White Privilege

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
After getting past your very predictable God-doesn’t-go-to-that-other-church CatholicSpeak, I’m still glad your enjoying your parish. :)[/quote]

???

Lol. I’m sorry, this is too funny. Where did I say God doesn’t go to other communities?

I never said God doesn’t work through Protestants or that God is never with them, they still have two sacraments that God can work through with them: baptism and matrimony. It is very impressive what some Protestants do with only two sacraments, but I’ll stick with having all seven sacraments and the protection of the Holy Ghost.

Anyway, yes I am lucky to have an orthodoxy preacher and one that is personal. [/quote]

Brother Chris wrote:
I’ll refrain from explaining right now how the Southern Baptist Convention ain’t the Church, and how it doesn’t have the Holy Ghost’s protection. And, how I’d rather sit still in silence during service before I’d go to a service without the Real Presence in the Eucharist[/quote]

What do you mean you don’t get it? You expressed yourself perfectly.

  1. Baptist church is somehow ‘less’ that Catholic Church
  2. The Holy Ghost (God) doesn’t protect the Baptist Church
  3. ‘Real’ Presence of God is not present in Baptist Communion
    All the above equals God-doesnt-go-to-that-other-church CatholicSpeak

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
What do you mean you don’t get it? You expressed yourself perfectly.

  1. Baptist church is somehow ‘less’ that Catholic Church
  2. The Holy Ghost (God) doesn’t protect the Baptist Church
  3. ‘Real’ Presence of God is not present in Baptist Communion
    All the above equals God-doesnt-go-to-that-other-church CatholicSpeak
    [/quote]

Um, no.

First, your number three. Ask a Southern Baptist if their Lord’s Supper has the ‘Real Presence’ (not the ‘Real’ Presence, it is one theological phrase) that is taught by the Catholic Church. They will think you are a buffoon, they don’t believe in the ‘Real Presence.’ The Southern Baptist Convention rejects the teaching that the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ is really present in the Lord’s Supper, they think it is a symbol.

Second, the other two are Catholic doctrine and Biblical. There is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church and that Church is forever protected by the advocate that we call the Holy Ghost.

However, that doesn’t mean that God doesn’t work through protestants. If God can work through a pagan king’s dream he can work through those who love him and have the grace from two of his seven sacraments and the will to do his Will.

Just because I don’t want to leave the one Church that is protected by the Advocate, that contains the Real Presence in the Eucharist (and the other six sacraments), doesn’t mean I don’t think God doesn’t work in protestant communities or that the Church teaches that God doesn’t. :slight_smile:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
What do you mean you don’t get it? You expressed yourself perfectly.

  1. Baptist church is somehow ‘less’ that Catholic Church
  2. The Holy Ghost (God) doesn’t protect the Baptist Church
  3. ‘Real’ Presence of God is not present in Baptist Communion
    All the above equals God-doesnt-go-to-that-other-church CatholicSpeak
    [/quote]

Um, no.

First, your number three. Ask a Southern Baptist if their Lord’s Supper has the ‘Real Presence’ (not the ‘Real’ Presence, it is one theological phrase) that is taught by the Catholic Church. They will think you are a buffoon, they don’t believe in the ‘Real Presence.’ The Southern Baptist Convention rejects the teaching that the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ is really present in the Lord’s Supper, they think it is a symbol.

Second, the other two are Catholic doctrine and Biblical. There is one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church and that Church is forever protected by the advocate that we call the Holy Ghost.

However, that doesn’t mean that God doesn’t work through protestants. If God can work through a pagan king’s dream he can work through those who love him and have the grace from two of his seven sacraments and the will to do his Will.

Just because I don’t want to leave the one Church that is protected by the Advocate, that contains the Real Presence in the Eucharist (and the other six sacraments), doesn’t mean I don’t think God doesn’t work in protestant communities or that the Church teaches that God doesn’t. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Yes, the Baptists would think anyone was a buffoon who suggested that their communion contained literal flesh and literal blood – if that’s what you mean by ‘Real’ Presense. If that was the case, why have blood drives? Just go to your local communion. Or Catholic priest…in your case. Is this a fund-raising opportunity the Catholics have overlooked?

I’m talking about the Presence of Christ and the Holy Ghost — outside of the Catholic Church specifically.

At least it’s good to see you acknowledge God’s workings in the Protestant community. There is a glimmer of progress!

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
Yes, the Baptists would think anyone was a buffoon who suggested that their communion contained literal flesh and literal blood – if that’s what you mean by ‘Real’ Presense. If that was the case, why have blood drives? Just go to your local communion. Or Catholic priest…in your case. Is this a fund-raising opportunity the Catholics have overlooked?[/quote]

Just curious, how much time have you taken to study Catholicism?

Yes, the par excellence of presence of Christ and the Holy Ghost is in the Catholic Church. I’m not going to leave that for mere presence in another community, as much as I would go to the woods because of the presence of God in nature. Here is a quote that doesn’t do my urges justice:

I’m like a fiend when it comes to the Eucharist. I get withdrawls when I don’t take communion daily.

[quote]At least it’s good to see you acknowledge God’s workings in the Protestant community. There is a glimmer of progress!
[/quote]

Not sure what this means, it’s not progress if I’ve always held it.

bump for @planetcybertron

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Typical white guy, exercising his privilege to tell me how to think.

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The thing with African Americans who plead white privilege, is that they’re trying correlate their own short comings, with the history of Slavery In America.

The thing with that is, anyone present in 2018, has not, ever, in their life, been enslaved by the standards that were held some 400 years ago in THIS country. While there may still be some people alive who were around during Segregation, they don’t necessarily represent the masses.

Most black folks you see angry, are merely showing how efficiently their emotions work when they see people of the same skin color being treated cruelly. And it’s a valid reason to be upset, but they try to resurrect actions and protocols that are no longer around, and correlate the average everyday people to the people they’ve seen documented centuries ago, well, now you’re just allowing emotions to cloud your logic. It’s almost as if giant masses of black people think the people depicted in what’s been documented over history, are the same people they see walking around in today’s society.

Everyone mostly touts on this idea of “institutionalized racism”. But I need to see something, anything, that documents this occurring repeatedly, on a country wide scale. There are bound to be small instances of it happening, but I see nothing or have researched nothing that implies this happens on a grand scale.

I can’t support white privilege as something valid simply because In this country, you not only have opportunity, but you’ve got an influx Of people from different countries thriving off of opportunities and excelling. African Americans also like to throw their animosity towards the “wealthy, white 1%”. Obviously there’s bound to be a wealthy 1%, but they’re putting this into a perspective as if that 1% has anything to do with determining their success. It would make sense if the 1% allowed for all white families to excel at the expense of African American families, but then again, how can black people try to correlate the wealthy 1%, with their own shortcomings, when there are families from China, The Middle East, and Latin countries gathering wealth as well? Does it not also hold true that the wealthy 1% don’t necessarily give a shit about the mass of citizens in America that are also white, or European descent?

Then there’s the white privilege concerning society. Language, law enforcement, work etiquette, work dynamics, social dynamics. To extent, there’s a grey area with that too. Police brutality, getting out of a speeding ticket, who gets a job promotion, how people react in professional settings, advancement, how people treat each other in society, etc. I’ve gotten out of speeding tickets many times. As have others. I’ve been promoted. Why? Because I disciplined myself enough to excel. Individual anecdotes may not be as credible as written facts, but the fact that they even exist suggests that these instances of issues with police, people being rude/prejudice to each other at work, examples of professional issues being overlooked due to skin color, advancement, etc., are once again, rather individual. There’s plenty of situations where opposite and positive instances, completely similar, occur to African Americans, and any other ethnical group in this country.

That’s where I think this comes into play:

But what I think is crucial about this rather true statement, is that’s an individual thing. It’s something that has to resonate within the individual, and they then have to find that relevant, or something they dub important, or something bigger than themselves. And that’s where white priviledge starts to crumble when I think about it logically. Those who fail to experience struggle, or fail to empathize, or even realize this world does not operate around them, aren’t to blame for the short coming of African Americans in THIS country.

Violence, poverty, police brutality, etc. are real instances, but the states up North and anywhere else who are impoverished and ridden with crime, when will the actions of the residents of those states carried throughout the years come into play? States/Cities like Detroit, Chicago, New York, etc. the individuals in those states and the history of crime carried out by previous individuals in those same states shape the economical outcomes. Black on black crime is nearly triple vs. white on black crime. Lack of education, I’m sure correlated with poverty in those states, but my whole point, is this: at what point in time did the aid of the government become ineffective due to the actions of the individuals who reside in the area, this includes the actions of individuals over decades. How can African american communities want change when they’re killing each other over frivolous and idiotic things such as a pair of shoes? When will they stop falling victim to this facade portrayed by the media that you have to act a certain way, or that your essence as a person is determined by money, sex, drugs, and women? People shout that black folks are misrepresented in the media, but society is only mimicking what they see. The loud, boisterous, violent, un-educated dark skinned individual. And they aren’t wrong, because giant masses of African Americans have yet to change themselves in order to change how they think they’re being represented. I think people are trying to gain success by any means necessary, but would it not be logical to pursue a career, than to see how many kilos of coke you can move, or how many people you can kill in a gang, or how many men/women you can sleep with, or how well you play off of others insecurities to feel powerful?

The intelligent individuals in this country, be they whatever ethnicity understand stereotypes to only hold as much gravity as you allow them to. And that’s where experience comes into play. Getting to know the man or woman to your right. And thats where stereotypes die. As mentioned before, it’s up to the individual to swing the pendulum of change.

You cannot correlate individual shortcomings with something as grandiose as systemic/institutional racism on a national level, thats claimed to be caused by the ever so mysterious wealthy 1%, thats supposedly overseen and advocated by the United States government who is presumed to be the manifestation of the historical large governing body centuries ago that promoted the Slavery we read about in history books. I believe the wealthy 1% do influence political decisions, but I refuse to believe they do so because they have some personal vendetta against African americans. They’re after money. And they will do by any means what they wish regardless of who suffers. White, black, Hispanic, Asian, middle eastern, and whoever else is dubbed a citizen in the U.S. I know that sounds brow raising just reading what I said right now, but that’s pretty much the logic behind all of what African americans think concerning this subject.

And African Americans as well other people who feel wronged are wording this whole thing in a way, that’s making people feel guilty. How can people feel the need to apologize for something that isn’t even operating from their own personal doings and ways of thinking?

As an African american woman in this country, no one has to apologize for my shortcomings, and I do not have to apologize for anyone else’s. I understand what has happened in this country in the past, but at the age of 22, living in the state of Texas, there’s practically opportunity being thrown at me. DAILY. And I haven’t even contributed to society, practically at all. Besides paying some income tax, working on my credit, going to school, and working a decent job.

So for white people in this country: Quit apologizing for shit that has absolutely NOTHING to do with you.

Rant over.

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And could you please not be so loud in movie theaters?

I’ll try to chew my popcorn a bit more quietly lol

But on a serious note, I apologize if I should’ve worded that differently.

Great post!

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Great post, PC.

An anecdote, re:

During The Ferguson riots, my wife got a message from a college friend stating that she felt betrayed because my wife didn’t reach out to her and apologize for what was occurring. The message went on for pages about how she felt, and how insensitive my wife and I were. Neither my wife or I had said anything on social media or otherwise. It was simply because we didn’t apologize to her for ‘having to go through this’.

Her friend doesn’t even live in the same time zone

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That can’t be real, right? You’re trollin, right?

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We all must know someone who is mentally ill.

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I turned 18 and promptly committed a crime that landed me in jail. Big kids jail, on a range (row of cells stacked up to make a block) with a bunch of very bad mother fu… Anyways, there was this guy that would yell at the top of his lungs after lockdown about crackers and motherfuckers and how the man was keeping him down.

So one night I waited till he quieted down for a second and yelled at the top of my lungs “Then What The Fuck Am I Doing Here?!?!?!?”

I then became known as thatcrazyfuckincracka.

I’ve never been much of a fan of putting back cookies I didn’t steal.

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No…

Couldn’t be more right

I’m not going to debate the existence of white privilege right now, I’d just like to ask a question.

Given that there are many, many people still alive who were born pre-civil rights, and even many who can remember such a time, does anybody believe that those wrongs/injustices/imbalances should have totally resolved themselves in one generation’s time?

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I think it comes down to the individuals and the efforts they put forth. People cite intergenerational wealth, opportunity etc. as reasons white people have an advantage.

I’ve seen too many people come from nothing and do well and too many come from affluence or downright rich and blow it all to agree with that.

Even within the bunch that is my family, there is a wide range. We (my brothers and sis) started pretty much from scratch. Both parents were alcoholic and drug addicts who died early in our lives, broke. They really didn’t leave anything behind other than hurt feelings and a pretty big funeral bill. Unfortunately, my sister hasn’t done well. She has succumbed to a mental illness and is currently homeless. I’ve done OK and have managed to land on my feet smack in the middle of middle class. If and when my kid wants to, arrangements are being made so that he’ll be able to attend college. Two other bros already have that in the bag and the third is comfortably in the green.

Thats very few words to cover several decades of hard work. There hasn’t been any privilege. There has been a lot of sweat equity, overtime, double time, self development and self funded education.

The above is why when I hear “white privilege” getting tossed around I get kind of pissed off. It sounds like an attempt to minimize the hard work and dedication required to Build a good life. There wasn’t any white privilege or secret handshakes when me and my buddy started a tree company with a chainsaw and a piece of rope. None when my brothers put in a career in the Navy and were deployed to the gulf, and none that are going to treat my sisters mental illness or restore what she has lost as a result of it.

There really isn’t. There’s what you put in to life and what you get out of it. That’s all.

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If it wasn’t for that Austrian mustachioed guy, I’d be rolling in some serious cash. And I mean serious - dating actresses and supermodels, being regularly mentioned on TMZ, accumulating DUIs after (repeatedly) crashing my Chiron under the influence of god-knows-which illegal substances.

My grand-grandfather was a wealthy industrialist with some serious money to burn, hanging out with the rich and famous, including Hollywood stars. After WW2 ended, in which the Nazis gassed him, the communists took over by decree what was left of his business empire. My grandmother, having survived, went from being a spoiled rich heiress to a cleaning lady in a span of six years, with her assets were reduced from villas, chalets, gold bars and overflowing checking accounts to one gold ring and some yellowed family photographs.

She cleaned hallways and apartments for forty five years while reminiscing about the French Riviera, Alpine chalets and Douglas Fairbanks because bourgeois capitalists had to atone for their sins according to communists.

However in a span of two generations, from the hard reset which reduced the family wealth to zero, literally all of her descendants are very successful - both financially and in their respective professional fields. From medical doctors (yeah, the stereotypes are true), to professional soldiers, businessmen and even one cough cough civil engineer. Almost half of us have a PhD.

So, where’s the inherent privilege that supposedly helped me and my relatives?

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Well first and foremost you’re white, therefore boobs.

The intellectual rigor you exercised to be awarded a PhD is just a byproduct of the previously established axiom.

Therefore, white privilege.

That’s how I logic. Break through that circle of reasoning! (Come at me bro!)

Edit: I forgot secret handshakes.

Edit # 2: And if white privilege Is such a potent social vector, why are so many black people doing better than me?

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