White Fear

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ren wrote:
DS: great post man.

African-American is the worst term anyone has for a black person. How many black Americans have even been to Africa?

Agreed, but that is an American thing.

I see tons of people claiming to be “Italian-Americans” or “Irish Americans”, except they haven’t been to the country and are three generations removed from those who were.

I won’t call anyone “…-American”.

You’re right. It’s a totally American thing. In the U.K. you don’t see folks claiming to be “African British” or “Italian English”. You don’t find this kind of thing in the whole of Europe and/or Asia.

I think that this is just another symptom of America’s obsession with race. And I think it works both ways: Obsession for the sake of “political correctness” and obsession for the sake of racial prejudice. That’s not saying that European/Asian nations do not have racial problems. They do. But I do not think you find such a preoccupation elsewhere. It’s almost a hypersensitivity. [/quote]

There is a reason for that. It isn’t like there is “hypersensitivity” for no reason. In what other country was one specific race singled out as cattle on such a large scale covering so much geography?

While slavery itself is not an “american creation”, this country used it to basically build an entire economy and destroyed the history of an entire race of people in the process. Even after it ended, Civil Rights were still in jeopardy for generations and some would argue still are to some degree.

22

[quote]Professor X wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ren wrote:
DS: great post man.

African-American is the worst term anyone has for a black person. How many black Americans have even been to Africa?

Agreed, but that is an American thing.

I see tons of people claiming to be “Italian-Americans” or “Irish Americans”, except they haven’t been to the country and are three generations removed from those who were.

I won’t call anyone “…-American”.

You’re right. It’s a totally American thing. In the U.K. you don’t see folks claiming to be “African British” or “Italian English”. You don’t find this kind of thing in the whole of Europe and/or Asia.

I think that this is just another symptom of America’s obsession with race. And I think it works both ways: Obsession for the sake of “political correctness” and obsession for the sake of racial prejudice. That’s not saying that European/Asian nations do not have racial problems. They do. But I do not think you find such a preoccupation elsewhere. It’s almost a hypersensitivity.

There is a reason for that. It isn’t like there is “hypersensitivity” for no reason. In what other country was one specific race singled out as cattle on such a large scale covering so much geography?

While slavery itself is not an “american creation”, this country used it to basically build an entire economy and destroyed the history of an entire race of people in the process. Even after it ended, Civil Rights were still in jeopardy for generations and some would argue still are to some degree. [/quote]

Well, the only country with similar racial issues is/was South Africa, but it gets complicated since we had a white minority oppressing a multitude of native peoples. But the white folks here just came to Africa and stomped all over the natives, so they at least still have their heritage and traditions to hang on to.

23

[quote]Professor X wrote:

There is a reason for that. It isn’t like there is “hypersensitivity” for no reason. In what other country was one specific race singled out as cattle on such a large scale covering so much geography? [/quote]

How about the Jews? They covered quite a bit of geography. Built quite a few pyramids while they were at it. Historically, man for man, more Jews have been enslaved and persecuted than any other race.

[quote]
While slavery itself is not an “american creation”, this country used it to basically build an entire economy and destroyed the history of an entire race of people in the process. Even after it ended, Civil Rights were still in jeopardy for generations and some would argue still are to some degree. [/quote]

The history of black slaves was destroyed by the black slave owners in Africa. Free African men weren’t generally captured by the white man and dragged across the sea. They were already slaves, owned by Tribal Leaders (black men), and then sold.

Edit: Some interesting reading.

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/historyonline/slav_fact.cfm

24

[quote]MaloVerde wrote:

How about the Jews? They covered quite a bit of geography. Built quite a few pyramids while they were at it. Historically, man for man, more Jews have been enslaved and persecuted than any other race. [/quote]

No argument there. However, how many millennia have the Jews had since Ancient Egypt to regain their heritage? Was their history eradicated completely and their names changed? They were held as slaves but were allowed to keep much of their base culture. That means they kept their identity in spite of being used.

If you honestly believe that the damage done was completed in Africa and that there was no destruction of heritage in America, no name changing, and no attempt to keep generations from ever even learning how to read, I am not sure continuing this conversation is worth my time.

Perhaps you also blame Africa for an entire race not having the ability to vote freely until the last century. Maybe you also blame Africa for many blacks in this country being unable to trace their family trees back more than 4 or 5 generations. Slaves were like money and their source was not only because of black slave owners in Africa.

25

[quote]Professor X wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:

How about the Jews? They covered quite a bit of geography. Built quite a few pyramids while they were at it. Historically, man for man, more Jews have been enslaved and persecuted than any other race.

No argument there. However, how many millennia have the Jews had since Ancient Egypt to regain their heritage? Was their history eradicated completely and their names changed? They were held as slaves but were allowed to keep much of their base culture. That means they kept their identity in spite of being used.[/quote]

Agreed. In other posts I have addressed that blacks haven’t had enough time to recover and reorganize. And you too, have also addressed that it appears that the younger generations are caring less of color of skin when selecting their friends. A good sign of what is hopefully to come.

[quote]
If you honestly believe that the damage done was completed in Africa and that there was no destruction of heritage in America, no name changing, and no attempt to keep generations from ever even learning how to read, I am not sure continuing this conversation is worth my time. [/quote]

That’s kind of like two different fruits.

Was the heritage lost for those Africans who stayed in Africa? If so, how was that the fault of the US? An entire race was not lost, a portion was transplanted.

For those that were brought to America, no, I don’t believe that the damage was completed in Africa. Undeniably started there though.

[quote]
Perhaps you also blame Africa for an entire race not having the ability to vote freely until the last century. Maybe you also blame Africa for many blacks in this country being unable to trace their family trees back more than 4 or 5 generations. Slaves were like money and their source was not only because of black slave owners in Africa. [/quote]

I’m pretty sure that the African slave owners didn’t believe that their slaves would be taken to the land of Eden for pampering, so, yes, I do in fact place a whole lot of blame on Africans for the plight their people were going to endure.

For the treatment that Africans received when they got here, of course blame would fall directly on American slave owners. A small portion of which were black.

Maybe I see too much silver lining, but I don’t think ALL heritage was lost. Influences from African culture still abound and what has been lost, a new culture has been forming. A culture that is undeniably appealing and influential to not only americans, but World wide.

26

[quote]Professor X wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Ren wrote:
DS: great post man.

African-American is the worst term anyone has for a black person. How many black Americans have even been to Africa?

Agreed, but that is an American thing.

I see tons of people claiming to be “Italian-Americans” or “Irish Americans”, except they haven’t been to the country and are three generations removed from those who were.

I won’t call anyone “…-American”.

You’re right. It’s a totally American thing. In the U.K. you don’t see folks claiming to be “African British” or “Italian English”. You don’t find this kind of thing in the whole of Europe and/or Asia.

I think that this is just another symptom of America’s obsession with race. And I think it works both ways: Obsession for the sake of “political correctness” and obsession for the sake of racial prejudice. That’s not saying that European/Asian nations do not have racial problems. They do. But I do not think you find such a preoccupation elsewhere. It’s almost a hypersensitivity.

There is a reason for that. It isn’t like there is “hypersensitivity” for no reason. In what other country was one specific race singled out as cattle on such a large scale covering so much geography?

While slavery itself is not an “american creation”, this country used it to basically build an entire economy and destroyed the history of an entire race of people in the process. Even after it ended, Civil Rights were still in jeopardy for generations and some would argue still are to some degree. [/quote]

But the question is; will this hypersensitivity help or hurt race relations? Can we move forward as a nation to embrace all races while we are so focused on our differences? i.e. “_______” - American.

27

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
But the question is; will this hypersensitivity help or hurt race relations? Can we move forward as a nation to embrace all races while we are so focused on our differences? i.e. “_______” - American.

[/quote]

The reason the song “I’m black and I’m proud” was a hit in the 60’s was because before then, there was no anthem for Black Americans to get behind. There needed to be a public cry of pride for who you are. There weren’t even black Barbie dolls before the 1980’s.

For a race of people to build past an event that robbed them of their entire history, there has to be a period of focus on where your place is in society.

The only reason I can think of as for why so many seem to not understand this, is that they want to pretend as if knowing where you come from is a nonissue.

To understand exactly where you are going, you do have to understand where you have been. Black Americans are unlike any other racial group in society when it comes to having lost every aspect of their own history. What sense does it make to pretend as if your association doesn’t matter?

The moment I stop getting pulled over for being black while driving is the exact moment that whether I am “black american” or “white american” becomes a nonissue.

Too many of you seem to want one without the other. Stop profiling, stop public racism that is disproportionately aimed at minorities and none of these labels will ever matter again. The power is, and always has been, in the hands of the majority.

28

[quote]Professor X wrote:
MaloVerde wrote:

How about the Jews? They covered quite a bit of geography. Built quite a few pyramids while they were at it. Historically, man for man, more Jews have been enslaved and persecuted than any other race.

No argument there. However, how many millennia have the Jews had since Ancient Egypt to regain their heritage? Was their history eradicated completely and their names changed? They were held as slaves but were allowed to keep much of their base culture. That means they kept their identity in spite of being used.

The history of black slaves was destroyed by the black slave owners in Africa. Free African men weren’t generally captured by the white man and dragged across the sea. They were already slaves, owned by Tribal Leaders (black men), and then sold.

Edit: Some interesting reading.

If you honestly believe that the damage done was completed in Africa and that there was no destruction of heritage in America, no name changing, and no attempt to keep generations from ever even learning how to read, I am not sure continuing this conversation is worth my time.

Perhaps you also blame Africa for an entire race not having the ability to vote freely until the last century. Maybe you also blame Africa for many blacks in this country being unable to trace their family trees back more than 4 or 5 generations. Slaves were like money and their source was not only because of black slave owners in Africa. [/quote]

How much was Jewish culture and heritage affected by this little event, known to history as THE HOLOCAUST?

Since we want to turn the suffering of two races into a competition I think we should at least mention one rather big play in said competition: The murder of 5 - 6 million people.

29

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
But the question is; will this hypersensitivity help or hurt race relations? Can we move forward as a nation to embrace all races while we are so focused on our differences? i.e. “_______” - American.

The reason the song “I’m black and I’m proud” was a hit in the 60’s was because before then, there was no anthem for Black Americans to get behind. There needed to be a public cry of pride for who you are. There weren’t even black Barbie dolls before the 1980’s.

For a race of people to build past an event that robbed them of their entire history, there has to be a period of focus on where your place is in society.

The only reason I can think of as for why so many seem to not understand this, is that they want to pretend as if knowing where you come from is a nonissue.

To understand exactly where you are going, you do have to understand where you have been. Black Americans are unlike any other racial group in society when it comes to having lost every aspect of their own history. What sense does it make to pretend as if your association doesn’t matter?

The moment I stop getting pulled over for being black while driving is the exact moment that whether I am “black american” or “white american” becomes a nonissue.

Too many of you seem to want one without the other. Stop profiling, stop public racism that is disproportionately aimed at minorities and none of these labels will ever matter again. The power is, and always has been, in the hands of the majority.

[/quote]

And what responsiblity do black leaders have here? Is there any culpability for blacks in this? Profiling exists for two reasons: 1.) Racist cops who are prejudiced against blacks, 2.) Young black males commit an inoridnately high percentage of crime (especially violent crime).

Profiling is exactly that. You are harrassed because you fit a profile. Young. Black. Male. My wife who is young and black is never pulled over for driving in our part of town. Neither is her dad (a black man over 60) or mom. Her cousins (young black males) are pulled over. And we file complaints each time. But things need to happen on BOTH sides in order for these things to end.

As for needing to know where you’ve been to know where you are going? Don’t agree. I agree when speaking in individual terms. But not in terms of your ‘race’ or ancestors. When you think in those terms you can only limit yourself.

30

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
How much was Jewish culture and heritage affected by this little event, known to history as THE HOLOCAUST?

Since we want to turn the suffering of two races into a competition I think we should at least mention one rather big play in said competition: The murder of 5 - 6 million people.

[/quote]

Who has turned this into a competition? It sure hasn’t been me. No one is comparing “suffering” here but the loss of IDENTITY. No one is trying to downgrade the relevance of the Holocaust but you would have to be pretty foolish to not understand that even in spite of that tragic event, the survivors after losing nearly everything didn’t lose WHO THEY WERE. They also didn’t have that same event lead to 300 years of slavery nor did they have to deal with so much of the public trying to prevent their advancement in society hundreds of years after the event. How simple a mind must you have to not recognize the differences? Does someone literally have to write out how tragic the Holocaust is in every passage for someone like to NOT try the lame attempt to act as if everything written is irrelevant?

31

[quote]DS 007 wrote:

And what responsiblity do black leaders have here?[/quote]

Black leaders? Like Martin Luther King Jr.? What blacks do you know of that truly consider most of the public faces jumping for media attention to be “leaders” of an entire race of people? That was your first mistake. Let’s see what others you make.

[quote]

Is there any culpability for blacks in this? Profiling exists for two reasons: 1.) Racist cops who are prejudiced against blacks, 2.) Young black males commit an inoridnately high percentage of crime (especially violent crime). [/quote]

Wait a second, you either want to get rid of “labels” or you don’t. Why would the color of certain criminals matter at all to someone trying to get rid of “labels”? What an odd route to go down for someone so opposed to hypersensitivity of race. My “culpability” is to MYSELF. My responsibility as an American Male is to MYSELF. Until you can stop relating my skin color to the negative actions of others, you are a freaking hypocrite claiming you no longer want such “hypersensitivity” to race.

Gee, thanks for pointing that out. It does nothing to explain why young black doctors are seen as no different in the public eye as young black criminals. It does nothing to explain why this type of prejudice is accepted in society as a whole but then many want to turn around and cry about the use of “black american” in a sentence. Get rid of one and the rest will follow. Stop harassing me for my skin color and the labels will no longer be useful.

Bullshit. That is like a rich man claiming that he doesn’t understand why poor people are so fixated on money. If it is something you have never lost, of course it is a nonissue to you. It was never taken from you. Your identity has been ingrained in your entire family line from recipes your mothers uses to how your father has learned to deal with life from his parents. It is a cycle unbroken barring some tragedy in your ancestry. That means you don’t see the significance simply because it is something that never caused a break in the chain in your family history. The question is, are you insightful enough to give credit to it.

32

[quote]Professor X wrote:
DS 007 wrote:

And what responsiblity do black leaders have here?

Black leaders? Like Martin Luther King Jr.? What blacks do you know of that truly consider most of the public faces jumping for media attention to be “leaders” of an entire race of people? That was your first mistake. Let’s see what others you make.

Is there any culpability for blacks in this? Profiling exists for two reasons: 1.) Racist cops who are prejudiced against blacks, 2.) Young black males commit an inoridnately high percentage of crime (especially violent crime).

Wait a second, you either want to get rid of “labels” or you don’t. Why would the color of certain criminals matter at all to someone trying to get rid of “labels”? What an odd route to go down for someone so opposed to hypersensitivity of race. My “culpability” is to MYSELF. My responsibility as an American Male is to MYSELF. Until you can stop relating my skin color to the negative actions of others, you are a freaking hypocrite claiming you no longer want such “hypersensitivity” to race.

Profiling is exactly that. You are harrassed because you fit a profile. Young. Black. Male.

Gee, thanks for pointing that out. It does nothing to explain why young black doctors are seen as no different in the public eye as young black criminals. It does nothing to explain why this type of prejudice is accepted in society as a whole but then many want to turn around and cry about the use of “black american” in a sentence. Get rid of one and the rest will follow. Stop harassing me for my skin color and the labels will no longer be useful.

As for needing to know where you’ve been to know where you are going? Don’t agree. I agree when speaking in individual terms. But not in terms of your ‘race’ or ancestors. When you think in those terms you can only limit yourself.

Bullshit. That is like a rich man claiming that he doesn’t understand why poor people are so fixated on money. If it is something you have never lost, of course it is a nonissue to you. It was never taken from you. Your identity has been ingrained in your entire family line from recipes your mothers uses to how your father has learned to deal with life from his parents. It is a cycle unbroken barring some tragedy in your ancestry. That means you don’t see the significance simply because it is something that never caused a break in the chain in your family history. The question is, are you insightful enough to give credit to it. [/quote]

I was prepared to go point by point with you on this. But as I re-read your post I realized that you are just spewing a bunch of non-sense. What? Your mommy was denied her recipes? Tragic. I thought your responsiblity was to “YOURSELF”? Wasn’t the same true for your dad so that he would be able to teach you those life lessons you claim to have been denied?

Every argument you make is weak and crumbles under any kind of argument. Pathetic. Plus you’re an asshole.

And black doctors get pulled over for the same reasons that black criminals might NOT get pulled over. Cops don’t have ESP yet. So they use a profile. Mind you, profiles are okay - so long as they don’t consider race. Even if that kind of profiling is effective, we can’t do it.

Do you cry yourself to sleep at night or just stay up thinking of excuses?

33

[quote]Professor X wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
How much was Jewish culture and heritage affected by this little event, known to history as THE HOLOCAUST?

Since we want to turn the suffering of two races into a competition I think we should at least mention one rather big play in said competition: The murder of 5 - 6 million people.

Who has turned this into a competition? It sure hasn’t been me. No one is comparing “suffering” here but the loss of IDENTITY. No one is trying to downgrade the relevance of the Holocaust but you would have to be pretty foolish to not understand that even in spite of that tragic event, the survivors after losing nearly everything didn’t lose WHO THEY WERE. They also didn’t have that same event lead to 300 years of slavery nor did they have to deal with so much of the public trying to prevent their advancement in society hundreds of years after the event. How simple a mind must you have to not recognize the differences? Does someone literally have to write out how tragic the Holocaust is in every passage for someone like to NOT try the lame attempt to act as if everything written is irrelevant?[/quote]

Right. Right. Much worse for you than anyone else. No one can possibly compete with blacks for “most suffering inflicted” upon. And woe to anyone who dare question the Proffessor and his proclaimations of what’s right and wrong. You’re a clown, pal.

34

[quote]DS 007 wrote:

Right. Right. Much worse for you than anyone else. No one can possibly compete with blacks for “most suffering inflicted” upon. And woe to anyone who dare question the Proffessor and his proclaimations of what’s right and wrong. You’re a clown, pal.[/quote]

Like I thought, you never did have a point. I tell you this is not about a competition of suffering and you continue to use that because, quite frankly, it is apparently the only argument you had in you. That was pretty pathetic. You couldn’t possibly go point for point with me on this. You are still clueless enough to think there are any significant “black leaders” today that even a majority of blacks in America believe speak for the rest of us with “our” best interests in mind. You have a lot to learn and are apparently too dense to even know it.

35

[quote]Professor X wrote:
DS 007 wrote:

Right. Right. Much worse for you than anyone else. No one can possibly compete with blacks for “most suffering inflicted” upon. And woe to anyone who dare question the Proffessor and his proclaimations of what’s right and wrong. You’re a clown, pal.

Like I thought, you never did have a point. I tell you this is not about a competition of suffering and you continue to use that because, quite frankly, it is apparently the only argument you had in you. That was pretty pathetic. You couldn’t possibly go point for point with me on this. You are still clueless enough to think there are any significant “black leaders” today that even a majority of blacks in America believe speak for the rest of us with “our” best interests in mind. You have a lot to learn and are apparently too dense to even know it.[/quote]

Thank you. I’ve observed that you are the moral, phyical and spiritual authority on everything. I need you to help de-densify me.

36

[quote]DS 007 wrote:

Thank you. I’ve observed that you are the moral, phyical and spiritual authority on everything. I need you to help de-densify me. [/quote]

Good. Let me know whenever you plan to jump back on topic and that can be “lesson one”.

37

The following quote is one that backs the observation and point made earlier in this thread that racism appears to be worse in northern states as opposed to southern states.

“the prejudice of race appears to be stronger in the states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists; and nowhere is it so intolerant as in those states where servitude has never been known.”

Alexis de Tocqueville in Democracy in America

38

[quote]Dustin wrote:
The following quote is one that backs the observation and point made earlier in this thread that racism appears to be worse in northern states as opposed to southern states.

“the prejudice of race appears to be stronger in the states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists; and nowhere is it so intolerant as in those states where servitude has never been known.”

Alexis de Tocqueville in Democracy in America

[/quote]

Speaking from personal experience and living in the north, I have seen more racism below New Jersey than above it. Of course it still exists but its definitely not as plentiful as it is in the south. Why thats the case I don’t know. I never tried to analyze it.

I’ve been caught in between race fights in Florida (wrong place wrong time. Dont every go to a county fair in Florida) where as I have not heard of or seen a “race” fight where I live and lived all my life. We are diverse where I live, as I had more black friends than white growing up. So thats not it. Its not lily white here.

39

i only have one thing to say.first off, name me one person alive that was a slave? i myself am not a racist and am white but let’s face what nobody here will bring up because of fear,there are alot of blacks,whites and god know’s who else screwing the “system” food stamps assistance and all other sources.

slavery happened what hundreds of years ago, we don’t owe shit to anybody,see it’s all about money (me,me,me)mentality and that’s sad if anybody in this world deserves any kick-backs it is people who attend to needy kids or disabled people, they work for shit and do an amazing job at that,not all the people crying like a baby about what about me i was hurt by slavery…HEADLINE!!!

you weren’t a slave dumb ass,you are not getting a dime from me so you can go and put 10,000 dollar rims on an escalade.how is paying off people because of a bad situation going to solve anything? it’s not,yes all of the above was bad,no arguements…but come on people.

if we don’t change what’s truely wrong than in 10-15 years profiling and hate crimes will over-run EVERYBODY no race will be safe…i believe that if you are white or black or jewish or anything if you really better yourself and put what’s important into perspective and keep christ first than all else will work out in the long haul.

we all need to look at our “real needs” not buying a million dollar home and driving a 60,000-100,000 car when we have so many needs right here like single mothers that had a p.o.s. husband and left them and are raising the kids alone now,that’s a real need but anyhow i can go on for hours about what’s wrong but back to you fellas

peace…really

40

[quote]Dustin wrote:
The following quote is one that backs the observation and point made earlier in this thread that racism appears to be worse in northern states as opposed to southern states.

“the prejudice of race appears to be stronger in the states that have abolished slavery than in those where it still exists; and nowhere is it so intolerant as in those states where servitude has never been known.”

Alexis de Tocqueville in Democracy in America
[/quote]

Good book.