Whey Allergy!? Ah, Crap!

Yes folks, it’s true - I’m allergic to whey and caesin, and this is a fairly recent occurance. (whey moreso than caesin). So basically, milk products are out of the picture. I’m lookin’ at lots of eggs, hydolized wheat protein, and POSSIBLY soy - I’m still debating that one, I’m scared off by all the talk I’ve heard about estrogenic properties, but I’ve yet to see any research on it yet, and I was also wondering if using Rez-V regularly could help abate any potential PROBLEMS of soy. (soy’s cheap and tastes good - other stuff more expensive and tastes awful… you see why I’m leaning in that direction, yes?)

I’m sure that increasing the meat intake in my diet will be necessary as well, obviously - this I have no problem with :slight_smile: I’m practically a meatatarian anways.

Any other ideas on what I can use to replace Surge post workout? I was thinking rice protein or wheat protein for that, anything ultra hydrolized. I was also thinking a bannana or two for the insulin spike? scratches head not to sure on this one.

Not sure about the protein, you’re on your own there. But you can use maltodextrim or dextrose for the insulin spike.

heyy, there we go… I wonder how functional I can go with my pwo carbs?

Pasturized egg whites could do the trick. other than that bro grab a steak. You might be a hell of a case for using BCAA’s. Slam a good dose of simple carbs and BCAA’s post training them a bit later load the plate and fork,

Phill

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Yes folks, it’s true - I’m allergic to whey and caesin, and this is a fairly recent occurance. (whey moreso than caesin). So basically, milk products are out of the picture. I’m lookin’ at lots of eggs, hydolized wheat protein, and POSSIBLY soy - I’m still debating that one, I’m scared off by all the talk I’ve heard about estrogenic properties, but I’ve yet to see any research on it yet, and I was also wondering if using Rez-V regularly could help abate any potential PROBLEMS of soy. (soy’s cheap and tastes good - other stuff more expensive and tastes awful… you see why I’m leaning in that direction, yes?)

I’m sure that increasing the meat intake in my diet will be necessary as well, obviously - this I have no problem with :slight_smile: I’m practically a meatatarian anways.

Any other ideas on what I can use to replace Surge post workout? I was thinking rice protein or wheat protein for that, anything ultra hydrolized. I was also thinking a bannana or two for the insulin spike? scratches head not to sure on this one.[/quote]

What a bitch! Alergic to Whey!!! Look i don’t know much about these things but what I do know is that you can easily develop (and beat) food allergies. I have thought about this one myself.

From all that I have read it is VITAL to rotate/alternate your food/protein sources. Bodybuilders seem to have a real affinity with one type of potein source and consume this source vigorously such as meat chicken or eggs. The problem is that when the diet is not varied enough the body will naturally begin to develop an alergy to it.

Charles Poliquin wrote that he sends his athleted to get food alergy tests done and most come back with food alergies of eggs, tuna, beef and eggs and MILK products (ALL THE BODYBUILDING STAPLES!!). He recommends to go off of it completely for a while and explore a VARIETY of alternatives.

His athletes must go off of the alergy food for SIX WEEKS and then consume substitute protein during this period but they CANNOT eat the same protein source for 2 days in a row. I think you have to be creative here as he recommends shrimp, scallops, turkey, buffalo and ostrich!! well…it least its different. Use your imagination. for example I’m an AUssie and we can eat Kangaroo as a cheap alternate source.

Ussually the protein alergy is gone after 6weeks and you can re-introduce the protein source into your new VARIED diet. I would not screw around and get tested for food alergies before you reintroduce the whey into your diet as you may plain have a genetic alergy to it…hopefully not.

To be honest I am almost positive that I will be alergic to beef, whey and Cassein. I rely on these sources way too much and do not vary them enough because…i like them. but in the long run I may well be shooting myself in the foot by becoming alergic.

In regards to your fears for Soy, this is what I know. Soy is indeed a cheap and viable protein source. It is rapid absorption, and in some cases may even have some wastage as it is supposedly super rapid (too fast)in absorption.

Yes there is a lot of information about the Estrogenic nature of Soy. In fact soy products are touted as being supportive for females to their homronal health. the idea is based on the fact that Soy has something called Phyto-estrogens. these are weak estrogens contained in the Soy.

There are two schools of thought when it comes to soy.

  1. Soy Raises Estrogen levels
  2. Soy LOWERS Estrogen levels

So if Soy has Phytoestrogens how can it actually be thought to lower Estrogen levels? well the theory goes that these Phytoestrogens are weaker estrogens than what the human body produces. These weaker estrogens bind onto estrogen receptor sites in the body blocking stronger estrogens from locking on, thereby LOWERING the real TOTAL estrogen level in your body. This is the concept as drugs like Nolvodax as estrogen inhibitors. The result is thought to be a relative decrease in total estrogen and therefore an INCREASE in the amount of free flowing testosterone creating a more powerful anabolic environment conducive to muscle growth.

Which theory will you prescribe to? well thats up to you. In my opinion Soy is a good idea for bodybuilders where it is not the sole source of protein. It MUST be combined with multiple whole protein sources and consumed in small quantities. If you consume tons of it like you where probably doing with milk protein to develop an alergy it may simply keep flooding the body with Phytoestrogens. common logic says that even weak estrogens when supplied in sufficeint quantity will raise total estrogen levels.

Mate I hope this has helped as I don’t know how much of this you already knew. I hope for you this alergy was brought about by overconsumption and therefore treatable. Isn’t it amazing that supplement companies can holler on and on about whey and cassein, 2grams per pound of bodyweight, no side-effects to high protein diets and mention NOTHING about food alergies as a byproduct of single source overconsumption…sounds like a side effect to me!!!

Hey Schultz,

Thanks for the great reply, and thanks to everyone else too - indeed, I’m going to have to make up the difference mostly in food, and Schutz, you’re totally right about DEVELOPING food allergies.

I did an elimination diet to see what I was allergic to, and it’s dairy. I seem to be good on the other stuff, but dairy is a problem for me, probably because I used to eat a LOT of cheese and protein powder. I agree, I wish that supp companies would post a warning on protein powders to vary your intake sources, and to rotate every 2 days.

In regards to Soy and phytoestrogens, isn’t Resveratrol a phytoestrogen? Wouldn’t they have similar effects, and wouldn’t taking one earlier in the day help negate the other? The quick absorbtion of Soy is looking REALLY attractive for PWO, BCAA’s are ususally made from milk proteins, so I could be screwed there too - it’s the smaller polypeptides (di and tri-peptides, specifically) as opposed to the bigger chunks of the protein that are really the problem, so BCAA’s are out, I’m afraid.

I’m a total fan of rotating protein sources - in fact, that’s something that I’m goign to be very careful about from now on. Cool stuff that you can get Kangaroo so cheap down there - I can get buffalo meat here, but it’s a bit more pricy than beef.

I love seafood, but every time I eat it I feel guilty for environmental reasons - people really shouldn’t eat so many fish, we’re depleting our fisheries at an usustainable rate. I’ll still eat fish now and then, and chicken, and turkey, and buffalo, and lamb, and venison if I can get my greedy hands on it. :slight_smile:

Who knows… maybe after 4 months off dairy I can come back to it and everything’ll be hunkey-dorey, but then again, it might not. oh well, at least I’ll be used to not having it.

I’m still not totally decided on whether or not to use soy - I’m familiar with the two theories, and the consensus HERE seems to be that soy RAISES estrogen levels, but again, I haven’t seen the studies to back that up.

In fact, I’ve only seen one study on the effects of soy protein intake on sex hormone levels, it was done with rhesus monkeys, and found no change whatsoever. Apparently there are phytoestrogens in soybeans, but not in soy protein isolate - the manufacturers REMOVE them (and sell them as supps for menopoausal women).

Granted, what I’m seeing is that soy isn’t as good a protein supp as caesin or whey, but hey, I can’t eat those.

Waht symptoms would typically indicate that you might have a food allergy?

Just wondering. Thanks.

Well, it can vary greatly from person to person, and even cause multiple problems in a SINGLE individual.

Basicaly, what happens is that the body becomes relativley incapable of digesting a certain di or tri-peptide from a particular protein - these polypeptides float around in our bloodstream willy nilly, unable to be put to any decent use, and end up collecting in different parts of the body, causing issues.

Myself, I had rectal bleeding and AWFUL itching, but no signs of hemorhoids. Within three days of eliminating dairy, my butthole was A-OK.

sorry if that’s TMI, but hey, you asked.

I agree 100% with charles on rotating your protein sources to prevent allergies. I love Whey as well as all of the staples such as beef,fish,chicken and eggs.

One thing I have been doing is rotating my protein sources weekly. One week nothing but fish. Another day nomething but chicken, and so on. I also rotate supplemental protein by using whey,rice protein,pea protein, and hemp protein for a specific length of time on each.

The one thing I keep constant though is my BCAA’s and glucose concoction after each workout. I’ve been doing this for a while now and feel great.

Wow…I am dealing with a very similar situation as you. I went to an allergist and tested the basics (including dairy/whey) and passed all of them. I may play the elimination game that you describe and see if I can figure it out.

[quote]knewsom wrote:
Well, it can vary greatly from person to person, and even cause multiple problems in a SINGLE individual.

Basicaly, what happens is that the body becomes relativley incapable of digesting a certain di or tri-peptide from a particular protein - these polypeptides float around in our bloodstream willy nilly, unable to be put to any decent use, and end up collecting in different parts of the body, causing issues.

Myself, I had rectal bleeding and AWFUL itching, but no signs of hemorhoids. Within three days of eliminating dairy, my butthole was A-OK.

sorry if that’s TMI, but hey, you asked.[/quote]

eghh, sorry to hear that man! When your allergist tested you, he probably only tested for IMMEDIATE food allergies that produce an IGe immune response. An allergy to a specific protein will most likely be a delayed food allergy and only result in an IGg immune response, which most doctor’s don’t test for, and many won’t even if you ASK them to.

I’m lucky, I have a good doctor who knows about this stuff, but it took awhile to find him, that’s fer sure. But even with the IGg blood test, an elimination diet is really the best way to determine if you have a specific allergy.

The way I did it was to eat nothing but the most hypoalergenic foods around for a week - lamb, rice, c carrots and other veggies, fruit except citrus, organic chicken, no beef, nothing you eat more than twice a week. You can’t do it and eat out (well, not ture, you CAN, but it’s nigh on impossible). Google “elimination diet”, and you’ll find various permutations of what I did.

Anyhow, after a week, start adding things back in one group at a time. The first thing I did was have a bigass hot chocolate, a ton of cheese, and a milkshake. Next day, anus on fire. milk = no eaty. If you do the same thing but dont’ have issues with dairy for a couple days, the culprit could be elsewhere, like wheat.

you know… I bet that goat whey would be a good substitute! It’s a different protein!

Yup, that’s exactly it. The allergist met with me in his office and not the hospital and had just the basics. My plan is to cut out all protein powders except for rice protein (supposed to be least allergenic) as I feel that’s most likely the problem.

I tried to do the V-diet a couple of times and by the third or fourth shake in the day I was having serious digestive issues (and I was using MD and not any cheap protien, bad supps, etc.) I tried increasing fiber like crazy but it did not fix the problem.

If this doesn’t pan out, however, I’ll keep working on it and pulling out other foods that may be the cause.

I have a theory that protein powders can be difficult to digest for small portions of the population as they are new (at least in powder form) to humans in the overall scale of evolution. But hell, I’m not a doctor…what do I know.

[quote]knewsom wrote:
eghh, sorry to hear that man! When your allergist tested you, he probably only tested for IMMEDIATE food allergies that produce an IGe immune response. An allergy to a specific protein will most likely be a delayed food allergy and only result in an IGg immune response, which most doctor’s don’t test for, and many won’t even if you ASK them to.

I’m lucky, I have a good doctor who knows about this stuff, but it took awhile to find him, that’s fer sure. But even with the IGg blood test, an elimination diet is really the best way to determine if you have a specific allergy.

The way I did it was to eat nothing but the most hypoalergenic foods around for a week - lamb, rice, c carrots and other veggies, fruit except citrus, organic chicken, no beef, nothing you eat more than twice a week. You can’t do it and eat out (well, not ture, you CAN, but it’s nigh on impossible). Google “elimination diet”, and you’ll find various permutations of what I did.

Anyhow, after a week, start adding things back in one group at a time. The first thing I did was have a bigass hot chocolate, a ton of cheese, and a milkshake. Next day, anus on fire. milk = no eaty. If you do the same thing but dont’ have issues with dairy for a couple days, the culprit could be elsewhere, like wheat. [/quote]

I think it may have more to do with an overconsumption of a particuar food source for an extended period of time. Evolutionarily speaking, we should never be eating the same food day in and day out. In nature, food just isn’t available that readily and consistently. When you’re a hunter-gatherer, you take what you get.

One day, it’s a mastadon. sweet, your tribe eats for a week. Next week, its a herd of bison. Sweet, another week. Next week, its a bigass bear. all the while, there’s honey periodically (but rarely), berries sometimes, mushrooms, nuts, etc. Remember, we INVENTED agracutlre, and that was only 30k years ago… we’ve been hunter gatherers for 4 MILLION YEARS. Seems to me a rotating diet is the way to go.

I’ve also heard that hydrolized proteins in particular contain nasty chemicals, that’s somehting we damned sure didn’t evolve to digest.

It may not be that big of a deal. How do you fair with hydrolyzed whey, ie. Surge? I know people who cannot handle whey isolate or milk products but can use Surge or a homeade malto/dex/hydrolyzed whey equivalent. And you said casein lesso than whey. Can you take Metabolic Drive?

I don’t seee much use for whey. It IS convenient. But I think real food would almost always be preferable aside from the convenience factor. Except for PWO where hydrolyzed whey is excellent. And pre-bed where the slow-digestion of micellar casein is great. But if you can’t use Surge or Metabolic Drive, I’d recommend egg protein and hydrolyzed why post-workout. A protein source you can handle just before bed. And I’m sure you wake up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. So, a serving of BCAAs when you do.

Hydrolized whey actually seems to be the WORST. Less than two hours and my ass is on FIRE. I’m actually thinking hydrolized SOY for my own PWO concoction, goat whey (and cheese) before bed and in the mornings, alternating with egg protein and massive ammounts of good old fashioned MEAT.

Anchovies and canned salmon are going to become a larger part of the diet too. I’ll have to find a local butcher who carries venison.

I have changed doctors and hospitals and so far I am impressed with them. I’m starting at the beginning…sounds like I should ask my doctor for an IGg test as a good starting point.

[quote]knewsom wrote:
eghh, sorry to hear that man! When your allergist tested you, he probably only tested for IMMEDIATE food allergies that produce an IGe immune response. An allergy to a specific protein will most likely be a delayed food allergy and only result in an IGg immune response, which most doctor’s don’t test for, and many won’t even if you ASK them to.

I’m lucky, I have a good doctor who knows about this stuff, but it took awhile to find him, that’s fer sure. But even with the IGg blood test, an elimination diet is really the best way to determine if you have a specific allergy.

The way I did it was to eat nothing but the most hypoalergenic foods around for a week - lamb, rice, c carrots and other veggies, fruit except citrus, organic chicken, no beef, nothing you eat more than twice a week. You can’t do it and eat out (well, not ture, you CAN, but it’s nigh on impossible). Google “elimination diet”, and you’ll find various permutations of what I did.

Anyhow, after a week, start adding things back in one group at a time. The first thing I did was have a bigass hot chocolate, a ton of cheese, and a milkshake. Next day, anus on fire. milk = no eaty. If you do the same thing but dont’ have issues with dairy for a couple days, the culprit could be elsewhere, like wheat. [/quote]

Well looks like I’m running into the same challenge trying to get that blood test. I’ll just have to do my own elimination testing. I’ve only had this problem for less than 2 years, so hopefully it’s something fairly recent and I can figure it out easily enough.

Are you SURE you developed an allergy and didnt just have some problem in the area? I would venture to say 1000’s of people have been on the Velocity Diet, myself included, and I havent read anyone stating claims like this.

I’m not saying no one has, but it seems like LIVING off of whey for 30+ days would put one in a position to develop an allergy.

Well since I have no positive test results in hand, I’m not sure. Even without doing the v-diet, I’ve had a couple protein shakes a day for a couple years now, so the timing of something in the powders not agreeing with me is possible. This thread caught my eye as the symptoms described are exactly the ones I’ve been dealing with. It seems like it would be simple to figure this out…if I cut out the shakes for a week and things are better, than that’s probably the issue. If I have no change, then it is most likely something else.

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Are you SURE you developed an allergy and didnt just have some problem in the area? I would venture to say 1000’s of people have been on the Velocity Diet, myself included, and I havent read anyone stating claims like this.

I’m not saying no one has, but it seems like LIVING off of whey for 30+ days would put one in a position to develop an allergy.[/quote]