White Privilege

[pfury]

@oglebee

It was those fields within the humanities and social sciences that have a disproportionate amount of power on college campuses and whose growth has helped spawn this outrage culture among other things that we now find ourselves in.

Ahhhhhh. So the college of business, nursing, et Al?

@oglebee

So whats the issue with the “lies”

Yeah who cares about lies as long as you claim you were lying for a good reason all along

@oglebee

The issue is that the 7 articles they did get published got published at all regardless to the absurdity of their content.

I agree. That is AN issue here.

@oglebee

I am not as smart as you I don’t know what this means.

Google is your friend

@oglebee

If your going to intentionally remain ignorant fine

I guess I could always look to the fake news distributors trying to expose ‘the truth’ for my sources.

@oglebee

Take a look and we can discuss further.

Oh I don’t plan to. As I said previously, I don’t really care what’s going on on college campuses. It comes nowhere near ranking important enough vs the other issues off today.

I had mostly commented to agree with you that they were spreading fake news to further their political agenda. Since you have since recanted that very logical view, I’ll bow out here.

[oglebee]

@pfury

Oh I don’t plan to. As I said previously, I don’t really care what’s going on on college campuses. It comes nowhere near ranking important enough vs the other issues off today.

I had mostly commented to agree with you that they were spreading fake news to further their political agenda. Since you have since recanted that very logical view, I’ll bow out here.

I never once said that. So you were agreeing with me on something I never even said.

How logical is it to comment on this subject and claim its another bogeyman fabricated by the GOP when you admitted you have never investigated any of the claims I’ve brought forth. That makes a whole lot of sense.

[BrickHead]

Back to the title of the thread. How does one ameliorate the issue of privilege, besides understanding, which can’t even be measured and can be lied about? It’s not hard to say, “I understand.”

Also, should one relinquish what one has, whether through actual privilege or not? If so, what besides a job should be relinquished (as people know, I’m aware of that good ol’ American fixation on McJobs, supposedly the only things that make society go around.)

What happens in the case of arranged marriages for people of some cultures residing in America? Should they file for divorce? Clearly they had an advantage in finding a mate and starting a family rather than possibly going through the nightmare of dating in the current day.

What about the familial scene of a place of worship or cultural practice or gathering and all the perks that come with such a societal institution (eg, McJob connections, mentors, godmothers or -fathers, friends, etc.) Should people stop going to churches and other places of worship?

What if someone acquired friends because the friends they made felt they had more in common with people of the same ethnicity or race? Should he give up his friends. I mean, what if someone found a mate or McJob through a friend? What if someone got a McJob, and then after shaking hands and hugging after the deal was made, the employer-friend-homeboy says, “Dis is our little t’ing. We gotta look out for one annuda,” (a clear case of nepotism to a fly on the wall)?

What should we do with near-entire industries in which the majority of employees or at least the people who call the shots, own companies, or take up much of the higher management, are of the same ethnicity?

Serious questions.

[SkyzykS]

@BrickHead

, “Dis is our little t’ing. We gotta look out for one annuda,” (a clear case of nepotism to a fly on the wall)?

That’s a lot of fields where critical situations can and do arise, and when they do you absolutely need to be able to trust and rely on your coworker.

[zecarlo]

You used the term pedantic.

[zecarlo]

@pfury

To discredit academia (control by the liburuls) and scientific journals (same)

I agree that was their intent but they failed. Most of their submissions were rejected and given the large number of journals out there the few that actual published their papers represent a tiny fraction of the total number.

[zecarlo]

@oglebee

The issue is that the 7 articles they did get published got published at all regardless to the absurdity of their content.

7 out of how many total journals?

[zecarlo]

@BrickHead

Serious questions.

Each of which should have its own thread.

[pfury]

@zecarlo

I agree that was their intent but they failed.

Eh. They’ve clearly got supporters eating it up. It’s hard to fail these days when you produce what people already crave.

@zecarlo

7 out of how many total journals?

No way in hell they’d ever release that number, and is probably why they didn’t talk about it already. It wouldn’t fit into their obvious political agenda that oglebee nailed from the start

[zecarlo]

@pfury

No way in hell they’d ever release that number, and is probably why they didn’t talk about it already. It wouldn’t fit into their obvious political agenda that oglebee nailed from the start

Exactly. All they proved is that there are a few journals out there that will publish anything. They proved nothing about the validity of the disciplines they are attacking or that they are saturated with leftist loonies. And if they claim to have proven more than that then they are as guilty of bad science and poor logic as those they tried to mock.

[pfury]

@zecarlo

Exactly. All they proved is that there are a few journals out there that will publish anything. They proved nothing about the validity of the disciplines they are attacking or that they are saturated with leftist loonies. And if they claim to have proven more than that then they are as guilty of bad science and poor logic as those they tried to mock.

What a thrilling discovery. In the year 2018 we have found that the internet will grant a platform to anyone for the right price.

And what’s that? There’s more? The free market produced this avenue to publish anything? The only way to fix this problem is to impose regulations on the free market?

I, for one, am floored at their discoveries.

[BrickHead]

Can you reply to at least one?

@SkyzykS @oglebee are two level headed dudes. I’d really like them to chime in.

[oglebee]

@zecarlo

You used the term pedantic.

Ok thats what prompted the slew of insults you hurled at me. You must either be a very sensitive guy or have a huge ego. Maybe both?

Pedantic is hardly an insult and you are a smart guy I am sure you would been able to realize my intent was not malicious. Also weren’t we discussing who brought up education and financial income first? Your doing a little swap there zecarlo.

Either way I am not keen to discuss further wether you were a dick or not. I think it would be best if you reserved the insults for when they are truly warranted. But obviously you’er gonna do you and I am gonna do me.

@pfury

Eh. They’ve clearly got supporters eating it up. It’s hard to fail these days when you produce what people already crave.

Says the guy who admitted his own ignorance on the subject.

@pfury

What a thrilling discovery. In the year 2018 we have found that the internet will grant a platform to anyone for the right price.

And what’s that? There’s more? The free market produced this avenue to publish anything? The only way to fix this problem is to impose regulations on the free market?

I, for one, am floored at their discoveries.

Not all the journals that published their hoax work were the low brow predatory journals that activitiesguy referenced. Some have been around for near 30 years and are well established and widely accepted.

@pfury

Eh. They’ve clearly got supporters eating it up. It’s hard to fail these days when you produce what people already crave.

Says the guy who is unwilling to look into anything that doesn’t conform to the narrative in his own head.

I tell you there might be some issues going on at college campuses. I reference several members of academia who have spoke to great length on it. I reference several incidents at college campuses.

Your response. I don’t really care enough to look into that. Its never been very high up on my list of priorities.

Ok fine. Stop commenting on something like you have any actual input to contribute when you have no idea what I am even talking about in the first place.

Not saying I am not willing to have a discussion but at least put a little effort check some of things I mentioned and come back.

Don’t just sit back scream its a bogeyman fabricated by the GOP.

@zecarlo

Exactly. All they proved is that there are a few journals out there that will publish anything. They proved nothing about the validity of the disciplines they are attacking or that they are saturated with leftist loonies. And if they claim to have proven more than that then they are as guilty of bad science and poor logic as those they tried to mock.

I think this point could be argued although I definitely have to agree with you. As activitiesguy also mentioned their methodology was not sufficient to make the claim that these journals will publish anything provided it conforms to their narrative. But as I admitted that was my hastily written 2 sentence summary of what they said they did. That was not actually their intention. They made no such claims.

All they wanted to do from what I gathered was showcase the low standards of these journals and perhaps extrapolate certain inferences from there. Maybe just raise awareness and get a dialogue going.

This was not an actual research project.

I suspect you all are being super critical and holding these fellows to incredibly high standards because you disagree with their assertion that there is something going on in acedmia and it needs to be addressed.

I appreciate the input. I originally though the post was relevant to the thread but I think I will try to keep my posts more related to the title as BrickHead suggested.

[oglebee]

Ok I am going to type a few of my thoughts on privilege.

Of course it exists. It is a thing.

Does white privilege exist?

Yes it does. It exists just as Han privilege exists in China.

Or Arab/Muslim privilege exists in arab and Muslim nations.

Point being there will inherently be certain privilege to those belonging to the majority.

I say this for many reasons. Often I’ve heard. Hollywood only makes moves for white people. These companies only make products for white people. Etc etc. I’ve heard this so many times on so many issues and it being referred to as yet another example of white privilege.

I also mention this because there is resentment and animosity towards white people for these things that are just a natural part of belonging to the largest group with a country.

I am Jewish. I went to a fast food restaurant they didn’t have any kosher burgers. Now I have to wast time finding a kosher spot. Those Christians will never understand how good they have it with their Christian privilege.

Certain privileges have been bestowed upon minority groups as well.

Black people can get into universities and grad schools with significantly lower GPAs and test scores. I am not arguing against this practice or why it was started or anything like that. But that certainly is a special preference for them that gives them an advantage when applying.

Anecdotally, because I haven’t seen an data to support this although I am sure its out there and I will be surprised if anyone disagrees with it. Black people can say certain off color remarks without fear of reprisal and be labeled a racist. Certainly not the same for other groups of people. Thats a privilege.

There are several other examples I don’t have a lot of time at the moment to go further.

But you can get real crazy with this notion of privilege. Western Africans as a whole have superior genetics for explosive movements hence why they are so prevalent in a lot of sports requiring these attributes. Is that a genetic privilege.

Also on a side note regarding too many companies make white only products. There was an instance of a white company deciding to expand their product line that catered towards black women. They got absolutely obliterated by the outrage within the black community who accused them of taking money from the black owned companies that made the product. The problem was these big “white” companies made more products that were better quality and were preferred over the other. But which is it. Do you want these companies to expand their product line or not. Damned if you do damned if you don’t.

I think we need band together cultivate one cohesive American identity. Chill out on the identity politics. Call out rascists, sexists, anti semites when we see them. But lets not tramp on anyones freedom of speech or make anyone feel guilty for being born a certain way. Or blame entire groups of people for something they had no part in.

Obviously it is more complex than that but those are my quick thoughts on it.

[SkyzykS]

I’ll address those a little more thoroughly tomorrow. I’m a bit preoccupied at this point, but those are good questions.

[oglebee]

I didn’t actually answer any of your points. Sorry about that.

@BrickHead

Also, should one relinquish what one has, whether through actual privilege or not? If so, what besides a job should be relinquished (as people know, I’m aware of that good ol’ American fixation on McJobs, supposedly the only things that make society go around.)

The problem with relinquishing something like privilege is its a hard thing to assess and where do you draw the line. How much is a product of privilege how much is a product of hard work?

I think having meritocratic system is the best.

@BrickHead

What happens in the case of arranged marriages for people of some cultures residing in America? Should they file for divorce? Clearly they had an advantage in finding a mate and starting a family rather than possibly going through the nightmare of dating in the current day.

I think making people divorce is a bit too extreme. But I get your point.

@BrickHead

What about the familial scene of a place of worship or cultural practice or gathering and all the perks that come with such a societal institution (eg, McJob connections, mentors, godmothers or -fathers, friends, etc.) Should people stop going to churches and other places of worship?

I think we are probably in total agreement. No people should not stop going to these places.

@BrickHead

What if someone acquired friends because the friends they made felt they had more in common with people of the same ethnicity or race? Should he give up his friends. I mean, what if someone found a mate or McJob through a friend? What if someone got a McJob, and then after shaking hands and hugging after the deal was made, the employer-friend-homeboy says, “Dis is our little t’ing. We gotta look out for one annuda,” (a clear case of nepotism to a fly on the wall)?

I am guilty of this. I used to work as cashier at a gas station in undergrad. Got all my boys jobs there. We ran that MFer.

[pfury]

@oglebee

Says the guy who admitted his own ignorance on the subject.

Due to my ignorance, I’m skeptical of what I hear that seems to have inherent bias. You yourself presented it as an agenda to discredit.

@oglebee

Not all the journals that published their hoax work were the low brow predatory journals that activitiesguy referenced. Some have been around for near 30 years and are well established and widely accepted.

Agreed. It’s not a good thing.

@oglebee

Says the guy who is unwilling to look into anything that doesn’t conform to the narrative in his own head.

I didn’t say anything of the sort. I just don’t have cause to. I would readily accept this if the results weren’t so abysmal.

@oglebee

Your response. I don’t really care enough to look into that. Its never been very high up on my list of priorities.

Sorry for being a realist?

@oglebee

Ok fine. Stop commenting on something like you have any actual input

I said they were intentionally spreading fake news. They, with intent, published fake information after posing it as legitimate. You can draw whatever imaginary line you want to avoid it.

You then took offense and the back and forth started. You’ve even agreed that this experiment does virtually nothing to support the ‘left controlled journal’ theory after AG explained why it was inherently flawed from the start, due to a variety of reasons.

@oglebee

just sit back scream its a bogeyman fabricated by the GOP

In my defense, the GOP is pretty fond of boogeymen fabricating.

[oglebee]

@pfury

I said they were intentionally spreading fake news. They, with intent, published fake information after posing it as legitimate. You can draw whatever imaginary line you want to avoid it.

You then took offense and the back and forth started. You’ve even agreed that this experiment does virtually nothing to support the ‘left controlled journal’ theory after AG explained why it was inherently flawed from the start, due to a variety of reasons.

No activitiesguy did not have a firm grasp on what I was trying to say and understandably so considering how he interpreted the text I posted with the video. Also he is a statistician so he viewed what I wrote through a very specific critical lens at least in my opinion.

Its not fake news. Their purpose was to get absurd research published so they made up the most ridiculous stuff they could.

I am struggling to see where your disconnect with the matter is.

There is a huge difference between what they did and what for instance DJT claims the media does as fake news.

Do you see the difference? Because if you don’t then thats an issue. For the conversation not that you have an issue personally.

Also, if you don’t think there is unrest within academia I would be more than willing to make another thread and bring what I believe to be evidence to support that claim. Although, that would have to wait a few days.

[pfury]

@oglebee

Its not fake news.

We’ll have to agree to disagree lol

@oglebee

Their purpose was to get absurd research published so they made up the most ridiculous stuff they could

@oglebee

There is a huge difference between what they did and what for instance DJT claims the media does as fake news.

I agree

@oglebee

Also, if you don’t think there is unrest within academia I would be more than willing to make another thread and bring what I believe to be evidence to support that claim

I think there’s plenty of unrest in academia. From K-beyond. I know a few teachers that I talk to on a fairly regular basis.

[oglebee]

@pfury

We’ll have to agree to disagree lol

Well no I am more than willing to listen to why you think its fake news.

We first have to agree on a definition for what fake news is and then see if it applies to what those individuals did.

My definition was: Misrepresenting/twisting facts to present a narrative that is untruthful. And I used the example of the Native Americans if you remember.

I assumed the ensuing conversation was tacit agreement of the definition.

Based on that definition I put forth you can not say it was fake news: You are saying its fake because the content was fabricated. It would only be fake news by that definition if they had intended to maintain the authenticity of their works. Since they did not do that it does not fit the definition.

Can we agree that based on the definition I put forth it is not fake news.

@pfury

I think there’s plenty of unrest in academia. From K-beyond. I know a few teachers that I talk to on a fairly regular basis.

But you don’t think it is getting to point where it needs to be addressed? Like I said I am more than willing to share the information I have seen over the last couple years. Information that suggests we are on a trajectory that does not bode well for those who reap the benefits of freedom of speech, thought and academic inquiry.