T Nation

White Privilege


#1023

Uh. So much wrong here. There are some Polish sounding names in western parts of Germany proper - (Dirk Nowitzki is a modern day example), but they came from Poles who came to work in the Rhineland mines centuries ago, an were considered Aryan by the Nazis as they were basically Germans.

Same as there were many originally French surnames acquired from French protestant refugees who settled in the German protestant north (de Maziere is an illustrious German family of French Huguenot descendants who gave many prominent Nazi generals, including current defense minister in the German government).

Yes. One of the Nazi ideas for the Lebensraum was a Wild East populated by German settlers lording over semi literate Slavic farmhands who were supposed to work on massive farms as in antebellum South. All “surplus” Slavs were to be exterminated or starved to death - this was well under way in occupied Poland. Millions of Slavs perished in Ukraine, Belarus and Russia proper.

Huh?

Actually this caused such an ideological conundrum for the Nazis due to their stance on the Slav population that the Croats were decreed by Himmler a lost Gothic tribe who’ve acquired a Slavic language and forgotten their Germanic roots, while the Bulgarians were designated an Aryan Avar tribe.


#1024

I’m wrong to say Grislawski, Daranowski, and Zalewski are Polish names?. Please do explain.

Hitler’s driver Erich Kempka was Ruhr-Polish.

I also stated the Nazis were inconsistent on their sentiment towards Slavs.


#1025

I once had a music teacher named Grunsky, who was from Wilhelmshaven.

As to polish aggression towards Germany, I know there had been territorial dispute about Danzig (Gdansk?), although that may have been propaganda to whip up an excuse for German attack.

More to that, camp inmates were dressed up in Polish uniforms and machine gunned at a border post as an excuse to invade.


#1026

I explained, descendants of Polish laborers in the Ruhr mines who became pure Germans throughout the centuries.

Millions of dead Slavs do not agree with this


#1027

You’re free to view the dead bodies resulting from the Bromberg Massacre on the internet.


#1028

So you regurgitated what I said. I’m well aware of Ruhr Poles who kept their Polish last names. Do you like saying I’m wrong when even when we are on the same page?!:flushed:

I think you’re nice to talk to though.

Head hurt from thread. Peace ya’ll✌️


#1029

I’m confused. This is your example of Polish aggression? Strange that a Jewish person would be so quick to believe Nazi propaganda.

I like you @BrickHead but you seem to have some very strange ideas about Poland. You’re the only person I’ve ever heard say that Poles were Aryan aggressors against Germans. That’s a new one.


#1030

Ok I don’t think any mainstream biologist would dispute the notion that there are categorical differences between humans.

I suspect some might hesitate to use the word “race” as it pertains to humans because of the social taboo associated with discussing such things.

Taxonomy is a social construct. Humans are animals. There are animals out there that have less differences morphologically then is seen amongst humans yet find themselves on a different phylogenetic branch the tree. Yet somehow people think we can’t apply these very same concepts to humans.

Never mind we categorized the whole spectrum of living creatures already we can’t do it to ourselves nope. We are all identical. No point in point out the obvious differences because people have done that in the past and justified bad things they did.

Stunning to you. You are taking certain liberties with what I said. No not might as well roll with it. The truth is the truth. People need to accept the fact that we are not all the same. There are stunning and profound differences between people. You mind find the truth offensive but I don’t.

Nothing but academic interest? This is simply not true. Incidence of disease and certain pathologies are significantly higher in certain groups than others. There are other reasons why it is significant as well. I find the fact that you want to exercise like crazy and pose shirtless on a stage puzzling. Not really but you get my point.

I already did you can go up and look for it.


#1031

The anti Nazi is a grammar Nazi. I reply on here at the tail end of the day when I can barely keep my eyes open so please do forgive any lapses in grammar on my part.

These ancient civilizations may have had a few things wrong regarding the notion of race but their basic premise was correct.

There are significant differences among human populations and you can make categories based on these differences and call them race. Do what you want with that information I don’t care but I refuse to disregard these very obvious facts under the pretense that we are all equal and the same.

I suppose your right about math and science. I falsely assumed they were separate. At my university they had a campaign were they harped on about the college of arts, humanities and social sciences staying true to the liberal arts mission. So substitute what I said earlier with arts/humanities/social science. You feel the sting yet.


#1032

I believe the hostility was mutual. That is, aggression between the Slavs and Germans goes back before WWII.

For what my thought is worth: I don’t think ANY nation in WWII was a darling. I’ve also spoken several times on these boards about what communist did to the Poles.

By the way, I have an admirable view of Poland. And I like you too.

It’s also important to differentiate between governments and people when discussing such matters.


#1033

Yeah, I’m sure that’s it.

I sincerely have no idea what this is supposed to mean (unless you’re a post-modernist).

Such as…?

Speaking of taking liberties–please point out where I staked out the position ‘people are all the same.’

True. But this doesn’t necessitate or justify extending the ‘group’ (your word) notion as far as seem to want to take it.


#1034

I have plenty of anecdotes to go off of considering I work with these sorts of people on a daily basis.

Have you ever taken a course on evolutionary biology? Do you know what taxonomy is? Do you know how it was performed especially before the advent of genomic sequencing?

Literally off the top of my head because admittedly this is not my area of expertise.

Pan. Paniscus versus Pan. Troglodyte. Bonobo or pygmy chimpanzee versus the common chimpanzee.

Edit: You can look at equestrian diversity as well. We don’t say nope they are all horses.

Wasn’t saying you were.

I am not sure what you are saying here.


#1035

Holy cow! Do you think I wouldn’t agree with this?!

I just said previously that there was anti-Slav bigotry and mistreatment on behalf of some Nazis. I also said there were some high-ranking Germans of Slavic origin, that some Nazis didn’t have such bigotry, that some even mated with Slavs and that Germany allied with Serbia, Croatia, and Bulgaria. Ukraine also has a large Waffen SS unit.

Slavs weren’t darlings to each other either. One can read and see for themselves how the Croats treated the Serbs in WWII and the same for the Ukrainians and Poles. It’s horrifying… and sad.


#1036

OK, let’s hear 'em.


#1037

Lets hear what you have to say regarding all your other points I addressed.

Here go an educate your self. I have more than just anecdotes.


#1038

Did you read that before posting it?

Edit: I bet that question prompted you to do so, and you’re now realizing your error. From the abstract:

"Races may exist in humans in a cultural sense, but biological concepts of race are needed to access their reality in a non-species-specific manner and to see if cultural categories correspond to biological categories within humans. Modern biological concepts of race can be implemented objectively with molecular genetic data through hypothesis-testing. Genetic data sets are used to see if biological races exist in humans and in our closest evolutionary relative, the chimpanzee. Using the two most commonly used biological concepts of race, chimpanzees are indeed subdivided into races but humans are not."

(It gets worse for you from there.)

So, are you a troll, or maybe a teenager, or simply an inept interlocutor?

Edit II:


#1039

No I have read that article.

Maybe you don’t understand my stance on the matter to begin with.

You quote one paragraph of the whole article.

Why don’t you read the whole thing chief.

The paper acknowledges differences amongst humans from different geographies thats all I ever said. I agree with most everything in this paper. I don’t think “race” is so simple an issue as skin tone.

What is it that you think I am saying that clashes with the content of that paper?

Do you just come on here to argue? Are you actually interested in a conversation or just want to flex on the internet?

Edit: I consistently bring data to the table and all you jabronies do is bring your feelings.


#1040

OK, just one more time and then I’m done with you. Here’s the quote from the abstract:
“[…] chimpanzees are indeed subdivided into races but humans are not.”

Now, here is you from upthread:

So, yeah. I think we–or more specifically you–are done here.


#1041

Ok well you obviously didn’t read the paper.

Clearly I was right. More interested in flexing.

I agree and disagree with that paper on several points. I can do that. I presented it merely as an example that differentiation among human populations is widely accepted in the scientific community. Even among researchers who are not in favor of the concept of race as it applies to humans agree that you can categorize humans into different groups or demes.

If you had actually taken the time to read the paper you would have realized the main issue was defining what race is. I don’t think the author sufficiently dispelled the notion of race. And there are human populations that meet the genetic criteria he outlined as a different race.

This is a point of contention still going on among evolutionary biologist. Its not clear cut. And furthermore progress is significantly impeded by the social ramifications of even suggesting there are different groups/races of humans.

What about our recent ancestors homo erectus, heidelbergensis etc. How do you classify them?

You have been indoctrinated to the point of no return. Clearly a close minded individual.

So you are right I am done trying to have an exchange with someone who is solely intent on flexing. Seriously I don’t understand your tone. Being a bit of an ass for no reason.

Edit: Tell me why am I done here? You don’t think I should be allowed to engage in discourse with the people here? Maybe I am too open minded and honest? Is that it. Maybe I am wrong. So what. Lets exchange ideas. Seriously why do you even post here if you are going to engage the way you do?


#1042

That’s true for mostly every group for all of history except perhaps Pacific Islanders who just didn’t have anyone to fight. Maybe. I’m not really sure.

I do not think Poland had any plans of conquering Germany and forcibly relocating, enslaving and exterminating everyone who lived there. I’m not sure, perhaps there were many Poles who would have loved to do that if they had the means, which they didn’t. My grandmother was pretty damn racist against just about everyone who wasn’t Polish, but I think she deserves a pass for being born in Poland in the 1920’s. Fortunately for me, my grandfather and her made it to the USA in the late 30’s.

I think Poland is kicking a lot of ass right now. They need to tone down the authoritarianism in my opinion, but if there’s any country in Europe that deserves to remain an ethnic and cultural enclave, it’s Poland. Even the Dalai Lama thinks so.

I agree. If you put my grandmother in charge of Poland there would probably be war after war against a long list of groups she didn’t like at all.