T Nation

Where Have the Good Men Gone?


Article on the pervasiveness of "Prolonged Adolescence" in 20-something males today.


I was thinking about this a few days ago in regards to myself.

My dad grew up during the Depression on a farm, but was just too young to be in WW2 and my mom was almost killed by the Luftwaffe when she was a kid in Glasgow in WW2. She was in an air raid shelter and the one that her family tried to get into just before that got leveled.

I'm 37 and still watch Star Wars about once a year and am reading Isaac Asimov's Foundation series again, first time was in high school. I like Star Trek and have read over 100 Star Trek novels. I have Conan comic books in my home.
What I'm getting at is I don't think my dad would have anything to do with the 'trivial' things he grew up with, like the Flash Gordon serials, but here I am still watching movies from my youth and participating in discussions here on TN about superheroes.
I don't want to make fun of myself and others like me too much, but I'm just saying that it would seem weird for me to see someone from a couple of generations back giving a shit about the stuff from their youth.

Sorry it may not be completely on topic with the article, but it's what I was thinking recently.


Imo, men have gotten weaker, more spoiled(quality of life that is), and lazy. Plain and simple. When I went from the ranch to college after graduation, that hit me like a train. The quality of men is pathetic and will probably continue to get worse. Although its not as bad, women have changed as well. But thats another thread.


You and me are the same age!

I think possibly it's a bit of wealth and privilege and a relaxation of presure to get married and have kids.

I don't think it's just a male thing. Being the same age as you, I play video games love LOLcats and love all sorts of internet stupidity just for fun. I have a group of friends ages ranging from 25 to 46 (mostly male though) and we all have the same juvenile sense of humour, enjoyment of video games and haven't changed much in a decade, except more stupidity...

Even at work, my co-workers and I in that same range of ages wasted many company hours playing office supply dodgeball and dvd cubicle hockey. I think the workplace was much more formal in my parents day.


Guess all you can really do is make sure you set your children up for success, help guide them into the right career. Don't let them wander off into college not knowing what they want out of life. Show them they have to make rationale choices, yeah you want to become a lawyer, but are you really that smart ? Make them get jobs, give them responsibility. Factor in also the absence of fathers in a lot of young men lives.......make sense to me.


I think that is a load of bs. Manual labor and school are very different types of work, but both are work. I feel like some people (like you), seem to look at kids in college as being lazy because they aren't working on a farm or would absolutely dread having to do that. It is true that most people from the cities that tend to be more studious would hate having to do manual labor, but the reverse is also true. Farm boys from the mid west would fucking die if they had to work and study as hard as many of the city boys do.

I always hear people saying that each and every generation is getting more lazy than the last. In reality i just think the type of work that we are doing in this country is changing as technological advancements are made, and people aren't getting lazier, they're just doing DIFFERENT work. The work is different. Not easier, just different.

On a side note, i think the argument could be made that college students now-a-days are working harder than ever. We are basically required to get a masters or phd if we want a decent paying job whereas our parents only needed a bachelors degree. Also, getting into a lot of undergrad and grad programs is getting more and more difficult.

Oh and i have no bias in this argument, seriously. I was more or less a "farm" boy through high school and then turned into a nerdy school boy in college. I have lived both lives. Neither was more difficult for me, just different


I'm only like this until I can afford a piece of land (near the sea) and a boat. Then it's fishing and farming for me.


Where Have the Good Men Gone?....They joined the Marine Corps.


That's BS. There are a bunch of thick headed, arrogant pricks in the marine corps. Not everybody is like that, but i feel that the majority are. There are however some truly incredible men and women that are giving their lives to protect our freedom in the corps. I have infinite respect for those people


What's really bs about his statement is that all of the good men left america 15+ years ago, and thus none were left to join the marine corps.


You are right, I have worked with a bunch when I was in but on the other hand that type of work requires an Alpha Male personnality. In the Marines you can not walk around as a meek or you just wont make it, to be some of the worls finest your are going to have to be a bit arrogant and thick headed. There is no question though after most of them get out they are either standup citizens (good men) or criminals as I have known both.


I could go into that more but Im just going to stick with what I started comment with. Its my opinion.


I know what you mean. Why am I the guy at work that knows about stupid internet memes?!?!!?

Twice in the past year something about LOLcats came up and you should see how hard it is to explain what LOLcats are without getting weird expressions from those you;re explaining to.






Evolution get over it.


Many of the commenters on the WSJ have made the point that if the premise of the article is true then the question should be rephrased Where have the Good Dads Gone? But whatever your view of either one of these is the article is full of stereotypes and opinions, lacking in facts and evidence


You confuse me.


Wow. Looks like someone hit a nerve.

I left school at 15 years old and have been working ever since. I've had mostly physically demanding jobs before going to college at age 19. I didn't find working (desk job) and paying my way through college nearly as hard as being a laborer. I didn't choose my course of study very wisely and dropped out after a years.

I went back to college at age 24 (4 years after dropping out) and was shocked at how easy thing had become, even though I was now studying and working to support a wife and 2 kids. All the 18-19 year olds still complained and acted like the world owed them something for being the "future leaders".


Kind of a sweeping judgement, I'm sure H4M would love to hear all about your knowledge on the USMC probably have a good laugh, I'm sure other guys on here would enjoy your little spiel, as well. Should I go fetch them so you can explain to them why they are a bunch of pricks?