T Nation

WHICH ONE???

It is really frustrating… Being a capitalist I really support the conservative ideals, although the Republican party that I see wants bigger government and more and more control (patriot act, and evengelical political leaders, other things that disturb me). They are also hypocrites, going after Clinton on a witch hunt like they did, then stonewalling access to all of Bush’s history (meeting minutes from his companies, his records as governor, etc… what should he have to hide?). They criticized the president as adamently as I have ever seen it done, as is our constitutional right, but then try to ostrocize anyone who questions the current president or his motives.

Democrats are generally self righteous and, frankly, just as corrupt as the republicans. They have their own agenda, and it usually ends up slapping on a few dozen extra fees and taxes on my already worn out, taxed out self.

I know you guys in here have pretty strident opinions either way, and my stance doesn’t really put me in good standing with either group. I am used to that, and I really don’t care. Honestly some days I am THIS close to actually running for an office of some sort (at the state level), because I have this quirk in my personality that wants to fix these problems. Trouble is, I don’t know which ticket I would pick. The robber barons or the taxaholics? No third party ever really has a solid chance of getting elected.

Just thinking out loud.

Just cancel your vote (if possible). That way you are certain your name and ballot will not be ‘used’ by ‘accident’ by somebody else.

For my part, the fully-responsible party that I would vote for does not exist. So I cancel. The only exception (non-canceled vote) is when I want the current administation OUT, specially when they have been there for too long.

Jesse Ventura would argue that last point with you. The Libertarians have gotten a few people people elected to state govt. in quite a few states as well.

If you’re dead set on one of the big two I guess it’s down to what kind of tie you prefer to wear. If it’s a bow tie don’t try the GOP.

There are enough libertarians out there to support and maintain viable political canidates. Unfortunately too many of them think the same way you do… that its a waste of a vote.

Weapon X - proud Libertarian member since 1994.

I am not even sure if I am a liberatarian… Based on my other posts, does that sound like a category that I would fit in? Send me a link on it so I can research it a bit, if you have one.

Roy, it sounds like many on the forum are in the same boat with you. I too am disenchanted with the Democrats, and doubt I would want to vote for any of those getting in the coming race.

Jesse did a pretty good job in MN & it was clear that his actions weren’t just payback to corporate contributors, but he really took it on the chin from the media there who treated him with contempt from day one, a constant problem for the “other” parties.

But from the sounds of it you would perhaps lean in the Libertarian direction.

I’m glad you’re starting to see through the deception. I began to see the light about 3 years ago. I was at one time a die-hard republican. I listened to Rush Limbaugh -my God was I a fool- everyday and had subscriptions to various “conservative” journals of opinion over the years.

The corruption in the 2 major parties is endemic. It cannot be turned around.

Don’t be afraid to vote your conscious just because your candidate is from a third party and stands little chance of winning.

I voted for Harry Browne (libertarian) last election. Many times people would tell me I wasted my vote. I don’t see it that way. I voted my conscious and that takes conviction and courage. You see, most people will tell you that they would love to vote for a third party candidate but they just couldn’t because he(she) didn’t have a chance. So, they ended up voting for the lesser of two evils. The problem is you still end up with evil. Both major parties love the “lesser of two evils” arguement because it keeps you voting for either one of them. And that is just what they want. Why feed the beast? Vote for who you really want to be in office no matter what chance he has of winning.

Really, their isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties. Alot of people like to refer to them as the republocrats and that certainly fits the bill.

If you want to check out the libertarian party here is the address www.lp.org They also have a cool little political qiuz to help the political wishy-washy in figureing out who they are.

Good luck and hopefully you’ll join the party of principle. Take care Roy.

Political parties suck. The Democrats have gone off the deep end, and seem to be the most twisted conniving group you could imagine. The Republicans at leas have some good ideas. But then they get stupid. Or they fall for the Democrats tricks over and over again. Every time the Democratic Party causes a problem they have successfully placed blame on the Republicans (i.e. when the government was shut down as planned by Al Gore, all blame was placed on the Republican party.) Or twist any statement they make as being for the rich (those damn rich people, it is ok to hate certain groups of people,) or make any statement seem like a bigoted statement. (Now it is not ok to hate a group of people.)

I should point out that I am specifically referring to the people in power, and not the general population, (the sheep.) The Democratic politicians are twisted in their views, and are willing to go to any lengths to get what they want, while the Republican politicians are just a group of morons.

The best thing to do is make the population more intelligent. It is harder to fool a person who knows what is going on. Problem is that people are too willing to let others think for them. Whether it is Moore, or Limbaugh, or O’Reilly, or Sarandon, you have to think for yourself. I naturally have more respect for some of these people then others, but nobody should just listen to these people and accept their words as fact. And be even more cautious of what any politician says.

I have thought about running for a political position, but after about a month I would be bored out of my mind. Unfortunately I think it would be easy to win. (Would you be willing to vote for a person who, when debating, would look at the other person after he/she made the usual political bs statement, and say, “Do you actually believe that crap?” and then go on to directly and coherently explain things without the political “fluff”?)

Oh yeah, I will vote for the better of the two candidates that has a chance of winning. If I don’t see a difference, or cannot choose between them then I would be willing to vote for a third party candidate.

It is really nice to actually watch someone wake up. I have been saying for a long time that there is no real diffence between the republicrats and the other one. They both want to grow govt and their power – just in different ways. Unfortunately, the libertarians are not a viable party. The country is pretty much sown up by the two party system, in conjunction with corporate interests. This is because most people do not want freedom – they want security and giveaways. Its over. Don’t sweat it, just make as much cash as you can, move away from crime, and stay out of the govts way. That is all you can hope for at this point. Getting upset and going on a crusade is a waste of time.

Huck,
That post is pure brilliance. Thank you. You hit that old nail on its proverbial head! Thanks for your clarity.

Huck has an intersting view on this, and about half the time I’m tempted to do exactly what you said. I’d be happy as a pig in slop going the hermetic route with a dreamhouse on a rural plot away from the crap.

But the idealist in me still rears its head. Perhaps your post was partly in jest, but taking part in the cash grab is exactly what got us in this pickle to begin with.

While I agree that the “two” parties along with their corporate partners have everything vertically integrated to the nth degree - would you really give up and join em?

I guess many people reconcile the 2 and do some philanthropic work as well as looking out for #1… that seems natural enough, and Lao Tzu himself would probably agree.

But as the Jesse Ventura example shows, when the republicrats get caught snoozing change is possible (small as it may be).

I’m careful to try and not buy products from brands I know contract their labor to sweatshops - but sometimes the cool Nike running shoes serve my purpose… my point being that absolutely giving up on making a change, no matter how tiny, would follow “their” playbook to a T.

Do you see the Republicrats encouraging the 50% of the population who don’t vote to get involved?

In any case, I’m practising my nature survival skills

Like most have already pointed out, both parties…well, they suck. The Democrats have basically lost it. They just want power and could care less what happens to America, as long as they keep their power.

Examples:

Universal healthcare. Does anyone else have a bitch of a time seeing their doctor as it is. This is pure crap and sounds like something out of Cuba. Which is probably why it is so popular amongst certain democrats.

Political correctness. This is an act more associated with extreme liberalism, like Nathan Say liberalism. In California teachers can no longer use the term "Founding Fathers" because of its masculinity, or something. Teachers must use "Founding Framers". Beyond silly.

I could write a book, but that's enough. I'm just getting angry anyway.

The republicans, on the ohter hand, refuse to address immigration. Which is what will bring this country down, not the Patriot Act or some similar laws. Our country is being used and abused by illegals to the point it makes my head spin. I'm going blank but the amount of tax money it cost U.S citizens to pay for the benefits that illegal aliens receive is staggering. That in itself is almost funny considering illegal aliens have *NO* rights whatsoever because they are here ILLEGALLY! (Yes I'm shouting)They are breaking the fucking law but no one will even mention it. Bush is far to concerned with the Hispanic vote.

Oh, and do not get me started on the 15 *Billion* sent to Africa for AAIIIDS.

Okay, I'm getting pissed so I'm going to end my already long post. Does anyone have any suggestions to America's problems?

Dustin (Who's now going to go watch more of How the West Was Won)

Huck has an intersting view on this, and about half the time I’m tempted to do exactly what you said. I’d be happy as a pig in slop going the hermetic route with a dreamhouse on a rural plot away from the crap.

Did it. It works. I am in a rural area, but close enought to real cities to buy anything I cannot get over the net. At the same time, crime, etc – non existant out here.

But the idealist in me still rears its head. Perhaps your post was partly in jest, but taking part in the cash grab is exactly what got us in this pickle to begin with.

My post was completely serious. Making as much money as you can through trade is not a “money grab”. It is the only fair way to insulate yourself from the gov’t and stupid people.

While I agree that the “two” parties along with their corporate partners have everything vertically integrated to the nth degree - would you really give up and join em?

I don’t see it as giving up. Would you get into the ring with Tank Abbot? Sometimes descretion IS the better part of valor. Also, what is the point in expending resources to help those who don’t mind what is happenning?

I guess many people reconcile the 2 and do some philanthropic work as well as looking out for #1… that seems natural enough, and Lao Tzu himself would probably agree.

Sounds like a good balance.

Do you see the Republicrats encouraging the 50% of the population who don’t vote to get involved?

Of course not.

In any case, I’m practising my nature survival skills

Not a bad idea, although I don’t think it will come to that.