Which Martial Art?

This thread has convinced me to never get on the internet again.

[quote]Sikkario wrote:
This thread has convinced me to never get on the internet again.[/quote]

i would ask why but seen as your never going to use the internet again and therefore, never see this, there isn’t any point.

to everyone else, thanks for the input. i appreciate it.

It’s been a long time since I answered this question/gave my opinion.

Personally I’m bored with the topic.

BUT: This time I’ll add my opinion.

As a guy with some MA and RLSD experience I can say this:

Conditioning and acrobatics: WuShu, and many of the other “Hard” chinese kung fu styles. (I’ve NEVER had a more intense anaerobic workout than these, and the stretching was insane).

“Ego” Fighting (defined as: “hey, you looking at me?” or “hey, you just spilled your drink on me”…A.K.A.:fighting over stupid stuff): SanDa or a combination of Boxing/MuyThai and Greco-Roman Wrestling.
–personally I think Jiu Jitsu and other “locking” arts are overrated in a real fight. In these situations, “locks” usually are not applicable, and “breaks” are never performed. So what is the point of learning them?

High and pretty kicks and other flashy stuff: TaeKwonDo and WuShu

Real Life Self Defense (when your butt is on the line and there is ABSOLUTELY no other choice): Tim Larkins Target Focused Training.

my .02.

AD

And this is a good post too. I have not studied Sento (yet), but it looks practical in RLSD.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Really any art that has a “competition” aspect will be pretty good for conditioning.

There are examples of grappling arts, striking arts, weapon based arts, and self defense based arts that fall into this category.

Grappling arts include:
Wrestling (freestyle, greco, catch as catch can)
Jiu-Jitsu (either BJJ, or traditional forms)
Judo
Sambo
Pankration
etc…

Striking arts include:
Boxing
Muay Thai/Muay Boran
American Kickboxing
Savate
etc…

Weapons arts include:
Arnis
Kali
Dog Brothers’ “RealContact Stickfighting”
Kendo
Western Fencing
Goshindo
etc…

Self Defense arts include:
Lysak’s Sento Method
Dynamic Combat
JKD (really depends on the instructor though)
Krav Maga
Hagannah
etc…

Also, that’s not an exhaustive list. I’m also not suggesting that the “style” being taught at the school will always be indicative of the quality of instruction or the conditioning development. Though, there are certainly arts in that list that as a rule are generally big on conditioning (wrestling probably being the most intensive and sure fire IMO).[/quote]

[quote]texasguy2 wrote:
IMO, go with some form of grappling. The striking arts are fun and look flashy but are way too one dimensional. 95% of all fights wind up on the ground anyways, so if you can learn to take a punch, take people down and control ground action, you will win almost every time.

Watch the old school UFCs on video. For the most part, the old school fighters were trained in one discipline or another with out much cross training.

With the exception of lucky punches, grapplers usually won. Even if they lost, they controlled the fight the entire time, only to be caught with an unlucky flying knee or some shit.

[/quote]

In a real street fight most grappling/TaeKwonDo exponents would get stabbed to death, eye gouged or have their genitals destroyed.

To the OP: The 3 most important things to being successful in a MA are:

  1. The Master
  2. The Student
  3. The Method

If all three are excellent then there is no doubt you will excel at the MA.

Personally if you are lucky and blessed enough to find a real Shaolin or Silat Master, then you should go for that school if they are willing to accept you.

Both arts are totally complete with both groundwork, striking and ‘conditioning’.

Do some research on them.

Best of luck Shire.

Hi, Wukey, sorry I’m being a lil bitch to you. Look man, I would go into why this thread bothered me, but is not worth it.

Point yourself in the right direction, what interests you?

This is what kind of bothered me, you have the wrong attitude man. Martial arts, are fighting, somewhere people got that confused. They are the same thing, if you want to be good at a martial art, you are going to have to fight, with other practioners that is. There is noone who is going to teach you a mystical kick that will dominate an opponent.

You�??re options are not limited at all, just like your lifting training starts with YOU. Anyone who is half decent in the martial arts, trains themselves and then gets some tutelage from classes. You should start with making a martial arts training journal, in the same way you would have a fitness, and try to learn more about it.

[quote]I’m planning on doing much more research befor i choose, so please don’t assume i’m trying to get you guys to do that for me. All i want is some helpfull pointers so i know where to focus my research.

Many Thanks.[/quote]
No problem man. Good luck

You need to change your attitude to be good at martial arts, it all starts in the mind.

[quote] undeadlift wrote:
Boxing is your best bet. I wonder why you say you’d be poor at it.

i can’t take a punch, i’d end up on the floor all the time. and i thought (rightly or wrongly) that sice i’m fast and dexterouse i’d be better to do a martial art.[/quote]
Why are you on T-Nation, with that kind of attitude, this is what pissed me off, anyways. Here is what you need to remember. In the Hagakure, there is a quote. The word that come out of a man�??s mouth, expose what is within his heart. Thus if you say �??I cant take a punch, id end up on the floor all the time.�?? You just show that in your heart you are a bitch. You have chosen this path for yourself. Jigoro Kano, the creator of Modern Kosen Judo, was 90lbs soaking wet, he never apologized for that, and would battle men of full size and strength, noone would teach him the noble art of jiujitsu, so instead he took it upon himself to instruct himself, when a teacher saw the strength he had brought onto himself, he took him as a pupil and shared his strength with him as well. So what I�??m saying is, you are telling me that you are incapable of boxing, but you are a perfectly healthy man, when at the same time jigoro kano was a fucking midget, and still had the ability to kick someone�??s ass. He did it because he knew he could, he spirit was strong.

BTW Boxing a martial art.

Aside from all the other bullshit.

The question comes, to properly know what you want, is to ask, what are YOU looking for in martial arts?

In my experience, I have done, jiujitsu, wrestling, sanshou, aikido, boxing and judo.

All of them had their qualities, without knowing WHY you are interested in the martial arts, I can�??t give you a proper description.

I�??d suggest just jumping in, getting yoru feet and trying to sampela lot of different things.

However, most of all, train on your own first and foremost, and then go to class.
You won�??t get good just going to class.

I beat a Judo blackbelt my first day training because, I had trained throws for years on my own, and he didn�??t anticipate the power I brought to the table, he instead was only learning from class.

Martial arts function around your body, and thus, only you yourself can learn to do them well, as a tall man teaching a short man to kick box, won�??t beget that great of result. You know yourself, sample arts, train yourself first.

My own personal preferences lie in Western martial arts as the have this principle, in Boxing and Wrestling, while Eastern arts are far more theory. The Western arts are practice and application.

[quote]Sikkario wrote:
Hi, Wukey, sorry I’m being a lil bitch to you. Look man, I would go into why this thread bothered me, but is not worth it.[/quote]

thats is a pointless think to say, if you can’t be bother to say why something bothers you, why take the effort to say that you can’t be bothered?

what? so if you wanted to be a surgon, befor you got to medical school youd start operating on road kill? or if you were new to lifting youd just start lifting things regardless of weather you might be getting bad habbits/injuring yourself. Also i did state that i am doing reasurch, lots of reading and asking for advice for the more experienced, but i’m not going to start kicking and punching things till i break a bone in my hand or foot cos i’m doing it wrong

my attitude? researching, asking advice, showing a willingness to learn and above all knowing that i know less that the people i ask advice from (its called respect) yes i can see this ‘attitude’ problem you speak of

[quote] undeadlift wrote:
Boxing is your best bet. I wonder why you say you’d be poor at it.

wukey wrote:
i can’t take a punch, i’d end up on the floor all the time. and i thought (rightly or wrongly) that sice i’m fast and dexterouse i’d be better to do a martial art.[/quote]

he asked a question, and i gave my reasoning, if you read down the thread you’ll see i was informed that my ability to take a punch would increase with training, and i have taken onboard this information. this was the exact reason i asked for help choosing, if it weren’t for this thread i would have completly disregarded boxing.

easy one to answer, i’m here to learn and show respect to thoes who are willing to teach
the rest of what you said in that paragraph was a massive tangent so i deleted it)

from the posts i’ve seen of yours so far, you strick me as an adulesent, there is an air of imaturity in what you write. (if i’m wrong i appologise) don’t feel bad about it, i was just like that when i was yonger, and all i managed was to do was to get peoples backs up, and they didn’t help me when i needed it. just think about that when you next start slinging shit about, what goes around, inveriably comes around.

PS sorry to hear you’ve been feeling down. i hope my coments on your thread helped.

You got me all wrong man, what I am tyring to say is. You can teach yourself martial arts very well on your own, and that is the main place where it starts ie balance, stances etc.

Ya I didn’t why you were interested in learning the martial arts from your first post.

I got that you were well coordinated, dextrous, of above average reflexes and of above average strength, that you do not want to go around street brawling.

But are you after, artform, self defense, athleticism…something else, that is what I am asking.

There are many different things going on in the martial arts.

You have styles with weapons, styles with fanciful forms (more akint o dancing) styles which completely disregard striking for soft methods, and styles which focus more or less on completely brutality. It important to know what appeals to you, why do you find martial arts appealing.

For example when I think of Martial Arts, I think of a built guy, boxing and wrestling another opponenet…but that is a very western ideal. Others think of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon…so it’s really kind of vital to know what you actually think of Martial Arts, to give you an accurate suggestion.

[quote]Sikkario wrote:
You got me all wrong man, what I am tyring to say is. You can teach yourself martial arts very well on your own, and that is the main place where it starts ie balance, stances etc.

Ya I didn’t why you were interested in learning the martial arts from your first post.

I got that you were well coordinated, dextrous, of above average reflexes and of above average strength, that you do not want to go around street brawling.

But are you after, artform, self defense, athleticism…something else, that is what I am asking.

There are many different things going on in the martial arts.

You have styles with weapons, styles with fanciful forms (more akint o dancing) styles which completely disregard striking for soft methods, and styles which focus more or less on completely brutality. It important to know what appeals to you, why do you find martial arts appealing.

For example when I think of Martial Arts, I think of a built guy, boxing and wrestling another opponenet…but that is a very western ideal. Others think of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon…so it’s really kind of vital to know what you actually think of Martial Arts, to give you an accurate suggestion.
[/quote]

from my original post…

does that not answer your question?

[quote]Sikkario wrote:
You got me all wrong man,
[/quote]

maybe, proove me wrong.

If you’re jsut looking for general fitness and conditition, then kickboxing or wrestling is where to start. I imagine kickboxing, as organized wrestling is a little bit closed to those outside of scholastic and collegiate environments.

Kickboxing, would be great. If you want something a lil more practical try, sanshou (combat sanda) its basically kick boxing with throws and take downs. It’s kungfu streamlined into western style practice.

Sorry I haven’t responded but it seemed like plenty of people have given valid input.

What have you sat in on so far? What are you leaning towards?

[quote]Sikkario wrote:
You got me all wrong man, what I am trying to say is. You can teach yourself martial arts very well on your own, and that is the main place where it starts ie balance, stances etc.
[/quote]

Actually Sikkario, I would strongly suggest that Wukey NOT try to teach himself from scratch. That’s a good way to teach yourself bad habits/motor skills. Now, once he’s been training for a little while and has a good base to work from, then he can start to try to teach himself things. Also practicing the skills outside of class (while he is already training them in class) is also a great way to develop a high level of skill.

That doesn’t mean though that he can’t practice coordination, balance, etc… It is true that the more control he has over his body, and the more general athleticism he has, the easier it will be to learn a martial art.

[quote]Backlash79 wrote:
Sorry I haven’t responded but it seemed like plenty of people have given valid input.

What have you sat in on so far? What are you leaning towards?
[/quote]

everyone seems to be surgesting kickboxing, and i’ve yet to sit in on one of them classes yet, should be going this weekend.
I’ll keep people updated if your all interested. give me till next weekend, thats when i’m making my choice.

Great posts here; but I really wonder why nobody mentioned about Capoeira. It’s fun and makes your arms and legs much stronger. About actually fighting with someone; living in Turkey I learned that most people actually have guns. So you jumping fast, having a strong leg or a strong arm doesn’t change the fact that a bullet can kill you. So act wise; be a civilized human being and don’t try to involve in any fight.

Martials arts can be defined in two main categories. One is striking; and the other grappling. (I ain’t counting weaponry as a part of it; sorry, then a scimitar can get involved)

In striking; boxing and Wing Chun are about punching. Capoeira, Savate, Taekwando are about kicking; and Muay Thai, Karate, and Shaolin Kung Fu strikes using the above and elbows, knees and open-hand.

In grappling; Glima, Judo, Jujutsu, Sambo and Shuai Jiao are about throwing. Aikido, Brazilian Jui-Jitsu and Hapkido are about Joint lock. Ah; Judo also have pinning techniques just like wrestling.

There is no best martial art; I like the Brazilian music and Capoeira fits me most. Plus the people I do it with are my friends; so I’m sorry I can’t be the wise guy who’ll say “you should do this son”.

Do what fits best to you. Where you feel comfortable and have a good time.

[quote]Nerval wrote:
Great posts here; but I really wonder why nobody mentioned about Capoeira. It’s fun and makes your arms and legs much stronger. About actually fighting with someone; living in Turkey I learned that most people actually have guns. So you jumping fast, having a strong leg or a strong arm doesn’t change the fact that a bullet can kill you. So act wise; be a civilized human being and don’t try to involve in any fight.
[/quote]

Capoeira is a great art for improving balance, body control and athleticism (a lot of breakdancing has been strongly influenced by capoeira and gymnastics). It’s not all that beneficial in terms of combative skill, but since Wukey didn’t seem like he wanted to get into martial arts in hope of becoming a professional fighter, Capoeira might be a good choice. The problem is though that schools are much harder to find than a lot of the styles that have already been mentioned.

Actually I don’t really like that method of categorizing the arts. For instance there are arts that use both grappling and striking, there are weapon arts (sorry but to be honest if you don’t think that training with weapons is relevant then you’re not really thinking about reality, you yourself mentioned guns), arts specifically designed around “dirty/street effective” techniques (such as Kina Mutai), etc…

I like categorizing arts into three categories

  1. Exhibition arts (basically arts that have pretty much lost their martial applications and are purely used for forms/exhibition venues or health purposes) such as Wushu, Xtreme Martial arts, breaking, tai chi, etc…

  2. Competition arts (basically sport combative arts) such as wrestling, judo, TKD, kickboxing, boxing, MT, etc…

  3. Self Defense arts (basically arts that are specifically designed for when the shit hits the fan, basically no rules, no ref, no rounds) such as Sento, DCM, some BJJ schools, Krav Maga, Senshido, Chu Fen Do, etc…

Using that form of categorization it’s not only easier for many people to choose an appropriate art for their goals. But, it also gives every art some form of value (which is something a lot of methods of categorization fail to do).

For Wukey, I’d say that he’d probably be better off with either an exhibition or competition art (based on what he’s stated he is interested in).

[quote]
There is no best martial art; I like the Brazilian music and Capoeira fits me most. Plus the people I do it with are my friends; so I’m sorry I can’t be the wise guy who’ll say “you should do this son”.

Do what fits best to you. Where you feel comfortable and have a good time. [/quote]

Completely agree with that statement.

I don’t either. However, there are ton of ways to categorize them. It gets really pretty intricate once you know a bit about all of them.

[quote]Sikkario wrote:
Actually I don’t really like that method of categorizing the arts.
I don’t either. However, there are ton of ways to categorize them. It gets really pretty intricate once you know a bit about all of them. [/quote]

Yes, that’s definitely true. As long as your method of categorizing them makes sense to you, and to the person who you are trying to communicate your method to. Then it’s all good. :slight_smile:

[quote]wukey wrote:
PS, do you box? is that why you advised that one?[/quote]

Yeah. I did boxing-for-fitness once. It’s nice because you get a trainer all to yourself. I’m now doing Muay Thai, and it’s a lot more intense. Lots of pushups, squats, squat thrusts, lunges, etc.

I never did Wushu, but I suggested it because it is one of the 2 martial arts (along with Yaw Yan) that is dominating my country’s MMA league. I never did Jiu Jitsu either, but it’s definitely a great discipline both in fighting and conditioning.

[quote]wukey wrote:
Backlash79 wrote:

Checking out the schools themselves would be a better bet rather than choosing a style. I’d at least do 1 intro class at a few schools you have interest in. Some schools sound great on paper but are black belt factories, it goes without saying that anyplace that just gives away what is supposed to take years to earn is NOT worth your time.

For general fitness/conditioning in the way you talk about conditioning I’d go with kickboxing(depending on the style they teach) or boxing. Traditionally southern styles of gung-fu is very big into hard body conditioning(but less into the fitness/conditioning aspect).

Sounds like sage advice. I’ve contacted a kick boxing school and a Kung Fu school this morning and i’ve been invited to join in on their tuesday and saturday lessons (respectivly) for free. Is there anything i should be looking for? how would i know how good they were seen as i have no martial arts experience?

I’ve found a Jiu Jitsu school nearby but looks like the nearest Wushu school is in Leeds UK which is a bit inpractical. (I live in sheffield UK)

Thanks for the pointers so far.[/quote]

Just wanted to add to this.

You’re off to a good start by calling and arranging a meeting. This gives the instructors time to plan how they want to conduct their class as well as interview you and provide whatever written material they have. I believe the school is more important than the style. These are some general guidelines I use to evaluate a new school.

Things to watch for:

  1. Those interested in developing long-term students, those who teach more for the love of the art than the money will probably offer you a 1 to 2 week free trial period. You can participate just as any other student and decide if its for you or not. A really great TaeKwonDo school gave me a month to evaluate the classes, then told me to go check out all the other schools in town. I eneded up training there for about 3 years.

  2. Take note of the training attire. If you’re not comfortable with the uniform then you probably won’t enjoy the classes. Some schools really need specific gi’s and some just go crazy with their uniforms. Personally I prefer more relaxed uniform standards. Arts like Judo or BJJ need thicker double weave gi’s, while arts like karate can get along just fine with cotton pants and a t-shirt.

Be weary of schools that are obsessed with strict uniform standards for crap reasons like “tradition” or “discipline”. Such schools often have rigid/inflexible training ideal that are slow to respond to changes in the martial arts community. Simple personal preferences also plays a part here. I’ve seen Karate/TKD gi’s with more patches than a NASCAR driver, which just annoys the hell out of me, and I never liked practicing Aikido in a hakama.

  1. Some schools have turned scamming students out of their money into a form of art unto itself. If the instructor has movie/TV appearences listed in their credentials then they are probably selling flash or substance. Be weary of special “Blackbelt-In-A-Year” programs, or any special programs/clubs associated with Ninjas, Tigers, Dragons, Mystic Warriors of the purple dong, etc…These are all means of making you pay more with little additional return.

If a typical class is comprised of different students wearing different uniforms (i.e. some in white gi’s, others in red gi’s, and another group in black gi’s), chances are lots of folks are being duped into spending alot of cash. Are the uniforms sold strictly thru the school or can they purchased anywhere? Some schools like to require specific sparring gear that only they sell.

  1. Look at the Class:$$$$$ ratio. How many classes per week can you attend for X amount of dollars? As a beginner you should be able to attend AT LEAST 2 classes per week. After 3 months that number should go up. After 12 months you should be able to attend 4-8 classes per week. Will the additional classes cost additional money?

  2. Sparring/Randori. This is a big one for me. In grappling/throwing arts randori should be apart of every class. For striking arts 3 times per week should be minimum. You should be sparring within 3 months of your first class. The sooner, the better. You first sparring sessions should be against the more advanced, long-time students. They should be feeling you out and testing your demeanor, so that they know how to pair you up in the future.

Don’t take things too seriously. This is recreation after all. Have fun.