Who Killed The Electric Car

Here’s something worth watching.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7202740060236675590

Sigh. Until an Electric vehicle can be recharged in under 10 minutes, it will remain a nonviable substitute for an internal combustion based vehicle. That is why the Electric car failed, and still fails today. We lack the ability to recharge it quickly.

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
Sigh. Until an Electric vehicle can be recharged in under 10 minutes, it will remain a nonviable substitute for an internal combustion based vehicle. That is why the Electric car failed, and still fails today. We lack the ability to recharge it quickly. [/quote]

Have several batteries ready. That way, you just switch batteries. I have worked in a warehouse before and I know the batteries can weigh hundreds, even thousands of pounds, so just have a manual battery extractor ready that you can use to pull them out and put new ones in. Simple I think.

The electric car is a stupid idea. Most electrical plants are based on fossil fuel and are less efficient than a petrol combustion engine, resulting in more pollution per unit of energy. Add to that the effect of the chemicals the battery is composed of, and electric cars are just not a solution.

Part of me feels I’m missing something because I have never heard anyone bring up these points, ever.

Ignore this if you like the electric car because you feel it’d be cheaper to run rather than because you’re a hippy.

[quote]BestDaddyEver wrote:
Malevolence wrote:
Sigh. Until an Electric vehicle can be recharged in under 10 minutes, it will remain a nonviable substitute for an internal combustion based vehicle. That is why the Electric car failed, and still fails today. We lack the ability to recharge it quickly.

Have several batteries ready. That way, you just switch batteries. I have worked in a warehouse before and I know the batteries can weigh hundreds, even thousands of pounds, so just have a manual battery extractor ready that you can use to pull them out and put new ones in. Simple I think.[/quote]

that doesn’t sound too ‘simple’ to me.

that sounds like replacing an engine with an engine crank; but doing this ALOT more often.

thats’ stupid, do you honestly think that every jonny pencile pusher and mary homemaker is going to want to swap out hundreds or thousands of pounds of batteries; even with the help of a winch? i know we are all super smart and strong t-people here…but we are still the minority in the world.

for the time being i think that gas/electic hybrids are a fantastic way to get around. i wish my scion TC had an electric engine to get me around between 0-25mph; where i spend roughly 30% of the time when i’m driving. that would greatly improve my 30mph i currently get.

…or we need to find a way to make a longer lasting battery that we can plug in at night for a few hours. something that one charge/full battery will last many many hours or miles.

[quote]will to power wrote:
Ignore this if you like the electric car because you feel it’d be cheaper to run rather than because you’re a hippie. [/quote]

So many people reject an idea because of some label or stigma that got attached to it along the way.
Just because something is friendly to the environment doesn’t make it some hippie thing! Getting away from fossil fuels is a good idea… PERIOD. Perhaps we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in abroad if there were no issue with oil.

Like all technologies, the electric car is a good idea, yet can become a great idea with more advances(which would include smaller, faster-charging cells). It’ll come. But with big oil in everyone’s back pockets, it’ll be a lot slower coming along. An educated and informed public will definitely help swing the pendulum.

[quote]will to power wrote:
Most electrical plants are based on fossil fuel and are less efficient than a petrol combustion engine, resulting in more pollution per unit of energy. [/quote]

Do you have any links to back up the claims that electrical plants are less efficient than an ICE? I had always heard that electrical plants were more efficient.

bpeck

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
will to power wrote:
Ignore this if you like the electric car because you feel it’d be cheaper to run rather than because you’re a hippie.

So many people reject an idea because of some label or stigma that got attached to it along the way.
Just because something is friendly to the environment doesn’t make it some hippie thing! Getting away from fossil fuels is a good idea… PERIOD. Perhaps we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in abroad if there were no issue with oil.

Like all technologies, the electric car is a good idea, yet can become a great idea with more advances(which would include smaller, faster-charging cells). It’ll come. But with big oil in everyone’s back pockets, it’ll be a lot slower coming along. An educated and informed public will definitely help swing the pendulum.
[/quote]

Did you only read that part of my post or do you just have no reading comprehension? I reject the electric car because I believe it creates a greater environmental impact, and was just explaining the audience to whom my argument would matter. I don’t mean hippie’s literally either, so don’t start that.

And even if we switch all our power plants from fossil fuels to something more environmentally friendly, electric cars would still be stupid because of the impact the batteries cause. Hydrogen cells at that point would become a good thing [whereas right now in most place they would be again, worse than petrol engines].

Sorry no, I got the information talking to engineers. Someone more knowledgeable may be able to back up or debunk that claim though.

[quote]will to power wrote:

Do you have any links to back up the claims that electrical plants are less efficient than an ICE? I had always heard that electrical plants were more efficient.

bpeck

Sorry no, I got the information talking to engineers. Someone more knowledgeable may be able to back up or debunk that claim though.[/quote]

A powerplant is more efficient than a car engine but when you factor in the many losses between the plant and and the electric car this advantage becomes smaller.

Also electric cars must use electricity to heat the passenger cabin and power the AC, radio etc. Gas cars generate the electricity needed for these things by using power that would otherwise be wasted.

All told I think electric cars are still more efficient but very problematic. The batteries wear out and disposal is a pain in the ass. Gas powered cars are more easily recycled. The range of electric cars suck. Charge times are too long.

There are applications where electric cars make sense, but not for most people.

Here’s a link to an article that ran in NYC about two weeks back.

http://cbs5.com/consumer/electric.car.delorean.2.750184.html

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
A powerplant is more efficient than a car engine but when you factor in the many losses between the plant and and the electric car this advantage becomes smaller.

Also electric cars must use electricity to heat the passenger cabin and power the AC, radio etc. Gas cars generate the electricity needed for these things by using power that would otherwise be wasted.

All told I think electric cars are still more efficient but very problematic. The batteries wear out and disposal is a pain in the ass. Gas powered cars are more easily recycled. The range of electric cars suck. Charge times are too long.

There are applications where electric cars make sense, but not for most people.[/quote]

Wouldn’t hydrogen cells be a better option then? Networks have been set up in a few places so it seems practical, and they seem to circumvent at least a few of the electric car’s problems.

[quote]will to power wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
A powerplant is more efficient than a car engine but when you factor in the many losses between the plant and and the electric car this advantage becomes smaller.

Also electric cars must use electricity to heat the passenger cabin and power the AC, radio etc. Gas cars generate the electricity needed for these things by using power that would otherwise be wasted.

All told I think electric cars are still more efficient but very problematic. The batteries wear out and disposal is a pain in the ass. Gas powered cars are more easily recycled. The range of electric cars suck. Charge times are too long.

There are applications where electric cars make sense, but not for most people.

Wouldn’t hydrogen cells be a better option then? Networks have been set up in a few places so it seems practical, and they seem to circumvent at least a few of the electric car’s problems.[/quote]

Absolutely but we need many more hydrogen stations.

Power plants are more efficient, as Zap said, but the batteries required to make such a car viable leave a huge environmental footprint, and require use of lots of toxic metals that are extremely difficult and problematic to dispose of. Until someone comes through with a major breakthrough in energy storage it’s always going to be more efficient in terms of modern technology to generate energy on board the car. Hyrdogen cells are the future in this regards.

It just so happens that we are on the cusp of some potentially game-changing battery techs. But, it will likely be a few years before we know for certain if they are feasible.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

All told I think electric cars are still more efficient but very problematic. The batteries wear out and disposal is a pain in the ass. Gas powered cars are more easily recycled. The range of electric cars suck. Charge times are too long.

There are applications where electric cars make sense, but not for most people.[/quote]

/thread.

That’s basically all there is to say on the subject. Barring the development of more sophisticated batteries that are higher capacity, faster charging and don’t wear out and leave toxic waste in their wake. We’re unlikely to see an Electric vehicle that really makes sense for even small percentage of the population.

W2P,

Power plant efficiency hasn’t gone up much in a long time. Car engines, on the other hand, made some progress. But to say that the latter is more efficient is pure horseshit. And I don’t care what “engineer” told you that…

Now, electric cars aren’t the panacea some like to pretend it is. But it is superior to what we have now, be it only because of the modularity. As of now, any improvement means replacing whole cars. With electric, you just change the electricity generating source - and, maybe, the battery.

The best argument in favor of electric (even ahead of the $142 barrel), is the often overlooked fact that you generally spend most of your car-time in urban settings.

[quote]lixy wrote:
W2P,

Power plant efficiency hasn’t gone up much in a long time. Car engines, on the other hand, made some progress. But to say that the latter is more efficient is pure horseshit. And I don’t care what “engineer” told you that…
[/quote]

I’ve accepted that. Looking up some of the figures I think she was using old, minimum efficiency figures, which I think relates to her being in the solar power industry. It seems so obvious in hindsight.

[quote]
Now, electric cars aren’t the panacea some like to pretend it is. But it is superior to what we have now, be it only because of the modularity. As of now, any improvement means replacing whole cars. With electric, you just change the electricity generating source - and, maybe, the battery.

The best argument in favor of electric (even ahead of the $142 barrel), is the often overlooked fact that you generally spend most of your car-time in urban settings. [/quote]

Okay, so I’m turned around on my opinion after reading everyone’s responses.

I did some reading and from what I’ve seen apparently electric cars are more efficient than hydrogen cars. My main source; http://www.efcf.com/reports/E04.pdf

Anyway mind confirming or refuting it?

[quote]BestDaddyEver wrote:
Have several batteries ready. That way, you just switch batteries. I have worked in a warehouse before and I know the batteries can weigh hundreds, even thousands of pounds, so just have a manual battery extractor ready that you can use to pull them out and put new ones in. Simple I think.[/quote]

Or make it a requirement that all people can clean and jerk 200lbs.

Hybrid bio-diesel is where it’s at.

I think I saw an estimate for the MPG rating for rapeseed oil at around 145 mpg; now, imagine if you had a hybrid setup for slower speeds and that clean bio-diesel fuel for higher speeds.

Too bad the shitty Mercedes diesels of the 70s left a bad impression on the American public. Otherwise, diesel is a sweet - and durable - technology.