T Nation

Which Kind Of Bulk?


#1

Hi, i was wondering what you guys think will be more beneficial for me when I'm bulking. I am currently 15 years old, 6'2, and I weight 160 pounds (73 kg), I really don't have a lot of strength or not much muscle because I'm skinny fat, hence why i weight 160 pounds at 6'2 and that I'm not all that strong.

My question was which bulk option should i do, and which one would help me the most overall (short term+long term)

Plan A- Go on a regular bulk (clean), raise 500 calories over maintenance and go on a good routine like Starting Strength or do a 3 day split (I might have to do a split because i have been prescribed accutane and from what Ive heard, people get bad joint pain from lifting heavy weights, its one of the common side effects, so i might not be able to do starting strength because of the demanding weight and compound movements) also add in cardio for minimizing fat gain

Plan B- Go on a SLOW CLEAN bulk to minimize fat gains even more, like raise only about 300 calories but still gain about 2 pounds a muscle a month, i was aiming for this one because I would put on the same amount of muscle with less fat, this one i think would help me out more because I'm skinny fat and i want to gain little fat. I would be looking to gain about 2 pounds a month, about a pound every two weeks?

remember, I'm skinny fat

if i choose a plan B how many calories over maintenance would be considered slow enough to gain muscle with little fat? and would adding cardio be necessary?

Thanks,
Gilligan

Here is a picture of me currently


#2

Holy shit. It’s not complicated. Just eat a lot and lift heavy shit for a long time. You’re 15! Eat everything. Eliminate the word “cutting” from your vocabulary. Forget about fat gains (which you’ll likely have to work pretty hard to do) and fuck abs.

I’d also say you should pick strength goals to pursue while eating big. Start squating and deadlifting.

It’s not a rule that people get joint pain from big weights. Can it happen? yes. Will it happen to a 15 year old? probably not. You can’t get bigger without lifting bigger. Get stronger.

You’re not skinny fat, you’re just skinny.

Cliff notes:
-you just need to eat a lot. Mostly clean food, but a little dirt won’t hurt either.
-get stronger
-eat a lot
-get stronger
-eat a lot
-get stronger
-eat a lot


#3

[quote]boyscout wrote:
Holy shit. It’s not complicated. Just eat a lot and lift heavy shit for a long time. You’re 15! Eat everything. Eliminate the word “cutting” from your vocabulary. Forget about fat gains (which you’ll likely have to work pretty hard to do) and fuck abs.

I’d also say you should pick strength goals to pursue while eating big. Start squating and deadlifting.

It’s not a rule that people get joint pain from big weights. Can it happen? yes. Will it happen to a 15 year old? probably not. You can’t get bigger without lifting bigger. Get stronger.

You’re not skinny fat, you’re just skinny.

Cliff notes:
-you just need to eat a lot. Mostly clean food, but a little dirt won’t hurt either.
-get stronger
-eat a lot
-get stronger
-eat a lot
-get stronger
-eat a lot
[/quote]

yea i guess you are %100 right, i don’t know, i guess its from all of the information I’ve been reading on the internet and in books, it made me want to do everything right. i will definitely take your advice into considerate and stop worrying about this kind of stuff


#4

No offence dude, cos we are all trying to help, but you are not “SKINNY FAT”, your just skinny!!!

Tho here is my answer (to it’s not mine, someone else posted it a while ago and i thought it was so good i kept it), and i’m assuming that you ant to put on s much muscle as possible in the shortest time (tho it will take time!),

If you are in your 17 - 23:
There is no possible reason to stop eating and growing. If you goal is to be huge eat right up to the point of your dad kicking you out of the house.

If you are 24 - 33:
You have no excuses. Get a damn job and buy your own food and eat and eat and eat until you hit your goal. If your goal is 250 lean, eat till you are 280 - 300.

If you are 34-40:
You are quickly losing your window to actually put on real muscle. You should already be big, or be nearing your goal by the time you are here. Those that have been bulking for 10-15 years should have no problems, but guys just getting into the game at this point should realize they are playing against a stacked deck. The new guys should pay extra attention to their nutrition. You are not 18 anymore.

If you are 40+
Tough shit. Unless you are getting some Vitamin T, I would not gain more than 20 pounds without seriously assessing the quality of the gains, and the side effects of the extra weight - blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. You can gain more on the juice, but you still need to pay pretty close attention to your overall health. Nutritional choices become more important. You are damn sure not 18 anymore.


#5

You’re getting into lifting at a great time in your life. You only need to observe three rules:

  1. Eat as if you weigh 280. Serially.

  2. Lift fucking heavy.

  3. Do not neglect any single muscle in the afore-mentioned heavy fucking lifting.

After you get good at following these three rules, THEN worry about other shit.


#6

The kind where you eat everything in sight, including lots of Protein, and lift fucking hard 5 times a week.

I’m 16 and I can tell you that I wasted the first few months of my training when I started at 15. I put on maybe 5lbs over 4-5 months trying to follow a “clean bulk” of skinless chicken breast and Protein shakes.

I put on 50lbs in maybe 3-4 months when I started eating everything and drinking a gallon of milk a day.

Dude, your picture, holy dick you’re skinny. Don’t worry about fat gain; it
s not like you’re gonna put on much anyways. At our age, we can eat anything and turn it into muscle.

That doesn’t mean to think that McDonalds is good every day. Still try to eat relatively clean, but you can generally eat whatever. Try to get lots of extra calories in from carbs like rice and buckwheat. Drink that gallon of milk a day.

Also, don’t get too caught up in supplements. They’re really not a big deal. You can get some Creatine as it’s very cheap, but besides that, I wouldn’t even worry about post-workout shakes until you put on 20lbs. Just drink milk post-workout and then eat carbs and protein.

Good luck


#7

[quote]Gilligan7408 wrote:
(I might have to do a split because i have been prescribed accutane and from what Ive heard, people get bad joint pain from lifting heavy weights, its one of the common side effects, so i might not be able to do starting strength because of the demanding weight and compound movements) [/quote]

Accutane is the acne medication right? If so I took whatever the local varient we have in Aus when i was your age and didnt experiance any joint pain.
I’d say go for starting strenght then if you start to experiance any severe joint pain change your workout then, don’t just avoid it compltely on the off chance you may experiance join pain.

And as every one else has said on this thread before me, just eat and eat and train and eat and then train some more.

Good luck to you


#8

[quote]Artem wrote:
The kind where you eat everything in sight, including lots of Protein, and lift fucking hard 5 times a week.

I’m 16 and I can tell you that I wasted the first few months of my training when I started at 15. I put on maybe 5lbs over 4-5 months trying to follow a “clean bulk” of skinless chicken breast and Protein shakes.

I put on 50lbs in maybe 3-4 months when I started eating everything and drinking a gallon of milk a day.

Dude, your picture, holy dick you’re skinny. Don’t worry about fat gain; it
s not like you’re gonna put on much anyways. At our age, we can eat anything and turn it into muscle.

That doesn’t mean to think that McDonalds is good every day. Still try to eat relatively clean, but you can generally eat whatever. Try to get lots of extra calories in from carbs like rice and buckwheat. Drink that gallon of milk a day.

Also, don’t get too caught up in supplements. They’re really not a big deal. You can get some Creatine as it’s very cheap, but besides that, I wouldn’t even worry about post-workout shakes until you put on 20lbs. Just drink milk post-workout and then eat carbs and protein.

Good luck[/quote]

He’s right, EAT EVERYTHING, except things with sugars and sweeteners in them. However I would argue eat more fat than carbs, and a shitload of protein. Dont be afraid of fat. I was just like you except 6’2 170 then I ate everything… now im 215. About supplements, Stick to basics like creatine monohydrate, glutamine, BCAA’s if you have the stomach for it.


#9

I hate it when people say eat everything in sight. Some people have no idea how much more a dude can eat than he needs.

I’d argue for eating a bunch of food, and keeping a record of your weight and lifts to make sure they’re both slowly going up.

This may or may not be a big thing, but if you gain 5 lbs/week for a month, you’ll hate yourself for it.

Unless of course, you simultaneously double your squat, bench and deadlift, I suppose. That would be cool.

The point though is MONITER your progress. Make sure that it’s there, and that it’s steady.


#10

wow guys, thanks a lot for answering my question. I will take all of your advice!

Thanks!

Gilligan


#11

[quote]Otep wrote:
I hate it when people say eat everything in sight. Some people have no idea how much more a dude can eat than he needs.

I’d argue for eating a bunch of food, and keeping a record of your weight and lifts to make sure they’re both slowly going up.

This may or may not be a big thing, but if you gain 5 lbs/week for a month, you’ll hate yourself for it.

Unless of course, you simultaneously double your squat, bench and deadlift, I suppose. That would be cool.

The point though is MONITER your progress. Make sure that it’s there, and that it’s steady.[/quote]

Have you seen his picture? He’s not just going to wake up fat one morning. Of coarse you need to monitor your progress, but counting calories at this level is unnecessary.

Eat everything in sign doesn’t mean watch TV and eat a giant bag of cheeze its. Drink lots of milk and straight eat a few spoonfulls of peanut butter every few hours. Eat quality food with protein and good carbs and fats, but eating some McDonalds to get in extra calories won’t hurt you.

If you’re lifting hard, most of it will go to muscle.


#12

[quote]Gilligan7408 wrote:
Hi, i was wondering what you guys think will be more beneficial for me when I’m bulking. I am currently 15 years old, 6’2, and I weight 160 pounds (73 kg), I really don’t have a lot of strength or not much muscle because I’m skinny fat, hence why i weight 160 pounds at 6’2 and that I’m not all that strong.

My question was which bulk option should i do, and which one would help me the most overall (short term+long term)

Plan A- Go on a regular bulk (clean), raise 500 calories over maintenance and go on a good routine like Starting Strength or do a 3 day split (I might have to do a split because i have been prescribed accutane and from what Ive heard, people get bad joint pain from lifting heavy weights, its one of the common side effects, so i might not be able to do starting strength because of the demanding weight and compound movements) also add in cardio for minimizing fat gain

Plan B- Go on a SLOW CLEAN bulk to minimize fat gains even more, like raise only about 300 calories but still gain about 2 pounds a muscle a month, i was aiming for this one because I would put on the same amount of muscle with less fat, this one i think would help me out more because I’m skinny fat and i want to gain little fat. I would be looking to gain about 2 pounds a month, about a pound every two weeks?

remember, I’m skinny fat

if i choose a plan B how many calories over maintenance would be considered slow enough to gain muscle with little fat? and would adding cardio be necessary?

Thanks,
Gilligan

Here is a picture of me currently


[/quote]

I took accutane for a couple of months. I’d be lying if i told you that my joints didn’t ache. I felt…old, Just work through it as best you can until you don’t have to be on it anymore. It does suck, but i only noticed it when i wasn’t in the gym, like walking around, sitting around, etc. Mostly noticed it in my lower back.


#13

Take fish oil good for joints as it’s as an anti-inflammatory.


#14

[quote]Otep wrote:
I hate it when people say eat everything in sight. Some people have no idea how much more a dude can eat than he needs.

I’d argue for eating a bunch of food, and keeping a record of your weight and lifts to make sure they’re both slowly going up.

This may or may not be a big thing, but if you gain 5 lbs/week for a month, you’ll hate yourself for it.

Unless of course, you simultaneously double your squat,

bench and deadlift, I suppose. That would be cool.

The point though is MONITER your progress. Make sure that it’s there, and that it’s steady.[/quote]

I agree w/ Otep.

In today’s world it is even easier for people overeat the WRONG SHIT.

telling someone to “Eat everything in sight and lift heavy” and expect them to get big and jacked is retarded.

in order to gain strength you need to eat ample amounts of correct food.

unless these people live in a world where protien shakes, chicken, rice, meat and veggies are the ONLY thing they can get their hands on…they shouldn’t take that crap advice.

even if someone is skinny now; that doesn’t mean they can’t get fat. if you don’t think i’m right…you are stupid. (elitist anyone?)

if this skinny kid wants to gain weight, he needs to eat and he needs to know what types/amounts of food HIS BODY will accept best.

however i do agree with “lift heavy, often”…only after he gets his form correct. lifting heavy and often for a n00b is stupid b/c they don’t know shit…or they wouldn’t be a n00b.

OP, go at it right. eat good, eat a lot, lift correct. train hard.

good luck.


#15

ROFL.

What kind of a diet allows you to put on 2 pounds of muscle a month while eating only and exactly 300 calories over maintenance?


#16

Yeah, I could go through a list of what to eat and what to avoid. Most people already know the difference between real food and crap, though. I’m not going to insult someone’s intelligence by telling them that a pork chop with potatoes and green beans is better than two bags of fritos and a dr. pepper. They know that already.

If you eat the right foods, it’s hard to eat too much. Hell, it’s not exactly EASY to eat enough. Just avoid the crap, and you’ll be alright.


#17

Wow you are one skinny fucker.

I can tell you right now your not going to make fuck all progress because all your doing is reading and getting too complicated for yourself. Not lift because you might get sore joints? Come the fuck on. Your 15. You probably can’t even lift heavy enough to get sore joints.Go lift 5 pound dumbbells then and eat fish and brocolli and you might just get jacked one day.

Your 15 FFS your metabolism will take care of the fat. Compound movements are neccessary. Have you even lifted a fucking weight yet? Or have you just spent weeks researching?


#18

I was pretty similar to you when I started out, 3 kgs heavier and a little leaner. I don’t have a before pic but I must’ve looked horrible. No offence, you’re on the right road by coming here.

Now, for a breakfast that will put some hair on your chest (with slabs of muscle and a layer of fat). Bacon omelette. A package of bacon and 4 or so eggs with 2 pints of milk. I have no idea how many calories that is, but it should get you started for the day.

Fuck, I must’ve been skinny.


#19

[quote]Artem wrote:
The kind where you eat everything in sight, including lots of Protein, and lift fucking hard 5 times a week.

I’m 16 and I can tell you that I wasted the first few months of my training when I started at 15. I put on maybe 5lbs over 4-5 months trying to follow a “clean bulk” of skinless chicken breast and Protein shakes.

I put on 50lbs in maybe 3-4 months when I started eating everything and drinking a gallon of milk a day.

Dude, your picture, holy dick you’re skinny. Don’t worry about fat gain; it
s not like you’re gonna put on much anyways. At our age, we can eat anything and turn it into muscle.

That doesn’t mean to think that McDonalds is good every day. Still try to eat relatively clean, but you can generally eat whatever. Try to get lots of extra calories in from carbs like rice and buckwheat. Drink that gallon of milk a day.

Also, don’t get too caught up in supplements. They’re really not a big deal. You can get some Creatine as it’s very cheap, but besides that, I wouldn’t even worry about post-workout shakes until you put on 20lbs. Just drink milk post-workout and then eat carbs and protein.

Good luck[/quote]

Damn 50 pounds?? Nice one.

OP, I’m 15 here also. I think as long as you follow basic lifting rules of lifting heavy and hard, STRICT nutrition isn’t that important. But eating a whole cake in one sitting is still bad.


#20

I’m 16…started a month before I turned 16. Used to be pretty damn fat…about 70 lbs overweight. Took 3 years of eating incorrectly and not knowing what I was doing to lose that…Then I became way to skinny for my own good… I’m 5’8 and was around 120ish lbs? So last may I started hitting the gym. Absorbed all the information I possibly could about clean dieting and lifting, found two mentors in my area who are ex powerlifters and started my journey. it’s around 6 months now and I’ve been 150% no deviation strict to my diet, I monitor what I eat and I lift until I puke (quite literally sometimes) I’ve went from 120 to 145 and stayed incredibly lean.

The picture in my profile is the before picture…I refuse to take another until may 21st to show progress. :). If you really learn everything there is and apply it to you, realize that you are unique in your goals and your bodily functions, than you will truely gain alot of success and muscle mass. Remember, compound lifts first, then if you have time to spare do a few auxiliary for fun :slight_smile: I don’t do a set program but I know which lifts I like, which release the most hormonal response and which hit the neccesary muscles. It is also worth noting that I follow Dr. Berardi’s teachings in terms of diet.