Which Martial Arts?

You ain’t gonna learn much in one month!

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Brahms wrote:
Hello,

I want to learn some martial arts this summer. I’ve never done it before. My options are:

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
Judo
Kung Fu
Muay Thai

These are the classes offered by my univeristy and i’d prefer to stay here. They are one month long courses and the classes are 2 hours long, twice a week.

My goal is to kick ass basically

The best martial art is the one you get the most personal growth out of.

Not the one that lets you “kick the most ass.”

There’s a good reason that martial art masters aren’t constantly thrown in prison for crippling people (despite the fact that they easily could).

Hopefully seriously taking one of these arts will change your perception a bit.

You need to go re-educate yourself on what the word “martial” means. You can get tons of personal growth from the boy scouts. Martial arts teach you how to fight.
[/quote]

Actually, the term “martial” is related to war. Hence, true “martial arts” (the art of war) would deal very little with hand-to-hand combat and be concerned mostly with tactical maneuvers, rations for troops, etc etc.

But yes, in our language, a “martial artist” is one who undertakes education in a hand-to-hand fighting style.

But be real for a second. Do you think martial arts teachers go home after teaching thinking “I hope my students kick a lot of ass today!”… or do you think they have goals of instilling confidence, disipline, self respect, and the ability, if need be, only to defend themselves?

IMO, unless you’re training for a competitive MMA style sport, taking a martial arts to learn how to “kick ass” is like aspiring to become a priest so you don’t have to pay taxes.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
jamej wrote:

  1. For me Judo is the most fun. Judo players are typically in the best shape of all martial artists (here come the flames). Judo is just as good as the others in terms of self defence (here come more flames). In terms of self defence I am convinced that it is the fighter not the style that matters most.

I’ve met my fair share of chubby Judoka.
[/quote]

Me too. I would say that judoka tend to be in the worst shape, because someone is talented can usually end the match in less than 30 seconds. Most judoka (myself included) are huffing and puffing like a freight train after 10 straight minutes of rolling on the mat like an average BJJ class.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Actually, the term “martial” is related to war. Hence, true “martial arts” (the art of war) would deal very little with hand-to-hand combat and be concerned mostly with tactical maneuvers, rations for troops, etc etc.

But yes, in our language, a “martial artist” is one who undertakes education in a hand-to-hand fighting style.

But be real for a second. Do you think martial arts teachers go home after teaching thinking “I hope my students kick a lot of ass today!”… or do you think they have goals of instilling confidence, disipline, self respect, and the ability, if need be, only to defend themselves?

IMO, unless you’re training for a competitive MMA style sport, taking a martial arts to learn how to “kick ass” is like aspiring to become a priest so you don’t have to pay taxes.

[/quote]

Along with strategy and tactics comes training of actual combat dude. It’s not like our troops are taught how to manuever without ever going to the firing range and doing a little HtH.

Again, a martial art’s purpose is to teach you how to fight. All that other stuff is fluff. If you want to be become more confident, join the boyscouts or take up bodybuilding. If you want to be able to fight, take a martial art.

And yeah, my trainer always smiled whenever I’d show up to training with a black eye and ask me how I got it. He liked the fact that I fought.

Figure out why you want to do a martial art and what you want to get out of it, then, as other posters have mentioned go check out each art. The teacher and the class environment are much more important for your first art than exactly what you’re doing.

Kung fu is a catch-all term. It can be pretty near anything from a forms factory to < http://undergroundkungfu.com/ >. Don’t discount it, just be wary, as there is a lot of crap out there.

CaliforniaLaw- where are you in Cali? I’m one of Emin Boztepe’s LA students.

Andrew

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Actually, the term “martial” is related to war. Hence, true “martial arts” (the art of war) would deal very little with hand-to-hand combat and be concerned mostly with tactical maneuvers, rations for troops, etc etc.

But yes, in our language, a “martial artist” is one who undertakes education in a hand-to-hand fighting style.

But be real for a second. Do you think martial arts teachers go home after teaching thinking “I hope my students kick a lot of ass today!”… or do you think they have goals of instilling confidence, disipline, self respect, and the ability, if need be, only to defend themselves?

IMO, unless you’re training for a competitive MMA style sport, taking a martial arts to learn how to “kick ass” is like aspiring to become a priest so you don’t have to pay taxes.

Along with strategy and tactics comes training of actual combat dude. It’s not like our troops are taught how to manuever without ever going to the firing range and doing a little HtH.

Again, a martial art’s purpose is to teach you how to fight. All that other stuff is fluff. If you want to be become more confident, join the boyscouts or take up bodybuilding. If you want to be able to fight, take a martial art.

And yeah, my trainer always smiled whenever I’d show up to training with a black eye and ask me how I got it. He liked the fact that I fought.[/quote]

Hm. A martial arts teacher who gets off on his students fighting. Thats sad, IMO.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Actually, the term “martial” is related to war. Hence, true “martial arts” (the art of war) would deal very little with hand-to-hand combat and be concerned mostly with tactical maneuvers, rations for troops, etc etc.

But yes, in our language, a “martial artist” is one who undertakes education in a hand-to-hand fighting style.

But be real for a second. Do you think martial arts teachers go home after teaching thinking “I hope my students kick a lot of ass today!”… or do you think they have goals of instilling confidence, disipline, self respect, and the ability, if need be, only to defend themselves?

IMO, unless you’re training for a competitive MMA style sport, taking a martial arts to learn how to “kick ass” is like aspiring to become a priest so you don’t have to pay taxes.

Along with strategy and tactics comes training of actual combat dude. It’s not like our troops are taught how to manuever without ever going to the firing range and doing a little HtH.

Again, a martial art’s purpose is to teach you how to fight. All that other stuff is fluff. If you want to be become more confident, join the boyscouts or take up bodybuilding. If you want to be able to fight, take a martial art.

And yeah, my trainer always smiled whenever I’d show up to training with a black eye and ask me how I got it. He liked the fact that I fought.

Hm. A martial arts teacher who gets off on his students fighting. Thats sad, IMO.
[/quote]

I think it’d be even worse if he was a martial arts teacher that was more concerned about my personal development than my ability to be able to fight.

You wouldn’t ask your milkman to fix your car, so why would you ask your fight coach to teach you how to be a good person. Between you and me, that’s what my parents were there for.

I am curious why do so many people say that grappling art like judo or BJJ is more fun than a kicking/boxing art like Muay Thai. I have not done a grappling art before and I intend to do one in the future but it seems to me something like Muay Thai is more fun as you get be on the offensive and attack the person

teotjunk

[quote]teotjunk wrote:
I am curious why do so many people say that grappling art like judo or BJJ is more fun than a kicking/boxing art like Muay Thai. I have not done a grappling art before and I intend to do one in the future but it seems to me something like Muay Thai is more fun as you get be on the offensive and attack the person

teotjunk[/quote]

Honestly, the reason more people pick grappling arts is because you don’t get punched in the face. You don’t almost throw up in pain from knees the day after practice. You don’t get your nose broke.

Grappling is hard, don’t get me wrong, but actively training in a sport that requires getting hit and hitting back requires a level of commitment most people aren’t willing to make.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I think it’d be even worse if he was a martial arts teacher that was more concerned about my personal development than my ability to be able to fight.

You wouldn’t ask your milkman to fix your car, so why would you ask your fight coach to teach you how to be a good person. Between you and me, that’s what my parents were there for.
[/quote]

I think it would be even better if his main concern was you being able to, as a last resort, defend yourself. Not go out and start trouble because you want to show how cool you are for getting into fights.

Most people I know go years without getting into fistfights, if ever. The fact that you’ve done so enough to get the repeated attention (praise) of your trainer indicates to me that you went out looking for fights. I could be wrong, but thats just what I interpret from it.

To me, only seeing a martial art as a way to go out and beat people up is a serious case of missing the forest for the trees.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I think it would be even better if his main concern was you being able to, as a last resort, defend yourself. Not go out and start trouble because you want to show how cool you are for getting into fights.

Most people I know go years without getting into fistfights, if ever. The fact that you’ve done so enough to get the repeated attention (praise) of your trainer indicates to me that you went out looking for fights. I could be wrong, but thats just what I interpret from it.

To me, only seeing a martial art as a way to go out and beat people up is a serious case of missing the forest for the trees.[/quote]

Dude, how do you think you “defend yourself”? It’s a fight. You can try to delude yourself and say “Oh, I’m not fighting, this is self defense”, but the reality is that you’re training yourself in the most effective ways to cause bodily harm/death to your fellow human beings.

And no, I never went out looking for fights. I spar with my friends, testing my skills in a controlled environment.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
I think it would be even better if his main concern was you being able to, as a last resort, defend yourself. Not go out and start trouble because you want to show how cool you are for getting into fights.

Most people I know go years without getting into fistfights, if ever. The fact that you’ve done so enough to get the repeated attention (praise) of your trainer indicates to me that you went out looking for fights. I could be wrong, but thats just what I interpret from it.

To me, only seeing a martial art as a way to go out and beat people up is a serious case of missing the forest for the trees.

Dude, how do you think you “defend yourself”? It’s a fight. You can try to delude yourself and say “Oh, I’m not fighting, this is self defense”, but the reality is that you’re training yourself in the most effective ways to cause bodily harm/death to your fellow human beings.

And no, I never went out looking for fights. I spar with my friends, testing my skills in a controlled environment.[/quote]

Was your teacher aware that you sparring with your friends, or was he under the impression that you were going out and fighting strangers?

And yes, there is a difference between “fighting” and “defending yourself”. Trying to hurt someone else and trying not to get hurt are totally different things.

Hell, many martial arts were practiced mostly by priests because they weren’t allowed to carry weapons while traveling and were often attacked. I dont expect a priest would be most concerned with “causing the most harm and death” so much as “not getting beaten and robbed”.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Was your teacher aware that you sparring with your friends, or was he under the impression that you were going out and fighting strangers?

And yes, there is a difference between “fighting” and “defending yourself”. Trying to hurt someone else and trying not to get hurt are totally different things.

Hell, many martial arts were practiced mostly by priests because they weren’t allowed to carry weapons while traveling and were often attacked. I dont expect a priest would be most concerned with “causing the most harm and death” so much as “not getting beaten and robbed”.[/quote]

I’m not a mind reader dude, how should I know?

And there is no difference. The intention might be different, but the methods are the same.

If someone tries to hurt my wife, and I cold cock him with a left hook to the jaw, how is that any different than if I’m the aggressor and cold cock someone with a left hook to the jaw?

And priests? I hope you mean monks, in either case, you’re buying into so many martial arts fairy tales that I don’t even know what to say, but martial arts have also been employed the world over the pillage, destroy, conquer, and kill entire civilzations.

You can keep deluding yourself if you want dude, thinking that you’re Mr. Miyagi and you lead a better life, but at the end of the day, you’re training yourself to be able to hurt/kill your fellow human being.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
If someone tries to hurt my wife, and I cold cock him with a left hook to the jaw, how is that any different than if I’m the aggressor and cold cock someone with a left hook to the jaw?
[/quote]

blank stare

Uh… because in one instance you’re doing it to protect your wife? and in the other, you’re…um… not?

You can’t seriously not see the difference there.

I refuse to accept that you cant see the difference between punching someone to protect your wife and punching someone because you feel like it.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
If someone tries to hurt my wife, and I cold cock him with a left hook to the jaw, how is that any different than if I’m the aggressor and cold cock someone with a left hook to the jaw?

blank stare

Uh… because in one instance you’re doing it to protect your wife? and in the other, you’re…um… not?

You can’t seriously not see the difference there.

I refuse to accept that you cant see the difference between punching someone to protect your wife and punching someone because you feel like it.[/quote]

Again, the intention is different, the method is the same. This is the point I’m getting at. It’s why the primary importance of a martial art is on the ability to fight.

I refuse to accept that you can’t realize this basic fact.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
T3hPwnisher wrote:
If someone tries to hurt my wife, and I cold cock him with a left hook to the jaw, how is that any different than if I’m the aggressor and cold cock someone with a left hook to the jaw?

blank stare

Uh… because in one instance you’re doing it to protect your wife? and in the other, you’re…um… not?

You can’t seriously not see the difference there.

I refuse to accept that you cant see the difference between punching someone to protect your wife and punching someone because you feel like it.

Again, the intention is different, the method is the same. This is the point I’m getting at. It’s why the primary importance of a martial art is on the ability to fight.

I refuse to accept that you can’t realize this basic fact.[/quote]

And if a doctor was going to perform surgery on your heart to save your life, he would cut your chest open in order to get to it.

And, if a man was trying to kill you, he may stab you in the chest, cutting it open.

Same method, different intention.

But I dont suppose you would suggest that a doctor learning to make an incision is the same as “learning how to stab someone”.

I still see a vast difference between “fighting” and “self defense”.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
And if a doctor was going to perform surgery on your heart to save your life, he would cut your chest open in order to get to it.

And, if a man was trying to kill you, he may stab you in the chest, cutting it open.

Same method, different intention.

But I dont suppose you would suggest that a doctor learning to make an incision is the same as “learning how to stab someone”.

I still see a vast difference between “fighting” and “self defense”. [/quote]

I am terrified of your knowledge of the medical world if you feel that a doctor uses the same incision and tools of a man trying to murder you. My point is that an attacker and a defender both use the same left hook, because the left hook doesn’t know if it’s being used to attack or defend.

A doctor and a murder use different tools (a knife vs. a scapel) and different methods (a small incision vs. a stab/slice).

Given your current envoriment, I’d go with Muay Thai hands down. Learn BJJ later on after you’ve worked on your striking. I mean BJJ is fun and all and it does come in handy, but you’re a college student. Meaning most of the fights you would get into, if you get in any, would probably be at parties and bars (duh).

Chances of you getting into a fight with other people jumping in are fairly good. So trying to submit someone on the ground while another person stomps on your head is less than ideal. Being on the ground is the last place you want to be in a crowded area filled with drunk kids who think they’re bad asses after watching a couple UFC fights.

You’ll have a much better chance in a fight if you knock someone out and then concentrate on the next opponent. Haha plus, if you knock out a person his friends will be less likely to want to get into the middle of it.

But definately learn BJJ as well, not all fights stay on the feet. I mean if you could, I’d learn both but definately go with Muay Thai as a choice if you only have time for one. Definately do not try them all and choose the one that you like best. Go with my opinion because I’m a freakin’ genius. And because it’ll give you some sick pleasure having your fist/feet/knee/elbow smash into someones face.

And along with the methods being the same in the left hook example, the goals are the same as well: Knock a person out. In the doctor vs. murder example, the goals of the movements are entirely different as well.

Gonna throw my two cents in here, seeing as I’ve recently started doing martial arts, as well (last six months).

I’ve started doing some grappling and BJJ stuff after my normal classes (Krav Maga, a style that borrows from muay thai/boxing/Jiu Jitsu; used by military and law enforcement; hell Bas Rutten designed the ground-fighting for KM) and the one thing I can certainly say is this:

BJJ and grappling are great in the ring and if you’re only facing one opponent in the street. If you try some fancy grappling techniques or try putting a dude in an arm bar in a street fight, you better make damn sure that he doesn’t have friends, or they’re gonna stomp you into shit paste.

Some people seem to think that BJJ and the styles used in sport fighting are The Shit in fighting, but I’m sorry (and I opine here), if you don’t learn how to fight when there could be multiple attackers or if they’re using weapons, when the heat is on, you’re fucking dead. There are no referees on the street. There’s no one to save your ass when that guy and his buddies have decided they want to send you to the morgue.

Some people here will argue, and I’m not even gonna reply to that, but you’ve got to consider Real Life in these kinds of choices. No way in hell will I try to put someone in an arm bar (the various types of which I am now learning), if he’s got friends standing around waiting to kick me in the face.

Honestly, out of the styles you mentioned, I’d go with Muay Thai and/or Judo. BJJ is great for sport fighting and if you plan on doing MMA, professional or amateur, in the ring.

When in doubt, run the fuck outta there. Better to vamoose and let them laugh at your back than you ending up on a slab. In fact, this reminds me that I need to start working on sprints.

But when you have no choice but to lay it down, attack fast and hard and don’t stop until your opponent is KTFO, whichever style you choose.