T Nation

Where Is the Land of the Free?


All right.

I have been called out, by Headhunter, no less, for spouting "anti-American rhetoric" in bemoaning the dreary state of personal liberty in the United States today.

While my particular beef was with the government in that post, rather than with the nation, I will accept his criticism in the spirit it was given. I am not anti-American by any means, in fact I would love to return to the States if I felt it was a place I'd like to return to. So far I have not been convinced.

Then again, I've been outside the States for a long, long time, and perhaps I am failing to see the forest for the trees... or rather the snags, widow makers and wolf trees that appear in international news.

So enlighten me, T-Patriots. Where, in your experience, is the area of the United States in which a man can be the most free? And understand that this is not a rhetorical question: I really want to know. It could be your home state, or a place you have spent enough time in to understand.

High scores will be awarded to those regions where taxes, crime, population density and government interference is low; where meat is cheap, hunting and fishing are good, personal firearm ownership is expected and encouraged, and everyone generally minds his own goddamn business.

Oh, and I'd appreciate some elaboration in your answers, rather than just names of states and regions: the why as well as the where.

Thanks in advance.



Sounds like you need to come over to Northern Idaho brother.

Taxes are generally low and property rights are respected. I freely open carry my pistol on my hip without a license and don't get openly harassed by the police except for a few notable exceptions. Land is reasonably cheap: my wife's parents bought 25 acres of land touching the national forest for 80 grand. There's tons of trout, salmon, bass, and steelhead fishing. We have an abundance of whitetail, though I have yet to harvest one since I'm a sucky rookie hunter. I'm in Moscow, which is only 20k when college is in session, but the place to be would be 10 and 20 miles north in Troy and Deary with only about 500-1000 people in each city.

So far as like minded people, there is a strong support for Ron Paul, though being Idaho you're dealing with a primary republican state. The exception unfortunately is right here in Moscow, but that's because of the university which breeds democrats like wildfire. Our mayor, Mary Cheney just got spanked for trying to impose a gun ban in public buildings because of it going against the state Constitution.

Besides, I need someone here to run the Palouse Chapter of the Sons of Liberty when I get it up and running. I may find myself in Virginia next Summer if I go back in the Corps after graduation.

Bottom line in all of this though is that you will be freer in America than you are in Japan. I loved my time in Japan, but it certainly isn't Idaho. How are you liking those Japanese gun laws? All this said, Idaho is going to be a great place to be when the SHTF and we find ourselves in AmRev2. America is the last bulwark of freedom; I truly believe that. When it dies here, we're headed back into another dark age. I know it sounds dramatic, but I'm just calling it as I see it. When the time comes, America is going to need her heroes to be here and not off playing grabass somewhere, be it Japan or Iraq.

Oh yeah, and don't sweat HH, JeffR, or Mick. When it becomes obvious they'll pull their heads out of their asses. I think deep down they're alright guys. I spent a few good years where they are right now. Think of what it took to turn Ben Franklin into a patriot. The man had to be dressed down in front of parliament to figure it out. Semper Fi comrade.



Sylvan "Buckskin Bill" Hart prepares to
fire his homemade 3-gauge (!!) musket.

You know, Mike, something told me you were gonna be one of the first people to reply to this thread. And I would have been disappointed if you hadn't said everything you just did. Thanks!

One of my heroes is good old Buckskin Bill, who lived just exactly the way he wanted to for fifty years on the Salmon River, with nobody for miles around to order him not to.

The man ate grizzly bears, mountain lions and elk, which he shot with guns that he made himself, from scratch, like practically everything else he owned. A High-Testosterone, Freedom-Loving Individual if I ever saw one.

Okay, that's one very big vote for Idaho.

Anybody else?


I'll throw in here and say the Texas Panhandle.

I live just south of the canyon system that makes up the Palo Duro Canyon. I am about 75 miles south east of Amarillo.

We have no state income tax, low property taxes, 2nd amendment rights are expected to be celebrated daily. Hunting is excellent with huge mule deer, plentiful pheasant and dove, and all the wild hogs you can shoot. Fishing leaves a little to be desired, as there are not many rivers, or lakes around.

But if you want to be left the hell alone - you can disappear into the canyons, and no one will ever find you. Going into town will start the rumor mill, but that's just life in small towns.


Pennsylvania. Away from the cities in the rural areas. Everyone minds their own business but still have a sense of community. 2nd. ammendment friendly and low property tax.

Close enough to a city if you want to go to one for the cultural stuff. (2hrs. and international airports)





Holy shit. Deja vu.

I said practically the same thing just the other day on another thread. Minus the stuff about the President.

Thanks, Orion.

And you too, RJ and Hedo. The vote stands at one vote each for Northern Idaho, Texas Panhandle, Rural Pennsylvania, and Chinga Tu Madreville, New Mexico.


Wow, and I thought you ignored my post.

What IS freedom? Perhaps, as Orwell says, "Freedom is being able to say that 2 + 2 make 4."

To me, freedom can be defined in the following way: My life belongs to me. My work, my ideas, my property, are MINE. No one may take any of those without adherance to an objective code of justice and if I have violated same.

As I said before, I see no evidence that I am being denied any of those things. True, some of my work is confiscated through taxation. I'd certainly prefer that we finance government through user fees. But that's the 'millenium'. If and when I REALLY DID SEE my government go against my beliefs, I'd be the first to raise one hell of a fight.

Good thread, Varq!


Sounds like the ending to Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.


I think you need to go somewhere where the population density is real low and the state government doesn't impose it's will on every little thing you want to do with your property. That said, it is probably some place out west like Idaho, Wyoming, or Montana. Just be careful of those pesky Canadians trying to steal your liberty by sneaking across the border.


And probably one of the first to be thrown into jail if
your "one hell of a fight" was not properly executed according to the rules/laws your government allowed you
to play by.

Good thread. Everybody likes the state they live in of course. Kinda like your high school, type of car, etc...
If it's yours, it's got to be the best.


You familiar with Claude Dallas?

As far as Wyoming goes, you can check out www.freestatewyoming.com

The guy running that is one Kenneth Royce, aka. author Boston T. Party. While Boston is a pretty squared away guy, the people in the group or more or less bunkertarians which is why the wife and I decided to part ways with them. I'd kind of like to try to fix things before AmRev2 than try to wait for it.



Actually, some of the places I've lived, including the place I currently live, are probably among the least free. And the most blue - take that for what it's worth. It's probably a correlation to population density -- the more people there are in an area, the more power the government seems to have, and to want to execute in terms of everyday decisions.


I'm assuming the place you are currently living is Washington DC, and not Washington state. How ironic that the "Capital of the Free World" should be so filthy, crime-ridden and restrictive. And yeah, Boston Massachusetts has come a long way in the wrong direction since that little Tea Party of '73.

So, where would you go if you felt the Constitution was being affronted too much and too often where you lived?


Your description --

-- sounds a lot like Oklahoma too. Sounds a lot like the majority of America.

Take out large metro areas, and a small handful of tax-happy states, and nearly all other areas of the U.S. would fall into your definition of "free".


Alaska, anyone?


I like turtles


Ah freedom. Too hard to come by nowadays.

Generally freedom is a conservative place to be. Unfortunately there aren't any true conservatives around.

Maybe the term would be libertarian. I am finding myself leaning more toward libertarian ideals. But the Libertarian is a little off the wall for me.

Too often people want to do good. But as the quote goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

So unfortunately, �??for our own good,�?? a lot of rights have been taken away. As it comes about slowly, people don't notice it as much. All they notice, between the Brittany Spears stories, and the latest reality show, is the some good politician wants to give them free health care. Free education.

A story I recently heard was about how a farmer caught some wild pigs. First he started putting out food for the pigs. Then as they got used to the food, and quit paying too much attention, the farmer started building a fence. Once he was done, all the pigs were now fenced in, and he was ready to start slaughtering.

People are too busy looking at what the government gives them to see the fence being built.

Ok, I went off on a tangent. But our freedoms are being eroded, from both sides, and sometimes it gets hard to tell if they are corrupt, or just plain stupid. Although I do think that the people who keep voting in these morons in have got to be some stupid brain dead idiots.

Then again with our twisted education system, and the biased and self centered media, I shouldn't be that surprised. We are teaching people not to be smart, and then supplying them with information that is too often faulty, incorrect, fabricated, or is just a complete lie. When there is some sort of real information put out, there is a political protest against it.

I still think this is a great country, and still prefer to live here then anywhere else. But it is headed in a very bad direction, and it is going to bite us in the ass.


I live in the 3rd highest taxed county in America and the 7th highest property tax county. Where I live (and NY State as a whole [smoking ban, anyone?]) is definitely not the 'most free' or even close to it (NY state is the 2nd highest taxed state to the best of my memory as well).

I'm moving somewhere else as soon as I can :confused:


I was in the DC for a few years, but now I'm in the Seattle area. I'm sure eastern Washington, out by Idaho, is much more free than King County.

As for your question, apparently I'd go to the Seattle area... =-)

But for an improvement, I'm not sure -- probably Texas; Austin or Dallas -- my choices would be a bit limited if I wanted to keep being employed as a corporate attorney.