T Nation

Which Type of Fighting

[quote]chinadoll wrote:
Train in Muay Thai and Karate.

Rationale: Karate will condition you to deliver strong, square, effective blows. The training is a controlled environment, but in a street fight where it’s not a controlled situation, it will benefit you as your natural movements will cause you to deliver strong blows.

Muay Thai will make you a better street fighter all around. Every once in a while in the news, there are stories of muay thai fighters getting jumped and accidentally killing someone with a fatal blow.

Sure, no one wants to hurt anyone else, but if you’re forced to defend yourself from someone who is out to harm or kill you or someone in your family, you have every right to do what needs to be done.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but Karate sucks. It’s practical application in streetfighting does not translate at all. There is a type of combat Karate that is trained in Japan, but 99.99999999% of the Karate taught in the US is crap.

[quote]slimjim wrote:

I’m sorry, but Karate sucks. It’s practical application in streetfighting does not translate at all. There is a type of combat Karate that is trained in Japan, but 99.99999999% of the Karate taught in the US is crap. [/quote]

I have a black belt in that crap karate!.. and your 100% correct. When I switched over to MMA I had to throw a vast majority of that out the window. Fact is most karate schools are run like businesses. If people are walking out limping with blood running down their face then chances are good they wouldn’t attract much of a crowd. Most schools actually tailor to training small children and they won’t run the risk of a lawsuit to actually train them in combat. Granted I’m sure there are some excellent martial arts teachers out there, the thing is that they don’t advertise in the yellow pages. If its Joe Schmos karate chain then don’t even bother checking it out.

I guess it depends on what you consider a street fight. My impression is a life or death situation, against multiple opponents with various weapons.

First, any judo, BJJ, or wrestling is worthless, because as soon as you take one opponent to the ground, the others will kick the shit out of you.
Second, boxing, Muay Thai, Tae kwon do (sp?), and some karate is worthless as it is geared toward tournaments, with no exposure to multiple opponents or weapons.

Kung Fu San Soo teaches you all of this. The man who brought KFSS to America always stated that if a fight last more than 2 seconds, you’re doing something wrong, which is exactly the mentality you need. Maximum damage in minimum time. If you are unable to find a KFSS teacher, Krav Maga would be a good alternative, I understand they have a lot in common.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
I guess it depends on what you consider a street fight. My impression is a life or death situation, against multiple opponents with various weapons. [/quote]

As long as it’s not something as simple as a bar fight.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
First, any judo, BJJ, or wrestling is worthless, because as soon as you take one opponent to the ground, the others will kick the shit out of you.
Second, boxing, Muay Thai, Tae kwon do (sp?), and some karate is worthless as it is geared toward tournaments, with no exposure to multiple opponents or weapons.[/quote]

Boxing and Muay Thai are excellent fighting techniques. The whole point of both of them is to inflict damage on an opponent to such a level that they cannot continue to fight. Although I have studied both, for a beginner, boxing is the easiest and quickest to get a basic level of competency. Therefore, it is the most effective at early levels of training.

I also recommended wrestling so if the fight does go to the ground, HHH is not lying on his back getting his face pounded. The majority of the street fights I have seen have ended up on the ground at some point. To ignore this would be stupid.

HHH, depending on how quickly you pick things up, you could be quite competent in both wrestling and boxing in 6-12 months. Not world class by any means, but you should have more than enough to take care of yourself in a local rumble.

Let me give you an example. Not sure if this will help but… I did Kung-Fu for about 3 years and other basic McKarate for a while. I was faced with a situation at work where I had to take someone down. All the BS Kung-Fu stuff went right out the window and I went to tackle the guy. Once on the ground I was clueless. Lession learned was now I do BJJ, and MMA because the other stuff I took was unrealistic and I learned no real resistance. From what I have seen the basic street fights include Tackleing, and haymakers. If you take some sort of boxing/mma/resistance training and some sort of ground fighting you should be all set. The timing you learn from boxing will be perfect against your average Joe. But also go for something you are going to like, and that will be able to learn/respond quickly.

[quote]Massif wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
First, any judo, BJJ, or wrestling is worthless, because as soon as you take one opponent to the ground, the others will kick the shit out of you.
Second, boxing, Muay Thai, Tae kwon do (sp?), and some karate is worthless as it is geared toward tournaments, with no exposure to multiple opponents or weapons.

Boxing and Muay Thai are excellent fighting techniques. The whole point of both of them is to inflict damage on an opponent to such a level that they cannot continue to fight. Although I have studied both, for a beginner, boxing is the easiest and quickest to get a basic level of competency. Therefore, it is the most effective at early levels of training.

I also recommended wrestling so if the fight does go to the ground, HHH is not lying on his back getting his face pounded. The majority of the street fights I have seen have ended up on the ground at some point. To ignore this would be stupid.

HHH, depending on how quickly you pick things up, you could be quite competent in both wrestling and boxing in 6-12 months. Not world class by any means, but you should have more than enough to take care of yourself in a local rumble.

[/quote]
My point is, if the fight goes to the ground, you’ve already drawn it out too long. If you’re in a situation where a fight is unavoidable, you should start it & finish it before they even know you’re planning on fighting back.

[quote]Mr ian wrote:
Let me give you an example. Not sure if this will help but… I did Kung-Fu for about 3 years and other basic McKarate for a while. I was faced with a situation at work where I had to take someone down. All the BS Kung-Fu stuff went right out the window and I went to tackle the guy. Once on the ground I was clueless. Lession learned was now I do BJJ, and MMA because the other stuff I took was unrealistic and I learned no real resistance. From what I have seen the basic street fights include Tackleing, and haymakers. If you take some sort of boxing/mma/resistance training and some sort of ground fighting you should be all set. The timing you learn from boxing will be perfect against your average Joe. But also go for something you are going to like, and that will be able to learn/respond quickly. [/quote]
A lot of kung fu, the way it’s taught is BS. They emphasize the zen, mystic side of it, which is a waste. No offense to anyone, but learning yen & yang isn’t going to help me break some puke’s neck. If you can find a true Kung Fu San Soo school, you will not be disapointed. http://www.kungfusansoo.com/

[quote]Massif wrote:
reddog6376 wrote:
I guess it depends on what you consider a street fight. My impression is a life or death situation, against multiple opponents with various weapons.

As long as it’s not something as simple as a bar fight.

reddog6376 wrote:
First, any judo, BJJ, or wrestling is worthless, because as soon as you take one opponent to the ground, the others will kick the shit out of you.
Second, boxing, Muay Thai, Tae kwon do (sp?), and some karate is worthless as it is geared toward tournaments, with no exposure to multiple opponents or weapons.

Boxing and Muay Thai are excellent fighting techniques. The whole point of both of them is to inflict damage on an opponent to such a level that they cannot continue to fight. Although I have studied both, for a beginner, boxing is the easiest and quickest to get a basic level of competency. Therefore, it is the most effective at early levels of training.

I also recommended wrestling so if the fight does go to the ground, HHH is not lying on his back getting his face pounded. The majority of the street fights I have seen have ended up on the ground at some point. To ignore this would be stupid.

HHH, depending on how quickly you pick things up, you could be quite competent in both wrestling and boxing in 6-12 months. Not world class by any means, but you should have more than enough to take care of yourself in a local rumble.

[/quote]

Great points massif ,thanks heaps

Hmmmmm lots of good info guys and gals,i thank u for that.

Seems to me that Boxing is the overall winner here,with muay thai coming in a close second.
Very interesting opinions by everyone,different strokes for different folkes as the saying goes.

Someone asked me how much time i am willing to put into this,well having a full time job and small family plus afternoon gym work does not leave me much time outside of that,but i could probably get in 5 hours minimum to 10 hours MAXIMUM.
Im not looking to become a complete badass just looking to have confidence in myself to whoop somebody’s ass if they decide to attack me,and with a “fight training” background would give me more confidence knowing i could handle myself.

Cheers for all the reply’s

Peace

HHH

Muay Thai and BJJ or Wrestling. It’ll give you the best of both worlds

Muai Thai and/or Brazilian Ju-jitsu.

TFT makes some huge claims but there aren’t any schools that I could see.

I’m personally going to start training in Krav Maga, it offers most of what the board is recommending, boxing, maui thai, bjj for ground plus its a street fighting system. Israel uses it and they’re in hot zone for conflict and it seems to have worked well for them.

Definately find a good school and one that goes full contact.

Goodluck

[quote]Yargrev. wrote:
Muay Thai and BJJ or Wrestling. It’ll give you the best of both worlds[/quote]
Unless you face multiple opponents, then you’ll get you’re head stomped into the ground…

Track.

I’ve seen alot of shit, and I would say boxing is by far the most effective. They are used to getting hit (which mose people aren’t), and they know how to hit (which most people don’t).

However, the nature of the encounter you have depends on your surroundings alot. A short wrestler will beat the shit out of an Aikido guy in a cramped bar; A tall boxer will murder most short guys in a open parking lot. It has a lot to do with style and surroundings. If you want to check out the most reputable guy I’ve ever seen, go to Marc “Animal” MacYoung’s website, and order one of his books. You’ll learn lots.

www.nononsenseselfdefense.com

Get “Cheap Shots, Ambushes, and other Lessons”. You get to understand that people who get too comfortable with one style of fighting, in turn getting overconfident, can get seriously fucked up if they don’t expand their horizons. Plus this guy is a serious badass.

I’m 6’2" and 240 and my sensei is a 60 year old 5’3" anglican priest and he puts some serious hurt on me. In an all out street fight would I probably take him out, well… no because aside from being 5th dan in sho bu do jiu jutsu he’s got his black belt in shotokan karate and packs a 45 with a permit to carry it concealed :slight_smile:

Personally I train in this because the physical conditioning is good and it’s just a lot of fun, it’s all about inflicting as much pain as possible in as short a time as possible without ending up on the ground. We do redori against mulitple opponents on a fairly regular basis and take our classes outside to train on different terrain, asphalt, gravel, grass, sand etc. A couple of our guys are parol officers, one is a prison guard and they all swear by our techniques. We use a wide variety of weapons including knives jawari bo and sometimes guns, gun retention and gun disarms among other things, good stuff. But not a common style, there are only a few schools in this country and they’re spread out between colorado and michigan.

I really like Krav Maga and like many others here I’d recommend that despite my own personal bias towards the arts I’ve studied the most.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Yargrev. wrote:
Muay Thai and BJJ or Wrestling. It’ll give you the best of both worlds
Unless you face multiple opponents, then you’ll get you’re head stomped into the ground…

[/quote]

Well what happens if you go one on one with a BJJ/Muay Thai guy?

There are lots of worthy styles/systems out there. If you know almost any of them, you’ll do okay against your average UNTRAINED opponent. The situations that everybody seems to be gearing toward in this discussion seem to be against somebody a bit more ominous. In that case, the style you practice probably has less to do with it than how good you are at it, and whether you really have the stomach for combat(unfortunately, you don’t know until you’re there). So whatever you choose, train hard, train often, and train live. That’s as prepared as you’ll get.

One more thing. Regarding Krav Maga, the system may be the bee’s knees, but who the fuck cares if it’s the official system of the Israeli army. The Middle East isn’t fucking West Side Story with HTH combat going on all over. Soldiers are trained to kill with their GUNS people, not their hands. Military units are just as gullible in hiring combat teachers as the general public. So, don’t think that just because the Sri Lankan Navy Commandos use it, that it’s good.

Just my two cents.

No, it doesn’t matter that Israel uses Krav Maga. It just background info, like the shaolin monks created kung fu.

Krav Magra is not a fighting technique like BJJ is. It is hard for me to phrase it correctly, but Krav Magra is not meant for a fight that is with fists; it is more of a way to disarm an armed opponent and take him down. They have ways to disarm men with sticks, pipes, knives, guns, etc. There isn’t as much info on takedowns in the wrestling sense, or punches in a boxing sense. It is based off the natural movements of your body in an individual situation; if someone has a kinfe to your back, they took the natural reaction of turning around and combine it with a grab and knee strike, or elbow (I am just saying this to explain the style, I may be wrong).

The fact that it is used by Israel is relevant, as this is proved that it is used (not like the Swiss Army knife…who knew the Swiss had an army?). There aren’t many countries that have been in direct conflict with a population like Israel has, and the fact that they teach their troops this style does lend it some credibilty. I can’t remember the name of the guy who invented it, but he is not someone I would want to tangle with, especially if I had a weapon.

I have been involved in martial arts for the past 10 years off and on. I started out in Tang Soo Do, then did several types of karate, and most recently have been taking Sho bu do jiu jutsu. Basically, the karate was good for physical fitness, self confidence, and mental strength. As far as self-defense goes, it is pretty much shit, but put me ahead of the vast majority of people I am sure. At least karate/ traditional MA teaches you to keep your hands up and throw a strong punch if needed. (I can also do a real push-up thanks to karate, not that floor humping shit you see most people do!)

Jiu jitsu has been a good experience. Whereas it is not the best striking art or grappling art, it teaches some great stuff.

I think that a lot of bar fights start out with some drunk asshole grabbing you, pushing you, etc. A lot of the stuff we do in jiu jitsu would end this type of situation quickly: throw the asshole on the ground and he will be less likely to keep talking shit.

As Xvim mentioned, sho bu do jj teaches jawari bo which is basically a short stick. This is really helpful because this type of weapon can be found everywhere, from the ice scraper in you trunk to a broken pool cue. This is not just striking, but submissions, chokes, etc. Cool stuff!

When I have a little more time, I am going to start training in a MMA gym in BJJ and Muay Thai.

Just get out there and do it!

Jeff

[quote]Xvim wrote:
I’m 6’2" and 240 and my sensei is a 60 year old 5’3" anglican priest and he puts some serious hurt on me. In an all out street fight would I probably take him out, well… no because aside from being 5th dan in sho bu do jiu jutsu he’s got his black belt in shotokan karate and packs a 45 with a permit to carry it concealed :slight_smile:

Personally I train in this because the physical conditioning is good and it’s just a lot of fun, it’s all about inflicting as much pain as possible in as short a time as possible without ending up on the ground. We do redori against mulitple opponents on a fairly regular basis and take our classes outside to train on different terrain, asphalt, gravel, grass, sand etc. A couple of our guys are parol officers, one is a prison guard and they all swear by our techniques. We use a wide variety of weapons including knives jawari bo and sometimes guns, gun retention and gun disarms among other things, good stuff. But not a common style, there are only a few schools in this country and they’re spread out between colorado and michigan.

I really like Krav Maga and like many others here I’d recommend that despite my own personal bias towards the arts I’ve studied the most.[/quote]