A lot of love for the layers here! I’m going to have to give them a shot sometime. I was a big fan of the Bulgarian Training Simplified program. It was so simple, and the workouts were very quick.
Just don’t make the same mistake I did and do them while cutting. Just because there’s a “layers for fat loss” template doesn’t mean anything lol. After like a month of that I didn’t even wanna get out of bed in the mornings. If I ever manage to get unfat I’ll be going back to them fwiw
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Here’s a Blast from the past.
The iBodybuilder program.
Duly noted. As one of the resident skinny guys on the forum I probably won’t run into that issue for a while, long term bulk ftw haha
My first SGHP layer workout left my traps pumped for like 2 days, haha. I made a similar mistake as above in probably trying to cut too much carbs while doing the program, as well as retrospectively learning that it’s more a Type 1 program whereas I’m a 2B/3. I revisited by doing just one lift per week as a strength layer, and got my Front Squat back up to mid-200’s. My 2RM also flew up, so I could have probably done more in theory. That is all to say, Layers is highly effective, especially when adapted for your type.
I actually really liked 20 Minute Muscle Builder when I first went back to college as it was an easy way to keep lifting in my schedule while figuring out how to adjust my time management. I got a lot of physique compliments at that time as well.
Zombie Apocalypse while a more 2A style program was very fun and I got some ok results, but again probably tried to cut too much while doing it. I recently purchased the Thibarmy fat loss program and it crushed me after 2 weeks. Definitely NOT for me.
I’m currently back on 5/3/1 as per Neurotype 3 recommendations, and I’ve increased my carbs intake to 150-200g per day, in 6x25-50g feedings as per a post from CT and let me say I’m finally at the balance of making good strength gains while also improving body comp. Due to popular diet myths I have been afraid of carbs for years as an overweight person, so learning that that was probably hindering my progress due to cortisol has been an eye opener. I’ll probably stick to 5/3/1 for a little while longer to get back to a good solid baseline, then run something like 915. I’ll say my favorite thing about following CT is not just the programs but the philosophy and knowledge - like instead of saying Zombie or Thibarmy Fat Loss are “bad,” I’ve learned in what way they are inapplicable to me, and how to better choose programs in the future, from him or elsewhere.
I, Bodybuilder
and it was lots of fun. So many cool rep schemes in there. The dead pause flyes were horrible though haha
Re rings: thanks for the info
Re split: I will probably steal that. Train in my garage.
Edit: why no deadlift variation (squat stance?) if you prefer deadstop movements? (just wondering)
Sounds like I need myself some layers !!!
Primarily because it may be tough on the back to do clusters, explosives, high reps and eccentrics on deadlifts. If I layer on a DL, I will usually use different exercises for each layer look like heavy swings (explosive) 45 degree glute/ham/back (iso hold) rdl or pullthroughs for stf.
Personally, I don’t benefit from doing more than a couple layers at a time, but I will ramp up to a fairly heavy triple then do 1 kind of layer on 2-3 exercises in a workout. All layers work for me but not in the same workout or training block. It allows more frequency too.
Holy cow! I consider anything <200g per day a low carb day lol!
I’ve only run The Complete Power Look Program as written. It’s a great program but it beats me into submission. I’m more of a philosophy/principles kind of guy. I’m currently running 5/3/1 full body but I’ve adopted and expanded the money sets from The Best Damn Workout For Naturals. I actually do the old 21s style reps for certain exercises but I don’t do 7s. I usually do 8 or 10 reps depending if the weight (8 full/8 top half/8 bottom half). Some days I do two rounds of that to finish a muscle.
I’d say my favorite program (which I bastardize from multiple programs) is a combination of 5/3/1 and Best Damn.
That would actually work really well… main lift with 5/3/1, assistance like “Best Damn Workout”
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oh nice, deadlifts (athletic stance & sntach grip for me) are great. I would do a more standard ramp up to 3RM & then back off with EMOM sets. Actually hitting close to failure with clusters & HDL work I wouldn’t tolerate well…unless it is trap bar deadlift but i dont’ have hex bar now.
prob replace one of the squat days if not both (and then do front squat & zercher squat from pins as strength assitance).
man…after all the marketing hype for this one…it did nothing for me!! lol
just aching joints and mental/CNS patterns (the workouts were so confusing i seem to remember). i put it in the same category as the ratchet loading and 5 star complexes, i would need a real life CT to get me through those programs
Yeah one of the best ways to tell when layers will F** u up instead of providing gains is when, during the cluster and HDL sets, you don’t feel a pump, or increased activation/pump. Rather a grinding of joints and just like death on the nervous system.
That happened to me in my first “prep” when i was cutting but the EC and general adrenaline just kept me going. Looking back probably hurt my body and paying the price now.
Carbs (Plazma, i don’t know what it is, overpriced but definitely helped more tha placebo) during the layers were incredible. Each subsequent rep/cluster the muscles would get more and more pumped. And that was when i knew gains would happen (seemingly after each workout).
In the absence of that pump/engorged feel, little gains were made - so thats a nice little biofeedfback for me when doing layers at least.
For SGHP layers, did you do the HDLs as SGHPs 5/4/3/2/1 or as Karwowski shrugs with slow eccentrics?
You think that’s a blast from the past?!
I still occasionally break out stuff from The Black Book of Training Secrets. Like, the actual book book.
But The Best Damn Program has changed everything for me.
And now I’m off to pop in my copy of CT’s Cluster Training DVD…
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SGHP as 5/4/3/2/1 hdl sets (maybe 2 max…usually just 1 set these days). Karowski shrug/snatch grip as an assitance for straight sets in workout 1 and then zercher shrugs on 2. Fantastic fantastic stuff.
Is that you in the avi? Incredible physique…if you’re going to layer i will follow your progress for sure!
Ha, yeah, I used to try to stay less than 150, and I screwed it up by keeping it in 2 larger servings - one around workouts and one around dinner. So now with 150 as the minimum, and spread out in smaller feedings through the day, I feel much better overall.
Ah thanks, much appreciated (and ditto)! I’m actually running Thib’s GVT “layers” hybrid at the moment, but once I’m done with that I’m thinking of moving to a couple cycles Max Muscle layers. I’ve been running BDWP-style stuff for most of 2017, so I’m craving some heavier work.
Whats a day of training look like with these principles ?