As is so often the case in these discussions, it depends on where one draws the line for impressive lifting (we had a thread awhile ago about whether most men are genetically capable of a 600-pound deadlift that circled around this same basic topic for a few hundred posts).
Personally, I think BW snatch and 1.5BW clean & jerk are very good for “recreational” lifters. A 185-pound guy snatching 185 pounds or C&J-ing 275 pounds would turn heads almost everywhere except for serious Olympic-lifting gyms, right? I’ve been working out at a CrossFit box for a couple months; the leaderboard indicates that the top lifts at the gym are a 235 snatch and 275 clean & jerk (the one coach has done more than that, but he doesn’t post his lifts on the leaderboard). I know that CF is not solely dedicated to Oly lifting, but they’re probably the largest group in the U.S. that performs Oly lifts with some regularity.
1.5xBW snatch and 1.85xBW clean & jerk would put you on par (strength-wise) with guys qualifying for the CrossFit Games (a 185-pound guy snatching 275 and jerking 335). Personally, I’d say that’s well beyond “good recreational” numbers. Please note that I’m not a diehard CrossFit cheerleader, and those guys have to be decent at a million other things besides Oly lifting, and I understand that they wouldn’t make a dent at lifting nationals. But I still think those are well beyond “good recreational” numbers.
Well, on the bright side… Isn’t it good that some of us have warped perceptions of what’s normal? Nothing like underperforming by your own standards while unknowingly smashing everyone else’s expectations.
Not necessarily disagreeing with this. I am glad that Internet forums and national competitions awaken me to the wider world of strong people out there, so I know that merely being the strongest person in my gym does not mean I am strong by competitive standards.
I currently have a 360 back squat, 300 front squat, and a 525 deadlift at a bodyweight of ~220 pounds. That makes me the equivalent of a “C session” lifter in the powerlifting realm for sure, and my strength would be very average for a powerlifter - while acknowledging that I am probably stronger than >95 percent of people in general and >75 percent of recreational weightlifters (my estimates).
This is all just semantics and fun discussion. I think we all should aim higher (or at least, as high as we’re able to aim within the context of other constraints that life places upon us). I would like to squat 405 and deadlift 600 this year, but only within the confines of an appropriate work/life balance and other things. I’m considering those good-enough-to-shoot-for-and-feel-like-I-accomplished-something numbers.
I think that’s the big thing. I think for most of us that don’t plan on being competitive or going to nationals, having some numbers that would make us feel proud and accomplished is the big driving force.
I’m 5’6 and am 170lbs and I got goals of being able to do the following (for reps):
I know these are not mind blowing numbers. I wouldn’t be competitive in anything. But I feel like for myself I would feel really accomplished that I can do all of that. I think I would love how my body would look.
I’m 6’2" 225 (36 years old) and current numbers as follows:
200x2 OHP
185x3 Power Snatch
395 Back Squat
285 Power Clean
445x5 Dead Lift
Trying to get to 250 snatch and 335 clean. I’m pretty good off the ground and first pull and not very quick under the bar but haven’t worked that very much yet. Experienced using OLY lifts as accessory work for track and field and had full year of 2015 not doing any Olympic lifting due to a ruptured patellar tendon. Was at 210 snatch and 310 clean at 210 body weight pre injury.
Programming using 531 with all lifts as singles with short rest and top set being 1’ of singles. Need some technique work to improve. I’m explosive - 11’ standing long jump and 36"+ vertical and auto times 11.59 100m before injury so believe I have the tools to lift a lot although height is a limiting factor for big numbers I think.
Made progress from 245 to 315 on power clean from 2010-2014 doing mostly singles on clean and squat as my main weightlifting work. The track work and jumping helped a lot.
How much volume do most of you guys do per week total and at what %. I probably do about 50 reps working weight per week over 80% - only a few reps (10) over 88% - and probably 100-150 more reps at 50-75% including warmups and Crossfit workouts.
I would say most lifters in US below national level work up to a highest miss and move on. 10 warmups and 3-5 singles 90% and above. Everyone wants the instant gratification of a make near PR or above. Our sport is very niche and bring in and out lifters fairly quickly. My point is that few go through the needed periodization blocks to really bust through plateaus.
I am trying to adapt LSUS training cycle to fit my schedule and do more 60-80% work with reps above 5. Too much 90-100% is leaving me broken. 35yrs lift as 36.
FYI- 124/153 training PRs… currently more like 120/145
I’ve thought about (once I stall on 531) doing a set up where I work up to a daily max and then hit 20 singles with 80% of daily max. Naturally sets it up as auto regulating. Could also take the singles from 80-81-82 etc. or could progress the density of the singles from 20 minutes to 19 to 18 etc and then bump the weight once I get down to a certain time.
@105. I was on the lighter end of 105 when I was lifting better, but life got the better of me and I am more like 110 right now but will start pushing away the Doritos for next meet.
Singles are more fun but, I couldn’t imagine doing 20 at the same weight. Complexes are a good way to use lower % weight and get all the training out of it…
How far do you think one average person can get with no formal coaching?
I think anyone could possibly get a decent clean and jerk (even if technique is butchered) , but snatch would be way harder. I know a ton of strong guys that can’t even do a full snatch at 135lbs.
Yeah - that’s basically what I do on the Crossfit stuff. 20x1 at 80% I’d have a pretty easy time with. Could probably even get through 20 cleans at 240 in maybe 3 minutes.
Pretty far. Assuming decent strength levels and speed/power - I’d think 150 and 230 with almost no coaching. But not sure what the point would be. If doing poorly, the training effect is less than just doing jump squats or explosive deadlifts with lighter weight.
I think you’ve got to keep into account how badly someone wants it, duh. During the period of time in which I was working my snatch very hard, I was basically doing something related to it every day, be it watching videos, stretching or even practicing with a pvc pipe when I’ve the time.
That got me to a snatch of 77.5kgs at 75kgs in under 2 months. Granted, I do have THE POWER OF YOUTH on my side.
I’m doing Olympic lifts, currently training 5 days a week and following the programming by A. Torokhtiy.
Used to crossfire but stopped after a bad injury (slipped disc) hence no squat snatches or OHS in training.
How is the Oly training affecting your body? I feel most of the time pretty shattered although the weights are still fairly low.
What kind of accessory do you combine your training with?
Clean and jerk is my pain point. I would snatch all day if I had the choice.
Cleans pressure my low back. Jerks hurt… but they hurt because of other lifts.
Overall, 100% Olympic weightlifting with the right percentage of squatting, it’s probably 3 times safer than any other competitive lifting, and 10 time safer than crossfit.
Now don’t get me wrong, pro crossfitters are some bad dudes, but when they ask drug free desk jockeys to deadlift too the puke and then max on on cleans, bulging discs are the norm.