a misconception. You should not push out to the sides OF the feet/shoes, but push out to the side WITH the feet. Trying to spread the floor down and out. With thin soled shoes or socks you get a better feel for this technique.
So would you explain to me why the top sumo pullers wear shoes and the top conventional pullers wear slippers?
When you pull sumo, you push your feet out to the sides and spread the floor. You are saying that rather than pushing the feet/shoes out to the sides, you should push the feet out to the sides…I didn’t realize that there was a difference…sounds like the same thing to me.
If you pull sumo, your ability to grip the floor is even more important and you will need a flat, sturdy shoe that will hold onto the floor when you pull. Chucks or Aisics wrestling shoes fit the bill nicely.[/quote]
You are right, most of the top sumo pullers are wearing shoes,like wrestling shoes, but not chucks. A sturdy sidewall to push against is not needed because the feet are turned out to far. In sumo style the force is driven mainly down into the heel and out towards the toes. This is what I’ve learned from pulling sumo over the last ten years.
Wearing a thin soled shoe/barefoot (i.e. wrestling shoes,boxing shoes,aqua socks,slippers) gives better feedback to the foot for a more pronuonced feel of the floor. Some of the best sumo pullers I have seen(Inzer,Ribic,Kutcher,Bartley & Kang) used one of these options in competition. The recent “Barefoot to get Stronger” article makes a great point on this topic.
[quote]earthshaker wrote:
You are right, most of the top sumo pullers are wearing shoes,like wrestling shoes, but not chucks.[/quote]
Vogelpohl pulled his 835 in chucks.
Chucks are thin soled shoes, I don’t know where you go the idea that they weren’t…
Aisics wrestling shoes offer the same sort of support as chucks do…grip the floor and support your ankles enough to keep them from rolling due to the outward pressure during the pull.
As for your initial post, you suggested that those pulling sumo should do so in socks. I have never seen a top sumo puller wear slippers.
Regarding the article you mentioned, IIRC, the author specifically mentioned chucks as a good starting point for those wishing to go “barefoot”.
[quote]drdgmuro wrote:
Trying to determine the perfect body type for the deadlift is an exercise in futility. Look at the great deadlifters of the past and today. Ed Coan pulled 901 @ 220. He’s a short and stocky 5’6". Gary Heisy held the all time record with a 925 and that dude is 6’5"+ and realively long limbed. Andy Bolton is a rotund 6’1". Konstantinov(?) is a lean 260-270 and I’m not sure of his height.
My point is good deadlifters pay very close attention to technique and how the deadlift complements the rest of the training. They don’t come up with excuses why they suck at it. This whole “my arms/torso/legs/ear lobes are too long/short/wide/thick/ugly and that’s why I can’t deadlift” is bullshit. Get the sand out of your vagina…[/quote]
It doesn’t matter perfect body type or not…but in cases people DO have better body types for certain things.
I think I have a great body type for squatting, and that’s why I’m a good squatter. For me pulling conventional…I’ve been working on damn technique for over 3 months…it’s coming along nicely, but I do not have that same strength and am not pulling more in the deadlift compared to squat. Where usually peoples deadlifts are higher than their squats.
But if I pull sumo, and focus on back strength, and do conv. pulling. My sumo will go up, especially if I’m still squatting. Sumo helps my squat too with hip strength.
But I think it’s for real and everybody knows this?
GREAT PULLERS HAVE GREAT BODY-TYPES FOR PULLING. regardless of height. you don’t need the right height, you need everythin else right though.
Let me take this a step further.
Do you tailor your assistance work to the fact that you pull Sumo? Do you do anything differently (or at all) that you might not do if you didn’t pull sumo?
For example, do you do rack pulls sumo? (I’ve honestly never seen that, hence the question.)