T Nation

Whey during excercise

Bodybuilding
#1

Hi everyone,

Ive being following JBs advice of spreading your pwo shake 1/2 during ur workout and half immediately after. Im drinking 20g whey PP with 32 oz gatorade, and sipping half of it dilluted in watre throughout my workout.

I was wondering if Whey would be oxidized during my workout due to the large energy demands, sparing little or no protein for growth?

1 more question. I know that insulin stops fat burning, so, if i have large ammounts of insulin during my workouts i wont be burning fat, what does the body use in case clycogen stores run out and u still have lots of insulin in ur body? Muscle?!

Thanks,

Rollus

#2

Anyone?

#3

Your body prefers to use glucose for enrgy during your workouts, not fat.

#4

I thought your body started burning some fat in between sets, when heart rate lowered, but now itll have to waste some precious glycogen in between sets too, thanks to insulin, right?

#5

Rollus,

That is a good point. The confusing issue is the body’s preference to use glucose over fate during weight training.

Why would the body prefer glycogen over fat at a heart rate 60-75% of max (120-145 bpm)? Wouldn’t fat be the primary source? Wouldn’t the glucose be utilized at very high intensities (80-90% of max heart rate)?

Clarification on this issue would be great. Can anybody answer these questions? Thanks!

#6

If you are drinking half of 20g pro and 32g carbs during and after the workout that comes up to 16g carbs and 10 gs protein during the workout and the same pwo. Or do you drink 20 and 32 during and 20 and 32 after?

If its 16 and 10 i must say its way too low. You need a lot more carbs than that to get an insulin spike and alot more protein to rebuild and grow.

I suggest 32 grams of carbs during the workout with a mere 10 grams of protein, followed by 50 grams of carbs and 25 grams of protein after.

#7

During rest your lean muscle tissue uses fat as it’s primary source of energy during rest. I’m not talking about rest inbetween sets. I’m talkin about after your body has come down from your complete workout.

The reason the body doesn’t use fat as much during weight training is because it is primarily an anaerobic activity, meaning oxygen really isnt being used. The glycogen is what is really driving the enery in your body durin this anaerobic exercising. As opposed to during aerobic exercising, where oxygen is present and causing the ATP production. In order for fat to be “burned” to create energy, oxygen must be present. And as I said before, the weight training is primarily an anaerobic exercise, so fat isn’t being utilized.

You were right about the heart rate having to be lowered to use the fat for energy. But with weight training you’re using explosive motions where the oxygen doesn’t even have a change to catch up. It can be compared to sprinting for example. The first 45-90 seconds of moderate-heavy exercise is anaerobic, due to the cardiopulmonary system requiring time to catch up to increase the blood and oxygen to the muscle. Now when you think about it, most sets don’t last more than a minute in length.

I hope this has helped. I’m in the process of going through schooling to get my Athletic Training BA and then onto my Masters for Exercise Physiology. Still a lot to learn, but I had just gone over similar material not too long ago. If you need further explaination or any help with what I said just post another reply or private message me in case I don’t make it back to this particular post.

-Matt Biancuzzo

#8

Good follow-up Matt.

Each year I usually diet down to about 6% bodyfat. Last year I did a little more cardio and ate extra calories to compensate.

The result was more muscle loss than ususal. I agree that the body burns most fat at rest. Therefore, a combination of HI cardio, weight training and dieting (12 x lbm, 50%Protein, 30% Carbs, 20% Fats) should be optimal.

It always seems to work best. Although, I’d rather eat more (protein & fats, not carbs) and do more cardio. What does your research tell you? Thanks!

#9

It’s not that simple levelheaded. Yes weights is classed predominantly as anearobic. But if a set takes you one minute then it cant be all anaerobic as the energy systems are a continuim and are not black and white. ATP/PC is for the first 10 seconds or so, so you must cross over to another system at some point? Your mention of anaerobic for the first minute is sort of right, but remember also that if you have a 30 second rest or so, the next minutes set this will not nearly be the case as you have elevated your heart rate and used the muscles already (plus you should have done a warm up with weights which will lessen the effect). This will become more and more so with each passing set. I also have a degree or two and realise that I know next to nothing. There is a saying, “the more you know, the more you realise you don’t.” It is so true. I spend nearly every spare minute reading books and articles and am always amazed at how little I know.

#10

The reason i drink so little protein and carbs during workout is because i weigh 125 pounds, and im following JBs advice of splitting my pwo drink in 2, first half during workout, other half immediately after.

Thanks for your replies guys,
ur always of great help

#11

I actually drink 50grs carbs, each gatorade has 25g carbs, and 20 grams whey, so each half of my shake has 25g carbs and 10 grams whey.
Isnt these what JB recommended for a guy with my weight(125 pounds)
Oh, and BTW, im 17 and 5’6’’, ive gained 7 pounds in 6 weeks :slight_smile: (this is my first time bulking, and I couldnt have achieved anything without ur help t maggers :slight_smile:

#12

At your weight, you should keep insulin high 24h/day. No joke. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone you have, take advantage of it.

#13

Is it at all important wether it is fat or carbohydrate that is burned during exercise?
Not if your focus is lowering bodyfat levels.
The determining fact is wether there is a caloric deficit, wether you burn fat or carbohydrate during exercise is irrelevant. Hint: look at sprinters.

There are many potential problems with not ingesting carbohydrate during your workouts: you might end up using amino acids (muscle) for energy. Not an optimal situation!

With regards to the low blood glucose levels and high insulin levels it is not likely to occur during exercise:

  1. glucagon and cortisol levels are elevated during exercise. These hormones “draw” fat and glucose in to the bloodstream, this prevents low glycose levels during exercise

  2. Insulin response is blunted during exercise. What mechanism governs this I don’t know…

In short: High insulinlevels and low blood glucose levels are not likely to occur during exercise.

With regards to the amino acids in whey being used as energy during exercise: what scenario do you prefer?
Amino acids from muscle being used or amino acids from your whey shake?

I can’t really understand the reason for this interlectual exercise?
There is no reason not to ingest carbohydrates during exercise. This is the time during your day you are least likely to store fat!

So as you see the point is not burning the most fat, it is avoiding fat accumulation.

Hope it made sense…

#14

sorry bout that, meant that the energy systems dont just cross over but more a tendency from one to the other/s. Of course with an elevated heart rate between sets you are going to be usuing fat as a fuel source. But then if you believe about heart rate percentages for fat utilization, then you would not use hiit training. Again, it is not that black and white. I would rather burn off a low percentage of fat at a high calorie expenditure than a higher percentage at a lower caloric expenditure.

#15

Based on your reply, you wouldn’t support doing AM cardio in a fasted state. How about taking in 10-15 grams of glutamine immediately before and after? Then wait an hour before you eat your first meal?