T Nation

Who Made God?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

having spoken to people that have read the bible, I know from them that my questions are un answered within its pages.

That was truly lame. You now let others think for you?[/quote]

No Prof I do not let them think for me, it goes a little something like this

ME “hey does the bible give an itellegent account of dinosaurs?”

PERSON WHO HAS READ THE BIBLE “no”

So there yoU go I did not read the bible but I now know that one of my questions is not answered in the bible.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

having spoken to people that have read the bible, I know from them that my questions are un answered within its pages.

It seems that there are many (most?) who reject the Bible without first having read it. You are not unique in that regard.

Tell me, would you accept or reject a body building routine without first having tried it, or at least studied it first?

Let me suggest that your spirituality is at least important enough for you to take a close personal look for yourself.[/quote]

Zeb have you rejected other religions after reading their books? So you have tried each religion and made a educated decision about which you liked the best? didnt think so

and you analogy is weak:

I have a sick bodybuilding program that involves wearing a pink leotard around the gym with a fanny pack its the best work out you will ever try…will you try it? WHY NOT dude how can you reject something without trying it

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

having spoken to people that have read the bible, I know from them that my questions are un answered within its pages.

That was truly lame. You now let others think for you?

No Prof I do not let them think for me, it goes a little something like this

ME “hey does the bible give an itellegent account of dinosaurs?”

PERSON WHO HAS READ THE BIBLE “no”

So there yoU go I did not read the bible but I now know that one of my questions is not answered in the bible.
[/quote]

There are some theologians who believe they are mentioned with regards to “giants”. You also have to realize that there is still debate on some issues in the Bible, like Noah’s Arc. These are things you don’t even know about because you refuse to learn for yourself. That’s pathetic. How can someone like that gather up the nerve to laugh at the beliefs of someone else? You are completely clueless on the issue yet scream your ill-informed opinion loudly as if you are proud of it. Ignorance is bliss, huh?

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
OK OK sorry there has been a fair few religion threads lately, and i know that I could have posted in one of those, but I feel this question deserved its own thread.

It has just struck me that if god made man in his own image and if he created the hole universe in 6 days and all that.

But what was before the universe? God is always depicted as an elderly man with the grey hair and beard etc. So was he elderly when he made the universe? If so what did he do before?

He appears to have had a lot of time on his hands and if he is imortal I am guesing to get to looking like a 80 year old guy could have taken him actually around 80 million years or so, which means that if he can create our own infinite universe in just 6 days then asuming he has been around 80 million years he could have cretaed:

80,000,000 years

x 365 days=

29200000000 divide by 6=

4866666666 Other similar universe’s to ours exsisting and thats having every sunday off too!

Also the subject question still remains, who made god?
Is there a mummy and daddy god?

Am I a SIM?

I have never read the bible in its enterity, can someone tell me if this subject is approached in the bible? and are my questions answered?

Cheers[/quote]

Your questions assume that you have the capacity to understand the answers, which you do not. None of us human do.

The God of the Bible was designed just for us. Designed to help us understand a small piece of what is not understandable from a human perspective.

So all we know of God is what we have the potential to know as revealed in the Bible. Anything beyond that is just not something we can comprehend.

So all we can do is try and understand what God wants us to know of himself as revealed in the Bible, and that in itself, is very difficult and something that the most learned people having been working on for thousands of years.

The subject is approached in the bible.
1.Hebrews 11:6 “Without faith it is impossible to please God,for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

  1. Hebrews 11:1 “Now faith is the confidence of things hoped for,the evidence of things not seen.”

  2. Romans 10:17 “Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.”

The key to all Christendom is Faith.Biblical meanings of faith take on a understanding of to be persuaded,place confidence in,absolute depenence upon and reliance in the word of God and of Christ,full surrender,yieldedness,and obedience to all known truth,trust wholly and unreservedly in the faithfulness of God,and to give one’s self over to a new way of life and this faith comes to us by reading the Word of God and hearing what is read.

By faith the true christian believes the word of God and “…walks by faith,not by sight…”(II Corinthians 5:7)

Thus"In the begining God…"(Genesis 1:1)

[quote]Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

having spoken to people that have read the bible, I know from them that my questions are un answered within its pages.

That was truly lame. You now let others think for you?

No Prof I do not let them think for me, it goes a little something like this

ME “hey does the bible give an itellegent account of dinosaurs?”

PERSON WHO HAS READ THE BIBLE “no”

So there yoU go I did not read the bible but I now know that one of my questions is not answered in the bible.

There are some theologians who believe they are mentioned with regards to “giants”. You also have to realize that there is still debate on some issues in the Bible, like Noah’s Arc. These are things you don’t even know about because you refuse to learn for yourself. That’s pathetic. How can someone like that gather up the nerve to laugh at the beliefs of someone else? You are completely clueless on the issue yet scream your ill-informed opinion loudly as if you are proud of it. Ignorance is bliss, huh?[/quote]

Prof I have not read the entire bible, but I have read enough to make my own mind up that it is all BS, it is not just the bible I have loud opinions on it is Chritianity as a whole and how its followers preach their beliefs onto others. I do not need to read the bible to realise that some Christians are a major pain in the ass.

If a Christian can stand on a soap box in the street and judge and preach to all passers by and telling them that if they do not convert they will all suffer in the afterlife. This man has no knowledge of the faiths or lives of the people he is preaching too.

Why cannot be afforded the same allowances when standing on my soapbox?

[quote]cram2012 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Zeb have you rejected other religions after reading their books? So you have tried each religion and made a educated decision about which you liked the best? didnt think so

and you analogy is weak:

I have a sick bodybuilding program that involves wearing a pink leotard around the gym with a fanny pack its the best work out you will ever try…will you try it? WHY NOT dude how can you reject something without trying it[/quote]

But people of other religions see yours that way as well. The fact that most people in this world choose the religion of their parents is pretty good evidence that most people do not give all religions (or none) a fair shake. Examining other religions will probably not help much. When you are indoctrinated as a child, it tends to stick with you.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:

Your questions assume that you have the capacity to understand the answers, which you do not. None of us human do.

The God of the Bible was designed just for us. Designed to help us understand a small piece of what is not understandable from a human perspective.

So all we know of God is what we have the potential to know as revealed in the Bible. Anything beyond that is just not something we can comprehend.

So all we can do is try and understand what God wants us to know of himself as revealed in the Bible, and that in itself, is very difficult and something that the most learned people having been working on for thousands of years.

[/quote]

Excellent post Lorisco.

Unfortunately some want to place God in a box. They want to bring God down to their level in order to understand him. And when that fails they say “there is no God.”

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

having spoken to people that have read the bible, I know from them that my questions are un answered within its pages.

That was truly lame. You now let others think for you?

No Prof I do not let them think for me, it goes a little something like this

ME “hey does the bible give an itellegent account of dinosaurs?”

PERSON WHO HAS READ THE BIBLE “no”

So there yoU go I did not read the bible but I now know that one of my questions is not answered in the bible.

There are some theologians who believe they are mentioned with regards to “giants”. You also have to realize that there is still debate on some issues in the Bible, like Noah’s Arc. These are things you don’t even know about because you refuse to learn for yourself. That’s pathetic. How can someone like that gather up the nerve to laugh at the beliefs of someone else? You are completely clueless on the issue yet scream your ill-informed opinion loudly as if you are proud of it. Ignorance is bliss, huh?

Prof I have not read the entire bible, but I have read enough to make my own mind up that it is all BS, it is not just the bible I have loud opinions on it is Chritianity as a whole and how its followers preach their beliefs onto others. I do not need to read the bible to realise that some Christians are a major pain in the ass.

If a Christian can stand on a soap box in the street and judge and preach to all passers by and telling them that if they do not convert they will all suffer in the afterlife. This man has no knowledge of the faiths or lives of the people he is preaching too.

Why cannot be afforded the same allowances when standing on my soapbox?

[/quote]

I would suggest you look into this further as you have many misconceptions in your though process here.

A Christian preaching on the corner does not need to know the lifestyles of everyone passing by and he is not judging anyone. What you don’t understand is that no one is sinless or living how they were designed to live. This is not about your behavior (although many people try and make it such). It’s about where your heart is and what you believe in.

So all people, even Christians, do not and cannot live a perfect life. We are all the same in this regard. The only difference is that Christians have come to understand their need for a relationship with God to allow him to make up for what they lack.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

having spoken to people that have read the bible, I know from them that my questions are un answered within its pages.

That was truly lame. You now let others think for you?

No Prof I do not let them think for me, it goes a little something like this

ME “hey does the bible give an itellegent account of dinosaurs?”

PERSON WHO HAS READ THE BIBLE “no”

So there yoU go I did not read the bible but I now know that one of my questions is not answered in the bible.

There are some theologians who believe they are mentioned with regards to “giants”. You also have to realize that there is still debate on some issues in the Bible, like Noah’s Arc. These are things you don’t even know about because you refuse to learn for yourself. That’s pathetic. How can someone like that gather up the nerve to laugh at the beliefs of someone else? You are completely clueless on the issue yet scream your ill-informed opinion loudly as if you are proud of it. Ignorance is bliss, huh?

Prof I have not read the entire bible, but I have read enough to make my own mind up that it is all BS, it is not just the bible I have loud opinions on it is Chritianity as a whole and how its followers preach their beliefs onto others. I do not need to read the bible to realise that some Christians are a major pain in the ass.

If a Christian can stand on a soap box in the street and judge and preach to all passers by and telling them that if they do not convert they will all suffer in the afterlife. This man has no knowledge of the faiths or lives of the people he is preaching too.

Why cannot be afforded the same allowances when standing on my soapbox?

I would suggest you look into this further as you have many misconceptions in your though process here.

A Christian preaching on the corner does not need to know the lifestyles of everyone passing by and he is not judging anyone. What you don’t understand is that no one is sinless or living how they were designed to live. This is not about your behavior (although many people try and make it such). It’s about where your heart is and what you believe in.

So all people, even Christians, do not and cannot live a perfect life. We are all the same in this regard. The only difference is that Christians have come to understand their need for a relationship with God to allow him to make up for what they lack.

[/quote]

what do you lack? strength? intelligence? moral fortitude? an arm?

[quote]larryb wrote:
cram2012 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Zeb have you rejected other religions after reading their books? So you have tried each religion and made a educated decision about which you liked the best? didnt think so

and you analogy is weak:

I have a sick bodybuilding program that involves wearing a pink leotard around the gym with a fanny pack its the best work out you will ever try…will you try it? WHY NOT dude how can you reject something without trying it

But people of other religions see yours that way as well. The fact that most people in this world choose the religion of their parents is pretty good evidence that most people do not give all religions (or none) a fair shake. Examining other religions will probably not help much. When you are indoctrinated as a child, it tends to stick with you.[/quote]

I agree, someone raised as a Muslim is going to have just as strong a conviction or faith as someone raised Christian. So does that make someone wrong and someone right, because they have not read your book of choice…absolutely not. “TO EACH HIS OWN.” and that is why it is pointless to debate. no one is going to change a lifetime of views and philosophy, because someone threatens you. “you will burn forever!!!” it makes people uncomfortable to know everyone doesn’t agree, and there may be another answer, or a multitude of answers, or no answer, its a mystery thats why this life is so awesome. People have to have control though, people try to front, when they need to accept “they dont know, and cant possibly know.” I’ve admitted it…it feels great.
its human nature to find the answer, to know the “TRUTH,” to understand the unknowable. and to achieve this folks seek all sorts of different “solutions” I am not saying Christianity is wrong or right, I am saying it is unknowable. The same goes for the other 100 + religions out there neither wrong or right…“unknowable”
Have faith, its an admirable trait, dont try to act better than the next man because it strokes your insecurity.

[quote]mazilla wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

having spoken to people that have read the bible, I know from them that my questions are un answered within its pages.

That was truly lame. You now let others think for you?

No Prof I do not let them think for me, it goes a little something like this

ME “hey does the bible give an itellegent account of dinosaurs?”

PERSON WHO HAS READ THE BIBLE “no”

So there yoU go I did not read the bible but I now know that one of my questions is not answered in the bible.

There are some theologians who believe they are mentioned with regards to “giants”. You also have to realize that there is still debate on some issues in the Bible, like Noah’s Arc. These are things you don’t even know about because you refuse to learn for yourself. That’s pathetic. How can someone like that gather up the nerve to laugh at the beliefs of someone else? You are completely clueless on the issue yet scream your ill-informed opinion loudly as if you are proud of it. Ignorance is bliss, huh?

Prof I have not read the entire bible, but I have read enough to make my own mind up that it is all BS, it is not just the bible I have loud opinions on it is Chritianity as a whole and how its followers preach their beliefs onto others. I do not need to read the bible to realise that some Christians are a major pain in the ass.

If a Christian can stand on a soap box in the street and judge and preach to all passers by and telling them that if they do not convert they will all suffer in the afterlife. This man has no knowledge of the faiths or lives of the people he is preaching too.

Why cannot be afforded the same allowances when standing on my soapbox?

I would suggest you look into this further as you have many misconceptions in your though process here.

A Christian preaching on the corner does not need to know the lifestyles of everyone passing by and he is not judging anyone. What you don’t understand is that no one is sinless or living how they were designed to live. This is not about your behavior (although many people try and make it such). It’s about where your heart is and what you believe in.

So all people, even Christians, do not and cannot live a perfect life. We are all the same in this regard. The only difference is that Christians have come to understand their need for a relationship with God to allow him to make up for what they lack.

what do you lack? strength? intelligence? moral fortitude? an arm? [/quote]

You lack the ability to live and act as truly moral person. Man is morally flawed.

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
Professor X wrote:
electric_eales wrote:

having spoken to people that have read the bible, I know from them that my questions are un answered within its pages.

That was truly lame. You now let others think for you?

No Prof I do not let them think for me, it goes a little something like this

ME “hey does the bible give an itellegent account of dinosaurs?”

PERSON WHO HAS READ THE BIBLE “no”

So there yoU go I did not read the bible but I now know that one of my questions is not answered in the bible.
[/quote]

Dude, the Bible is not meant to be an account of the entire history of the earth. It is also not meant to be a book that answers all questions that anyone may have. Most Christians agree that the universe is much, much older than 10,000 years, which, give or take, is all the longer Biblical history goes back.

Know also that science will never answer all of your questions; you will always have to put your faith where the probabilities point you. (And this is not meant to pit science and faith against each other, because, in my eyes, there is not disagreement between the two.)

You have to step outside your box you are living in, do a little research and reading before making yourself look ignorant by posting such comments.

Bear

Philosophy 101…Aristotle had the best answer. The buck stops somewhere, the unmoved mover and the unchanged changer. The buck stops there, therefore God cannot be created or destroyed. The idea that things must have a begining and an end is a human problem, in a human though things cannot just be, but just because we cannot concieve it does not mean it does not exist.

You sound like a good candidate for metaphysics, it deals primarily with things outside the 5 senses and normal conception of the mind. Some authors you may want to consider are : David Hume, Immanuel Kant, Liebinez(sp?), John Locke, etc. Definatly start with Aristotle, it all starts with him.
You ain’t going to solve this issue on a T-Nation forum. Especially one that leads to arguments and personal attack.

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
OK OK sorry there has been a fair few religion threads lately, and i know that I could have posted in one of those, but I feel this question deserved its own thread.

It has just struck me that if god made man in his own image and if he created the hole universe in 6 days and all that.

But what was before the universe? God is always depicted as an elderly man with the grey hair and beard etc. So was he elderly when he made the universe? If so what did he do before?

He appears to have had a lot of time on his hands and if he is imortal I am guesing to get to looking like a 80 year old guy could have taken him actually around 80 million years or so, which means that if he can create our own infinite universe in just 6 days then asuming he has been around 80 million years he could have cretaed:

80,000,000 years

x 365 days=

29200000000 divide by 6=

4866666666 Other similar universe’s to ours exsisting and thats having every sunday off too!

Also the subject question still remains, who made god?
Is there a mummy and daddy god?

Am I a SIM?

I have never read the bible in its enterity, can someone tell me if this subject is approached in the bible? and are my questions answered?

Cheers[/quote]

Not sure if your questions are answered but isn’t God by definition omnipresent?

If there is no God what caused the Big Bang? And if there is a cause to the Big Bang then what caused it? And so on…

Something cannot appear out of nothing!

It is a proof of God’s existence.

St. Thomas called God the unmoved mover and Aristotle called this an uncaused cause.

the big bang is a theory…why does anything have to start? matter is always around never created or destroyed. we are all made out of the same thing atoms everything you see or hear is perception everything is the same thing… why does matter have to start somewhere it could have just been here forever.

we know nothing about how the world began. but if we are made of the same thing as the planet jupiter why would god care about us if there was a god…religion was made up by man and we dont know anything so how can you believe in god if its fiction…and how do you believe in jesus. Why would god make his reincaration a man we are special.

Their are species and rocks and chemical much cooler than us…(the big bang theory has to do with antimatter and matter and its now being created in super collider facilities… read one of the new scientific americas very intersting stuff)

The bible, like most holy books, is not full of answers. It is also not a historical account of the world.

…what it contains, like most holy books, are the keys to wisdom, and the truth of the human spirit. For in the end, you will not find the answers to your questions in any book - you will only find the answers deep within your own heart.

good luck on your seach, may you enjoy the journey for what it is, rather than miss everything on the way in the focused search for the destination.

[quote]electric_eales wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
semper_fi wrote:
I wonder if God actually created many other universes before ours, if he exists.

If your question is serious, I believe so. I think too many get caught up in only being able to mentally visualize “God” as being some old guy in a white robe. This is why so many relate the concept of a higher power to Santa Clause which is completely missing the point. If our reality is a creation, then our concept of “cause and effect” or time itself may be as well. If it were possible for an entity to live outside of that concept, there would be no beginning and no end…because time is only a factor in our universe.

Very interesting comment, which has some merit.

And that could be why the Bible says " one thousand years is like one day to the Lord."

Oh, and this being another religion thread is really going to make the God hating atheists mad…I mean really mad. They will be in here any minute. Look out!

“Prove there is a God Grrrrr…”

LOL

:slight_smile:

I cannot understand how in the 21st century you openly accept Christianity and god.

Do you not want to know when, where, how and why?

You are following the teachings of this book that gives you no further explanation, than:

do as I say, and do not question me worship me reguarlly then after you die you will be allowed into heaven.

Do you not want to know a litle more?
Do you not want to know what god did before he cretaed our universe, or after?

Do you not want to know who or what he is and why he did it?

If i was to buy into this bullshit I would need to know a whole load more than whats written in the bible.[/quote]

You have a limited view of the bible and a relationship with God. I seem to remember you saying somewhere that you have never read the bible. Why is it so hard to believe in a God or Creator? If God did not create everything then what/who did? I believe that God has always existed (Genesis). I?m sure a lot of Theists are curious how and why. I know that I am. A better place to start is with whom. The Bible is the key to who God is. Try starting there and maybe you will find the answers that you are looking for.

Me Solomon Grundy

[quote]Solomon Grundy wrote:
electric_eales wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
semper_fi wrote:
I wonder if God actually created many other universes before ours, if he exists.

If your question is serious, I believe so. I think too many get caught up in only being able to mentally visualize “God” as being some old guy in a white robe. This is why so many relate the concept of a higher power to Santa Clause which is completely missing the point. If our reality is a creation, then our concept of “cause and effect” or time itself may be as well. If it were possible for an entity to live outside of that concept, there would be no beginning and no end…because time is only a factor in our universe.

Very interesting comment, which has some merit.

And that could be why the Bible says " one thousand years is like one day to the Lord."

Oh, and this being another religion thread is really going to make the God hating atheists mad…I mean really mad. They will be in here any minute. Look out!

“Prove there is a God Grrrrr…”

LOL

:slight_smile:

I cannot understand how in the 21st century you openly accept Christianity and god.

Do you not want to know when, where, how and why?

You are following the teachings of this book that gives you no further explanation, than:

do as I say, and do not question me worship me reguarlly then after you die you will be allowed into heaven.

Do you not want to know a litle more?
Do you not want to know what god did before he cretaed our universe, or after?

Do you not want to know who or what he is and why he did it?

If i was to buy into this bullshit I would need to know a whole load more than whats written in the bible.

You have a limited view of the bible and a relationship with God. I seem to remember you saying somewhere that you have never read the bible. Why is it so hard to believe in a God or Creator? If God did not create everything then what/who did? I believe that God has always existed (Genesis). I?m sure a lot of Theists are curious how and why. I know that I am. A better place to start is with whom. The Bible is the key to who God is. Try starting there and maybe you will find the answers that you are looking for.

Me Solomon Grundy

[/quote]

Why did things have to start? if things had to start somewhere then who created god? its a redundant circle leading to the fact that matter has always been meanign there is no need for a single deity…thats just my opinion.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
what do you lack? strength? intelligence? moral fortitude? an arm?

You lack the ability to live and act as truly moral person. Man is morally flawed.

[/quote]

Sorry for butting in on this thread but…

No I don’t. No I’m not. Morality is subjective.