Which Program Will Work Best?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Boss6 wrote:

Well, it wasn’t a very well-asked question . . . but the stupidity and arrogance of the answers shows an amazing level of immaturity. Is anyone here is capable of engaging in intelligent discussion?

There are various ways to insert intensity into an exercise routine. As I study the various methods, I conclude that they are split into two camps.

On the one side are those techniques that generate intensity while pursuing a muscle burn (like X-Rep). On the other side there are those techniques generate intensity while avoiding muscle burn (like EDT).[/quote]

It’s just my opinion, but it looks like you’ve confused “muscle burn” with failure. By ‘muscle burn’, I assume you mean lactic acid build up in the muscles? If so, lactic acid is just a waste product from physical exertion, it is not a sign of hypertrophy.

If you are referring to the ‘pump’, then that is not an accurate indicator of growth either. It is just a sensation caused by your muscles being engorged with blood. Many people interpret these sensations as signs of growth, but muscle growth is a gradual process, sometimes painfully slow - it is not immediately evident.

Anyway, EDT doesn’t try to avoid muscle burn. It is designed to help you manage fatigue and failure more effectively, which allows you to handle heavier loads at a higher volume.

I’ve never tried X-reps, but from what I’ve read about it, it is just a way of extending sets. The purpose is to take a given set ‘beyond failure’, not to ‘feel the burn’.

[quote]
I’m simply trying to see what prevailing opinion is about “muscle burn.”[/quote]

At the risk of sounding stupid, arrogant and immature, if you all you wanted to know was whether or not muscle burn always results in a faster rate of muscle gains and fat loss (it doesn’t), then why didn’t you just say that?

Posting up a hopelessly convoluted hypothetical scenario involving three men at varying levels of body fat is not exactly going to invite sensible responses.

Anyway, how are you planning on applying the information from this (presumably) fictional scenario? Are you about to embark on either edt or x-reps, or are your stats identical to any of these three guys? If not, most of what you said has no relevance to the actual question you want answered.

22

[quote]Boss6 wrote:

Well, it wasn’t a very well-asked question . . . but the stupidity and arrogance of the answers shows an amazing level of immaturity. Is anyone here is capable of engaging in intelligent discussion?

[/quote]

OP: I’ve responded to your nasty PM, but I will say this here.

There are hundreds of threads here every day with newbies asking questions about training. They manage to get answered without mockery. If you look at the post histories of people who have pointed out how goofy your question is, you will probably find that they are among the more helpful on the site.

Maybe the problem’s on your end. Just a thought.

23

[quote]Ramo wrote:
Boss6 wrote:

Well, it wasn’t a very well-asked question . . . but the stupidity and arrogance of the answers shows an amazing level of immaturity. Is anyone here is capable of engaging in intelligent discussion?

OP: I’ve responded to your nasty PM, but I will say this here.

There are hundreds of threads here every day with newbies asking questions about training. They manage to get answered without mockery. If you look at the post histories of people who have pointed out how goofy your question is, you will probably find that they are among the more helpful on the site.

Maybe the problem’s on your end. Just a thought.[/quote]

Seconded.
And again OP, you are not focusing on the important things.

24

I agree: that makes three! I definitely think that the OP is putting the cart before the horse. If he is confused about whether ‘muscle burn’ is responsible for hypertrophy or not, then it doesn’t look like he has an adequate grasp of the basics.

25

[quote]roybot wrote:

Anyway, how are you planning on applying the information from this (presumably) fictional scenario? Are you about to embark on either edt or x-reps, or are your stats identical to any of these three guys? If not, most of what you said has no relevance to the actual question you want answered.

[/quote]

X-reps only work for someone exactly in C’s situation so he should just try to gain only fat until he is 246 @ 35% before embarking on the perfect X-rep program.

26

[quote]tom8658 wrote:
None of them - it’s a trick question.

Mr. 15% will realize that looking like Brad Pitt is a stupid goal. He will start squatting 3x a week and drink his damn milk.

Mr. 25% will do EDT for a while and drop down to 10%… then he’ll decide that “getting ripped” at 6’, 180lbs is a stupid idea. But dropping 30lbs and following a balanced, sane program will rekindle his love for the iron. He will take up powerlifting.

Mr. 35% will be waylaid by a cheeseburger.

[/quote]

This post is a winner!

[quote]alit4 wrote:
the one that works the hardest and pays the greatest attention to his diet.[/quote]

This one comes in 2nd!

To the OP, do starting strength.

27

[quote]Invictica wrote:
That One Guy wrote:

At least OVER 9000!!!

this is T-Nation. not bb.com->misc or 4chan[/quote]

his question deserved an answer that would be found on 4chan, get over it

28

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
Invictica wrote:
That One Guy wrote:

At least OVER 9000!!!

this is T-Nation. not bb.com->misc or 4chan

his question deserved an answer that would be found on 4chan, get over it[/quote]

Dude, I was joking. I should’ve really put an /sarcasm or something.

29

[quote]Invictica wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
Invictica wrote:
That One Guy wrote:

At least OVER 9000!!!

this is T-Nation. not bb.com->misc or 4chan

his question deserved an answer that would be found on 4chan, get over it

Dude, I was joking. I should’ve really put an /sarcasm or something.
[/quote]

yeahhh… T-Nation should really add a tonality button (hint hint)

30

[quote]roybot wrote:
I agree: that makes three! I definitely think that the OP is putting the cart before the horse. If he is confused about whether ‘muscle burn’ is responsible for hypertrophy or not, then it doesn’t look like he has an adequate grasp of the basics.

[/quote]
Exactly, I think the OP has taken a leaf too many from the book of Arnold.

To the OP, regards to the stupid answers to your original question. You come onto a forum such as T-Nation and ask who will look like Brad Pitt first is just a plain mockery for what the majority of us work hard for. Besides on a serious note your original question has so many variables to take into account that there is no way a definitive answer.

31

[quote]Addiction wrote:
roybot wrote:
I agree: that makes three! I definitely think that the OP is putting the cart before the horse. If he is confused about whether ‘muscle burn’ is responsible for hypertrophy or not, then it doesn’t look like he has an adequate grasp of the basics.

Exactly, I think the OP has taken a leaf too many from the book of Arnold.

To the OP, regards to the stupid answers to your original question. You come onto a forum such as T-Nation and ask who will look like Brad Pitt first is just a plain mockery for what the majority of us work hard for. Besides on a serious note your original question has so many variables to take into account that there is no way a definitive answer. [/quote]

You guys are wasting your time and simply keeping this thread at the top. If this many people tell you that your posts are “askew” and you still don’t get that maybe…your posts are askew…then anything else is just white noise.

It’s like there’s a whole group of these guys sitting around coming up with ways to word questions so they can predict progress instead of actually making any.

You can’t avoid trial and error.

32

[quote]Boss6 wrote:
Three guys walk into a gym.

Each is 30 years old, healthy, normal blood chemistry, good genetics, good potential to develop musculature. Each has an identical training backgrounds: They’be been 'weightlifting since high school, but have no great results to show for it. They know how to do all the basic exercises but none has ever stuck to a program longer than three months.
[/quote]

I thought we already had an “Anti-Jokes Thread”…

33

[quote]Professor X wrote:

You guys are wasting your time and simply keeping this thread at the top. If this many people tell you that your posts are “askew” and you still don’t get that maybe…your posts are askew…then anything else is just white noise.

It’s like there’s a whole group of these guys sitting around coming up with ways to word questions so they can predict progress instead of actually making any.

You can’t avoid trial and error.[/quote]

Sure. I agree that these questions are coming from people that focus on the intellectual side of things to the exclusion of any actual training. I think some people are obsessing over details to such a degree that they are afraid to start training because they think that one routine would have gotten them better results over another.

They aren’t prepared to just pick one routine and go with it, just in case the other routine might have yielded an extra pound of gains. To them, that would be enough to render the original program a waste of time. Certain people are so titillated by science, facts and figures, that their questions are getting closer and closer to what can only be described as ‘erotic fiction for bodybuilders’.

A pretentious fantasy scenario is devised by the thread starter, possibly in front of a roaring log fire or a similar romantic setting. The ‘author’ finds that they have been intellectually stimulated by the experience, and fools themselves into thinking that this somehow counts as both training knowledge and a substitute for training experience.

The focus shifts from learning for the sake of building size to learning to give the impression of size where there is none. And that’s when it all goes to shit.

I’m not directing this at the OP, because he’s not the only one guilty of opening a thread with a question like this, but it is obvious that the posters who come up with the most unnecessarily complicated questions are the ones that know the least. They either think that they know more than they actually do, or feel as if they need to appear as if they do in order to be taken seriously.

Using this thread as an example, the original question (“does muscle burn signify growth?”) really belonged in the beginners section. Instead, it was dressed up in jargon and unecessary details, as if the flashy exterior was some kind of ‘upgrade’.

Some individuals think that they can ‘leapfrog’ their way to intermediate or advanced theory, without having the basics in order first. They invariably fail to understand what they are trying to read because they underestimated the importance of the basics, so they attempt to fill in the blanks with guesswork. That in turn leads to questions that have no rhyme or reason to them.

I was basically trying to tell the OP to go back to the beginning, because he seemed to be struggling with theory that he didn’t have to concern himself with. Not yet at least. He had obviously taken a wrong turn at some point, and needed to be ‘put back on the road’, as it were.

That’s just my take on it, anyway. No more bumps from me.