Whey Insulin Spike & Fat Loss

Paul D’Arcy from EliteFTS: ( http://www.elitefts.com/documents/lean_healthy.htm )

"Heres a hint, stop drinking your protein! Its making you fat! You dont need a protein shake for breakfast, after your cardio, or as a between meal snack. Stop it!

Protein shake? Are you serious? Why is it called a shake anyway? Because you shake the bottle to mix it? A shake is made with ice cream where I come from, not protein. Forget the protein shake. Liquid protein has an enormously high glycemic load and insulin response compared to animal protein, and if this shake of yours isnt immediately after a hard and heavy training session, then Im afraid your precious and chocolaty delicious shake is just making you fat. Knock it off!"

Im curious what everyone thinks about the significance of this claim. I tend to have a meal or two /day of whey outside of pwo (shakes, cooking with it, etc), usually later in the day and am wondering if it is hindering fat loss on a low carb diet (one of the aims of which is keeping insulin in check). Anyone experienced any differences consuming shakes vs whole food proteins while cutting? The Velocity diet of course seems to fly in the face of this, however the casein/whey blend, fiber, and healthy fats consumed may offset any negatives. Your thoughts?

I always wondered this. I’ve made my best results (fat loss or strength/hypertrophy) by limiting my dairy protein intake to less than 60 grams per day or protein from shake form (and the rest (~100+ gr) from animal (non-dairy) sources). Nothing scientific but I thought I’d share that.

I don’t think it’s fair to say whey has a high glycemic load though. Sure some aminos can convert to sugar, but I don’t think whey’s glycemic reposnse is high compared to say candy.

Better yet, avoid all carbs and protein to keep insulin levels low.

(yes, this is sarcasm)

It does produce an insulin spke like most dairy products.

And yes it does hinder your fatloss if that is your goal!

Its ok, if taken after lifting weights.

Isn’t it just that what you want after a workout or in the morning? A good insuline response to get the amino acids to where you want them?

Nobody’s gonna get fat from a whey shake PWO.

An insulin spike carrying amino acids through your bloodstream while you’re in a deficit of calories sounds like a great way to preserve muscle mass…that being said, if possible, I would go animal protein versus shake except possibly morning and peri-workout.

[quote]Jorge Garzafox wrote:
It does produce an insulin spke like most dairy products.

And yes it does hinder your fatloss if that is your goal!

Its ok, if taken after lifting weights.[/quote]

Wait. Are you saying whey protein hinders fat loss?

How did you come to that conclusion?

What if its in a meal that is rich in fats and/or fiber/low GI carbs?
Eg. A whey/casein blend and a couple of tablespoons of olive oil or a handful of nuts?

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

I feel like crap if I eat a meal which spikes my insulin. Whey protein shakes do not do this to me. Test this on yourself.

I think the author is correct in stating that, all else being equal, solid foods will have a lower GI than liquid, but this is unimportant if the GI of a meal is already low.

I guess that I forgot to put some if’s and a might in my sentences!

If you are fat and you are not loosing bodyfat or weight depending the case and you diet it’s 100%, whey might be the cause.

Off course if you are in a low calorie diet it will help maintain your muscle mass.

I prefer the diets of my patients to be dairy free if they are trying to get leaner, I prefer food.

Sure if you are a big guy with lots of muscle mass and low bodyfat it will no hinder your fatloss if you do not overdo it.

[quote]vikingrob wrote:

[quote]Jorge Garzafox wrote:
It does produce an insulin spke like most dairy products.

And yes it does hinder your fatloss if that is your goal!

Its ok, if taken after lifting weights.[/quote]

Wait. Are you saying whey protein hinders fat loss?

How did you come to that conclusion?[/quote]

[quote]Jorge Garzafox wrote:
I guess that I forgot to put some if’s and a might in my sentences!

If you are fat and you are not loosing bodyfat or weight depending the case and you diet it’s 100%, whey might be the cause.

Off course if you are in a low calorie diet it will help maintain your muscle mass.

I prefer the diets of my patients to be dairy free if they are trying to get leaner, I prefer food.

Sure if you are a big guy with lots of muscle mass and low bodyfat it will no hinder your fatloss if you do not overdo it.
[/quote]

That’s one awfully big ‘if’.

I’ve worked with plenty of people to lose fat and I’ve yet to find one that was kept from their goal because of consuming whey protein.

The whole worry over insulin is silly for the vast majority of people on this site. Almost everything we eat causes insulin fluctuations. Way too many 150 lb guys already afraid to eat anything that’s not “clean” for fear of getting fat, or worse, getting diabetes that it’s ridiculous. There are even people afraid to eat fruit for this very reason.

The average trainee would be better served focusing on the big picture of whether they are eating enough, or restricting enough if fat loss is the goal.

How significant is the Insulin spike from whey alone?

Whey (concentrate for the purpose of this post) does get absorbed fast, and has amino acids that can turn into sugars, but is this enough basis to claim to avoid it?

Does the glucagon release from eating protein not partially negate insulin’s affects? Also, what is added should be considered, as many who would have a ‘shake’ as a meal replacement would add something to it to make it tastier (Peanut Butter, Cottage Cheese, Psyllium Husk), which can all affect the Insulin response.

And if this is the case, then stay the hell away from MAG-10 protein for pulsing, as that REALLY spikes Insulin.

[quote]HK24719 wrote:

[quote]Jorge Garzafox wrote:
I guess that I forgot to put some if’s and a might in my sentences!

If you are fat and you are not loosing bodyfat or weight depending the case and you diet it’s 100%, whey might be the cause.

Off course if you are in a low calorie diet it will help maintain your muscle mass.

I prefer the diets of my patients to be dairy free if they are trying to get leaner, I prefer food.

Sure if you are a big guy with lots of muscle mass and low bodyfat it will no hinder your fatloss if you do not overdo it.
[/quote]

That’s one awfully big ‘if’.

I’ve worked with plenty of people to lose fat and I’ve yet to find one that was kept from their goal because of consuming whey protein.

The whole worry over insulin is silly for the vast majority of people on this site. Almost everything we eat causes insulin fluctuations. Way too many 150 lb guys already afraid to eat anything that’s not “clean” for fear of getting fat, or worse, getting diabetes that it’s ridiculous. There are even people afraid to eat fruit for this very reason.

The average trainee would be better served focusing on the big picture of whether they are eating enough, or restricting enough if fat loss is the goal.[/quote]

Smart post. Everyone should read Knowledge and Nonsense by Jamie Hale.

I hope this is a joke and not something serious. Whey protein.

I actually don’t eat fruit because it doesn’t raise insulin enough, haha.

I personally got to 4% having multiple whey protein shakes a day.

I agree I try to get all my calories and protein from “real food”. Only in an extreme case I take a protein"shake". If you read any of Berardi’s diets…none of them will tell you to drink a protein shake or eat a protein bar.

Here is an article written by CT about his body transformation.

It’s a great article, and I have read it over many times. Towards the end he is at 9% body fat and mentions that he consulted with Chris Janusz, aka swolecat. At the end of the transformation CT looks unbelievable. Unfortunately he does not tell us exactly the diet that he followed.

However, I have a friend who had a custom program made for himself by Janusz which produced excellent results. I saw the program, and two or sometimes three times a day he was supplementing with a whey protein shake. The only stipulation was that it was supposed to have less than 3g of carbs; the fewer the better. I’m not sure what this guy is talking about, but it sounds like horse shit. I personally have used whey shakes, in conjunction with solid proteins and been able to drop significant bodyfat in short periods of time. Including taking them 1/2 hour before bed. There always seems to be a great deal of controversy regarding protein intake. I suggest trying it for yourself and see what works for you first hand.

[quote]robmartinez09 wrote:
I agree I try to get all my calories and protein from “real food”. Only in an extreme case I take a protein"shake". If you read any of Berardi’s diets…none of them will tell you to drink a protein shake or eat a protein bar.[/quote]

Does this have anything to do with the OP’s post?

Just because JB usually uses whole foods, and his recipes, in the generic diets he publishes doesn’t mean that he recommends against using whey protein.

For what it’s worth, I’ve seen him drink a protein shake at a seminar we both attended, so my guess is that while he prefers whole food (which is good), he does not have an issue with using whey protein to fill in the gaps.

^That’s why they ousted him from this site! haha