Who Can Beat Brock Lesnar?

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
What about Mariusz? He’s having his first MMA fight pretty soon, and has a karate background, and has trained boxing for a while. Strength wise, he can hang with Brock, but if it goes to the ground, but maybe not if it goes to the ground.

But, Pudz background is in strongman, Lesnar in wrestling. Lesnar has been training MMA for 3 years now, not for sure about Pudz. In the end though, I think Lesnar beats him due to skill.[/quote]

wow

[quote]The Austrian Oak wrote:
FFMatt wrote:
If it stays standing, Carwin could easily knock him out.

I heard that Carwin is supposed to be a better wrestler than Brock.

If Mir wanted it bad enough he could beat him on the ground again.

[/quote]

wow

[quote]LUEshi wrote:
Overeem Fedor Werdum Sodokojou Carwin Velasquez Rogers and Big Nog could all easily outfight Lesnar, imo.

Superb athlete but his chin has yet to be tested and paired against a GOOD heavyweight striker or submission ace who can stuff his takedowns/stand with him, I don’t see him doing too well.[/quote]

wow

[quote]Come on LUE…I know you just didn’t mention Sokoudjou. You must of watched the DREAM Super-Hulk bout were he beat the always formidable Bob Sapp…haha.

Don’t get me wrong…he has the tools for LHW…but even then,his mental game is hit or miss.[/quote]

Sorry. Not sure I was particularly clear in my first message. I was saying IF the aforementioned fighters could avoid being taken down, then yes, there are quite a few heavies out there that can lay the smackdown on Lesnar. (Didn’t see the Sok-Sapp match. I think everyone pretty much knew what was going to happen and I was too busy trying to find video on Warren/Fernandes & Fernandes/Takaya)

In reality Lesnar’s wrestling gives him a huge advantages, of course. Just hypothesizing that if any of the aforementioned HW’s develop some really really good TD defense abilities overnight then the game changes dramatically.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
What about Mariusz? He’s having his first MMA fight pretty soon, and has a karate background, and has trained boxing for a while. Strength wise, he can hang with Brock, but if it goes to the ground, but maybe not if it goes to the ground.

But, Pudz background is in strongman, Lesnar in wrestling. Lesnar has been training MMA for 3 years now, not for sure about Pudz. In the end though, I think Lesnar beats him due to skill.

wow[/quote]

Hey just a thought. I didn’t say Pudz could beat him, I said Lesnar wins due to skill.

Since you said wow three times, who do YOU think can beat Lesnar?

[quote]dhickey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
BodyByGame20 wrote:
A lot of people seem to forget Brock’s college wrestling and that he’s been training in MMA now for a few years…
I’m not saying Carwin will be easy for Brock, no, I hope he tests Brock and forces Lesnar to show us a lot of what he’s got. I don’t see Carwin winning though, do I think he’ll receive a savage beating? No not really, most likely decision.

Also, Bobby may have only fought a few cans here and there, but, he’s gotta start somewhere right? He also carries a VERY similiar background to Brock, it would be interesting to say the least. I believe Lashley is a lot more powerful then Lesnar, which would make Brock’s usually game a little obsolete.

Dude, I mean this in the ncest way possible but talking with you is like talking to a door. If Lashley was even a potential threat he’d be in the UFC already.He’s not, so he’s not. Also, there quite a few people who’d lunchboc Lesnar. Shit, if Mir had actually fought that last fight instead of going for early submissions and the jumping knee of doom he coulda beat him. Lesnar will get exposed and all of the internet fanboys will be left suckling on Lesnars deflated speed bag teet and all will be right with the world…

EDIT: Also, no one has forgotten his wrestling experience or his introduction to mma.

Funny. You say this guy is like talking to a door and then you go on to talk about how Mir could have beaten Lesnar. He got fucking rag dolled and dominated.[/quote]

Dude, how many times can we go over this without you spitting Lesnars nut all over your keyboard. Mir got beat, but it was clear he completely abandoned his gameplan. He came in thinking he was gonna get an easy submission and Lesnar obviously proved otherwise. Lesnar held him on the ground, punched him in head until the whistle blew and still couldn’t knock him out. Round two Mir tags him a couple of times and had Lesnar’s head swimming. If he hadn’t of tried that ridiculous jumping knee, got away from the cage and stuck to what was working he’d of win. As someone else pointed out we’ve never seen Lesnars chin tested, but the few glancing shots he’s taken have clearly made him uncomfortable. And I don’t wanna hear any “of course he was uncomfortable, everyone is when they get hit in face…” nonsense, you know what I mean. I don’t dislike Lesnar. In fact the more I watch/think about his fights the more impressed I am that he is where he is. But, I think a lot of his opponents have kind of taken him lightly. Not as in they don’t respect him, as in they think they can walk through this fake wrestler 'cause he’s not a real fighter kinda thing. Carwin will not. If Carwin isn’t so nervous he floats or pulls his punches like he did early against Wellisch[sp?] he’s gonna lunchbox Lesnar, and it’s gonna be fucking awesome.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
BodyByGame20 wrote:
A lot of people seem to forget Brock’s college wrestling and that he’s been training in MMA now for a few years…
I’m not saying Carwin will be easy for Brock, no, I hope he tests Brock and forces Lesnar to show us a lot of what he’s got. I don’t see Carwin winning though, do I think he’ll receive a savage beating? No not really, most likely decision.

Also, Bobby may have only fought a few cans here and there, but, he’s gotta start somewhere right? He also carries a VERY similiar background to Brock, it would be interesting to say the least. I believe Lashley is a lot more powerful then Lesnar, which would make Brock’s usually game a little obsolete.

Dude, I mean this in the ncest way possible but talking with you is like talking to a door. If Lashley was even a potential threat he’d be in the UFC already.He’s not, so he’s not. Also, there quite a few people who’d lunchboc Lesnar. Shit, if Mir had actually fought that last fight instead of going for early submissions and the jumping knee of doom he coulda beat him. Lesnar will get exposed and all of the internet fanboys will be left suckling on Lesnars deflated speed bag teet and all will be right with the world…

EDIT: Also, no one has forgotten his wrestling experience or his introduction to mma.

Funny. You say this guy is like talking to a door and then you go on to talk about how Mir could have beaten Lesnar. He got fucking rag dolled and dominated.[/quote]

Yeah he did!!

Didn’t read everything…but I just want Brock to get beat up just so everyone doesn’t see him as some GOD of fighting.
Please Carwin…PLEASE do the deed.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
LUEshi wrote:
Overeem Fedor Werdum Sodokojou Carwin Velasquez Rogers and Big Nog could all easily outfight Lesnar, imo.

Superb athlete but his chin has yet to be tested and paired against a GOOD heavyweight striker or submission ace who can stuff his takedowns/stand with him, I don’t see him doing too well.

Come on LUE…I know you just didn’t mention Sokoudjou. You must of watched the DREAM Super-Hulk bout were he beat the always formidable Bob Sapp…haha.

Don’t get me wrong…he has the tools for LHW…but even then,his mental game is hit or miss. [/quote]

HAHAHA I LIKE WHEN CROCOP HIT HIM IN THE EYE AND SAPP STARTED CRYING!!! HAHAHA

[quote]blackngrey609 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
LUEshi wrote:
Overeem Fedor Werdum Sodokojou Carwin Velasquez Rogers and Big Nog could all easily outfight Lesnar, imo.

Superb athlete but his chin has yet to be tested and paired against a GOOD heavyweight striker or submission ace who can stuff his takedowns/stand with him, I don’t see him doing too well.

Come on LUE…I know you just didn’t mention Sokoudjou. You must of watched the DREAM Super-Hulk bout were he beat the always formidable Bob Sapp…haha.

Don’t get me wrong…he has the tools for LHW…but even then,his mental game is hit or miss.

HAHAHA I LIKE WHEN CROCOP HIT HIM IN THE EYE AND SAPP STARTED CRYING!!! HAHAHA
[/quote]

Sapp started crying because CroCop broke his orbital (cheek) bone in four places with one legkick.

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
blackngrey609 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
LUEshi wrote:
Overeem Fedor Werdum Sodokojou Carwin Velasquez Rogers and Big Nog could all easily outfight Lesnar, imo.

Superb athlete but his chin has yet to be tested and paired against a GOOD heavyweight striker or submission ace who can stuff his takedowns/stand with him, I don’t see him doing too well.

Come on LUE…I know you just didn’t mention Sokoudjou. You must of watched the DREAM Super-Hulk bout were he beat the always formidable Bob Sapp…haha.

Don’t get me wrong…he has the tools for LHW…but even then,his mental game is hit or miss.

HAHAHA I LIKE WHEN CROCOP HIT HIM IN THE EYE AND SAPP STARTED CRYING!!! HAHAHA

Sapp started crying because CroCop broke his orbital (cheek) bone in four places with one legkick.[/quote]

Ha, I almost corrected you before I realized you’re joking.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
blackngrey609 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
LUEshi wrote:
Overeem Fedor Werdum Sodokojou Carwin Velasquez Rogers and Big Nog could all easily outfight Lesnar, imo.

Superb athlete but his chin has yet to be tested and paired against a GOOD heavyweight striker or submission ace who can stuff his takedowns/stand with him, I don’t see him doing too well.

Come on LUE…I know you just didn’t mention Sokoudjou. You must of watched the DREAM Super-Hulk bout were he beat the always formidable Bob Sapp…haha.

Don’t get me wrong…he has the tools for LHW…but even then,his mental game is hit or miss.

HAHAHA I LIKE WHEN CROCOP HIT HIM IN THE EYE AND SAPP STARTED CRYING!!! HAHAHA

Sapp started crying because CroCop broke his orbital (cheek) bone in four places with one legkick.

Ha, I almost corrected you before I realized you’re joking.[/quote]

Actually, he did break his cheek bone, but it was with a punch, not a kick. My mistake.

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
blackngrey609 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
LUEshi wrote:
Overeem Fedor Werdum Sodokojou Carwin Velasquez Rogers and Big Nog could all easily outfight Lesnar, imo.

Superb athlete but his chin has yet to be tested and paired against a GOOD heavyweight striker or submission ace who can stuff his takedowns/stand with him, I don’t see him doing too well.

Come on LUE…I know you just didn’t mention Sokoudjou. You must of watched the DREAM Super-Hulk bout were he beat the always formidable Bob Sapp…haha.

Don’t get me wrong…he has the tools for LHW…but even then,his mental game is hit or miss.

HAHAHA I LIKE WHEN CROCOP HIT HIM IN THE EYE AND SAPP STARTED CRYING!!! HAHAHA

Sapp started crying because CroCop broke his orbital (cheek) bone in four places with one legkick.

Ha, I almost corrected you before I realized you’re joking.

Actually, he did break his cheek bone, but it was with a punch, not a kick. My mistake.[/quote]

Yeah, I thought you were making a joke about shattering a face with a leg kick. Pretty sure he broke Barnetts orbital bone as well. I really miss the old CroCop.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
blackngrey609 wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
LUEshi wrote:
Overeem Fedor Werdum Sodokojou Carwin Velasquez Rogers and Big Nog could all easily outfight Lesnar, imo.

Superb athlete but his chin has yet to be tested and paired against a GOOD heavyweight striker or submission ace who can stuff his takedowns/stand with him, I don’t see him doing too well.

Come on LUE…I know you just didn’t mention Sokoudjou. You must of watched the DREAM Super-Hulk bout were he beat the always formidable Bob Sapp…haha.

Don’t get me wrong…he has the tools for LHW…but even then,his mental game is hit or miss.

HAHAHA I LIKE WHEN CROCOP HIT HIM IN THE EYE AND SAPP STARTED CRYING!!! HAHAHA

Sapp started crying because CroCop broke his orbital (cheek) bone in four places with one legkick.

Ha, I almost corrected you before I realized you’re joking.

Actually, he did break his cheek bone, but it was with a punch, not a kick. My mistake.

Yeah, I thought you were making a joke about shattering a face with a leg kick. Pretty sure he broke Barnetts orbital bone as well. I really miss the old CroCop.[/quote]

QFT. CroCop is probably out fishing somewhere, may never see him again :frowning:

At 103, if I heard correctly, Goldberg said CroCop has the record for most MMA victories via kicks. I wouldn’t be surprised. As CroCop says, “right leg hospital, left leg cemetary.”

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
BodyByGame20 wrote:
A lot of people seem to forget Brock’s college wrestling and that he’s been training in MMA now for a few years…
I’m not saying Carwin will be easy for Brock, no, I hope he tests Brock and forces Lesnar to show us a lot of what he’s got. I don’t see Carwin winning though, do I think he’ll receive a savage beating? No not really, most likely decision.

Also, Bobby may have only fought a few cans here and there, but, he’s gotta start somewhere right? He also carries a VERY similiar background to Brock, it would be interesting to say the least. I believe Lashley is a lot more powerful then Lesnar, which would make Brock’s usually game a little obsolete.

Dude, I mean this in the ncest way possible but talking with you is like talking to a door. If Lashley was even a potential threat he’d be in the UFC already.He’s not, so he’s not. Also, there quite a few people who’d lunchboc Lesnar. Shit, if Mir had actually fought that last fight instead of going for early submissions and the jumping knee of doom he coulda beat him. Lesnar will get exposed and all of the internet fanboys will be left suckling on Lesnars deflated speed bag teet and all will be right with the world…

EDIT: Also, no one has forgotten his wrestling experience or his introduction to mma. [/quote]

Dude you have no idea what your talking about. What do you mean about Lesnar being exposed? He’s already beat some of the better fighters there are. It doesnt matter if he loses now, its already been established that he is good. Im surprised how sure you are that Lashley isnt a threat. Sure he has fought bums but he didnt win with knockouts most cases, he won by physically dominating his opponent. Almost every sport has athletes that can succeed almost purely on physical superiority, Dwight Howard is a good example of an athlete that has enough of the requisite skill but gets by on his extraordinary strength and athleticism. Lashley I believe would dominate many of those you say are elite.

Also, Im not a die hard Lesnar fan, but like I said previously, he is beating the shit out of seasoned veterans who are far superior MMA fighters. I do think he has skill, but it is his overwhelming size, strength and speed that is the real key. I mean look at that fight vs. Mir. Look at the fucking size of Lesnar on top of Mir, just look at the mass of his upper body basically suffocating Mir.

Mir was lucky as SHIT in the first fight, sure it was a skilled move, and he took advantage of Lesnar’s lack of attention. But was being mauled, and that is exactly what happened in the second fight. For Mir to really beat Lesnar, not fluke beat him, he would need to fight him 15 times and become skilled at the art of fighting Brock Lesnar, because physically, he has no chance in hell.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
WhiteFlash wrote:
BodyByGame20 wrote:
A lot of people seem to forget Brock’s college wrestling and that he’s been training in MMA now for a few years…
I’m not saying Carwin will be easy for Brock, no, I hope he tests Brock and forces Lesnar to show us a lot of what he’s got. I don’t see Carwin winning though, do I think he’ll receive a savage beating? No not really, most likely decision.

Also, Bobby may have only fought a few cans here and there, but, he’s gotta start somewhere right? He also carries a VERY similiar background to Brock, it would be interesting to say the least. I believe Lashley is a lot more powerful then Lesnar, which would make Brock’s usually game a little obsolete.

Dude, I mean this in the ncest way possible but talking with you is like talking to a door. If Lashley was even a potential threat he’d be in the UFC already.He’s not, so he’s not. Also, there quite a few people who’d lunchboc Lesnar. Shit, if Mir had actually fought that last fight instead of going for early submissions and the jumping knee of doom he coulda beat him. Lesnar will get exposed and all of the internet fanboys will be left suckling on Lesnars deflated speed bag teet and all will be right with the world…

EDIT: Also, no one has forgotten his wrestling experience or his introduction to mma.

Dude you have no idea what your talking about. What do you mean about Lesnar being exposed? He’s already beat some of the better fighters there are. It doesnt matter if he loses now, its already been established that he is good. Im surprised how sure you are that Lashley isnt a threat. Sure he has fought bums but he didnt win with knockouts most cases, he won by physically dominating his opponent. Almost every sport has athletes that can succeed almost purely on physical superiority, Dwight Howard is a good example of an athlete that has enough of the requisite skill but gets by on his extraordinary strength and athleticism. Lashley I believe would dominate many of those you say are elite. [/quote]

You write that nonsense and you claim I don’t know what I’m talking about? Lasley would get merc’d out there. Aside from being really strong what else does he bring?. Dwight Howard benefits more from there not being any true centers left and the NBA letting hime get away with a lot 'cause they’re trying to promote him, a la Dwyane Wade and LeBron James, so get that shit outta here. If he played 15 years ago he’d be a middle of the pack center, and it’s just that simple. I wasn’t saying Lesnar wasn’t good. He is. I meant exposed as in he’s gonna lose and people are gonna stop praising him as the god of fighting when they realize he’s just a big strong wrestler, not some indestructible super hulk.

Mir has/had the tools to beat Lesnar…it’s silly to think otherwise. BUT when you don’t respect the other fighter’s abilities(Lesnar),you get your ass beat.

I see no one out there who is capable of beating Lesnar. He has a very high wrestling pedigree NCAA Champ among other titles. He’s learned to strike with power from a standing position, ask Couture and Herring. He’s learned to lengthen his punches on the ground, giving up the short ineffective choppy punshes he once threw, as Frank Mir. In short, he’s shown an ability to learn and grow. Shane Carwin will find out in about a month or so that having a similar style to Lesnar is not the way to beat him, as Lesnar will ultimately do it better.

Who can beat Brock Lesnar? No One. Brock Lesnar will hold the HW belt in the UFC as long as he continues to stay well disciplined with his training and continues to learn and grow as a fighter.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Dude, how many times can we go over this without you spitting Lesnars nut all over your keyboard.
[/quote]
As many times as it takes I guess. I have been a Mir fan for longer than I have been a Lesnar fan…in MMA at least.

So he couldn’t stuff the TD, couldn’t submit him, couldn’t get up, and couldn’t keep from receiving some of the most brutal GNP we’ve seen. Yep, he was in that fight all the way. So basically you are saying he has a striker’s chance of beating Lesnar. Like Kongo, Barry, or Hardonk I guess?

Did it look to you like he was trying to finish the fight or just hold position and beat him up a little bit? We’ve seen him do that before for 3 rounds.

yep that was a close one. Mir had him so rocked Lesnar was barely able to take him to the ground and pound the shit out of him.

This is fucking retarded. How many times did Lesanr take him down? Could of would of should of. What a bunch of shit. What if Lesnar would have let him back up after the first or second TD (can’t recall timeline)? He wouldn’t have taken any damage. But that doesn’t matter because he did let him and fight resumed.

Until someone is able to capitalize on this, what difference does it make? Mir couldn’t keep from getting taken down. He couldn’t stop complete domination once on the ground. He has some work to do before a rematch.

I know exactly what you mean. Until it effects his performance in the ring it’s silly to talk about.

Bullshit. you’v attempted to discredit him in countless threads. I take his performances and his strengths for what they are. You try and change the outcome of the fights he was in like his apponents were your video game.

This should have been pretty obvious even after the loss to Mir. he is starting with an incredible base that he has worked hard for years to attain. He is not a BJJ black belt. He is not going to win a belt in any striking organization. He is not going to olymics for wresting. He is simply and MMA HW that is currently at the top of the heap. Even if he loses to Carwin, his skills remain the same and poses the same problems to other HWs as he did before the fight. We are not going to see anything less that what he has shown us before. None of him fights are flukes.

as good of an excuse as any you’ve given I guess. I don’t think there is mutch doubt that HH did this, but do you really think Mir and Couture took him lightly? Mir looked better physically than I have ever seen him. He had improved his striking as well.

Maybe. If his TD defense or ability to avoid damage/get up are better than Mir’s, he should fair better than Mir did. It should be a competitive fight and match-up that we haven’t seen for either fighter.

I do believe Mir can make the necessary improvement to be competitive with Lesnar. The Mir that fought him on that night was not going to beat him. His striking was nulified and he was dominated in every other aspect of the fight. Could he have knocked him? Sure, but so could any of the HWs. Evaluating fights is not about hoping and dreaming someone lands the perfect shot at the perfect time.

We saw no evidense that Mir could keep from getting taken down that night. We saw no evidense that Mir could work towards a submission or get up once on the ground that night. We saw no evidens that Mir could avoid being pummled on the ground that night.

We saw Lesnar take him down on three seperate occasions, once while his head was “swimming”. We saw hinm avoid any type of submission attempt. We saw him completely dominate possition. We saw him finish the fight in brutal fasion.

Though we saw all of these things you still see a fight that Mir should have won. I don’t know what else to say.

You are obviously getting a hard on just thinking about the possibitly of Carwin knocking him out. Clearly I am the impartial one. sheesh