[quote]Professor X wrote:
I’ve pulled all of my hair out.[/quote]
Wait, so, is your avatar picture from when you pulled the last few hairs out? That sounds painful – I’d scream, too.
i was going to hold my tongue on this topic, but then the very next thread i read was this: http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1585690&pageNo=0#1585848
i know everyone has to start somewhere, but it just seems that more and more of these types of newbie threads are dominating the forums. there has to be a way to balance it out a bit more.
When I see a thread where the OP’s goals and interests are clearly not mine, I leave the thread and look for something that matches my interests.
NO ONE says you have to coddle and comfort the newbies and jump on their threads and accept their goals.
NO ONE says you have to give them advice.
NO ONE says you have to pay them any attention.
We have been asked to just stop going out of our way to slam them. When they “get” that the community is into what the online magazine’s articles are about, they’ll adapt or leave.
And even if they outnumber me and my ilk, that doesn’t alter one whit the articles or the store or my goals. I’m within 5 pounds of 200–first time in my life; and that’s right: I’m actually bulking in the summer, not cutting–and no influx of 150-pound Emo kids can change what I intend to do.
[quote]robo1 wrote:
i know everyone has to start somewhere, but it just seems that more and more of these types of newbie threads are dominating the forums. there has to be a way to balance it out a bit more.[/quote]
Someone posted a thread in the Supplements forum asking people to compare and contract Metabolic Drive and Surge. WTF?
When someone said, “Dude, read the articles associated with the products,” the OP got snarky. He, obviously being the CEO of GM, didn’t have time to read those articles. (More oddly, the OP had been registered on T-Mag for almost a year and had posted 150 times!)
I guess it comes down to this: Who are the “problem children”? Is is the people who refuse to do even remedial research before posting really stupid questions, or people who call them out on it?
As a matter of policy, the following would make the forums much cleaner: Any post about creatine, ZMA, surge, protein powder, etc., should be immediately re-directed into the Beginner’s forum. If you don’t know what creatine is, then you are a beginner - plain and simple.
The Beginner’s forum should be 100% flame free and a host for all of the ill-advised questions. If someone wants to ask whether drinking a scoop of protein powder before bedtime will destroy the chisel in his 6, 135 lb., physique, he should have a “safe place” to do so. But the rest of us should have “safe place” where we do not have to be subjected to such nonsense.
Also, there should be a separate forum for discussions of Biotest products. I get that if a newbie posts about creatine as if he’s asking about a cutting-edge product, Biotest wants these posts in: Maybe the dude will buy some Biotest creatine. That’s cool. I would never hate on Biotest for wanting to make money.
So Anyone who wants to ask for the one-thousandth time what ZMA is should post it in the Biotest forum. That way it won’t clutter the Supplements forum and it will also give Biotest people a chance to “sell” their products to the questioner by extolling the merits of their products and explaining what the products do.
Also, someone should send Phill a few cases of Metabolic Drive. The guy has the patience of a Zen master. Have him answer all the basic questions in the Biotest for Beginner forum.
I think making these changes would allow T-Nation to stay true to its hardcore roots while also expanding into the “Abercrombie crowd.”
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
I was going to post this on the thread in the beginners forum where some kid is yelling about everyone hating on him because he thinks Ryan Reynolds has a very aesthetic physique and that people shouldnt be hating on him on a bodybuilding website since “not everyone wants to be 250 lbs of useless mass”. I received a reply from the moderator saying my message had not been posted because it was too inflammatory for the beginners forum.
Here is my post:
"Things like this thread piss people off because it shows where T-Nation is headed:
a website where kids suck each others cocks for being 155 lbs instead of 150 and where being 185 means youre pretty much the authority on gaining. A website where kids argue endlessly over whether or not creatine is a steroid, leg extensions build more mass than squats, and exactly how many situps you have to do to get a six pack. a website where being able to see your abs means so much more than being able to see any other muscles on you body.
there has been an influx of new members here and the maority of them have been immigrants from that other site. That is why this is happening, and that is why people get pissed off when new guys post pictures of Ryan Reynolds talking about how “aesthetic” he is. Ryan Reynolds is not aesthetic. Frank Zane, Dave Henry, Stan Mcquay, and Reg Park are aesthetic.
This is a bodybuilding website. What use is it to build something if its not going to be strong?"
I understand TC doesnt want to scare the newbs off and I agree that some of the bullshit that goes on on this website is too much, but at the same time, I feel that fostering a mediocre mindset on this website is going to lead to the sort of stagnant wasteland that bb.com has become.
This is the problem with a lot of whats going on in our culture lately…mediocrity and laziness have consumed us. We want the best results we can get without having to work for them. We want to take a pill before we go to bed to lose weight and get a six pack while we work at our desks. The 170 lbs six pack physique has become our society’s Greek ideal. And well spend all of the money on earth to achieve that ideal, as long as we dont have to actually expend any effort.
/rant.[/quote]
yeah but if the kids are buying the products pushed by the 185 lb and 155 lb kids, Biotest is happy and your opinions don’t really matter if they are making money.
Biotest is a business and T-Nation is an advertising medium. successful business change with their markets.
[quote]TShaw wrote:
When I see a thread where the OP’s goals and interests are clearly not mine, I leave the thread and look for something that matches my interests.
NO ONE says you have to coddle and comfort the newbies and jump on their threads and accept their goals.
NO ONE says you have to give them advice.
NO ONE says you have to pay them any attention.
We have been asked to just stop going out of our way to slam them. When they “get” that the community is into what the online magazine’s articles are about, they’ll adapt or leave.
And even if they outnumber me and my ilk, that doesn’t alter one whit the articles or the store or my goals. I’m within 5 pounds of 200–first time in my life; and that’s right: I’m actually bulking in the summer, not cutting–and no influx of 150-pound Emo kids can change what I intend to do.[/quote]
I agree with pretty much every word of this post.
[quote]TShaw wrote:
When I see a thread where the OP’s goals and interests are clearly not mine, I leave the thread and look for something that matches my interests.
NO ONE says you have to coddle and comfort the newbies and jump on their threads and accept their goals.
NO ONE says you have to give them advice.
NO ONE says you have to pay them any attention.
We have been asked to just stop going out of our way to slam them. When they “get” that the community is into what the online magazine’s articles are about, they’ll adapt or leave.
And even if they outnumber me and my ilk, that doesn’t alter one whit the articles or the store or my goals. I’m within 5 pounds of 200–first time in my life; and that’s right: I’m actually bulking in the summer, not cutting–and no influx of 150-pound Emo kids can change what I intend to do.[/quote]
When they begin posting outside of their designated forum, then they begin clogging up areas besides for the beginners forum. Have you seen what is happening in the bodybuilding area lately? Its a travesty and having to sort through all of the useless threads in order to find something worth reading or responding to is difficult.
It just creates static.
AA, I understand the sentiment of your post, but the problem is not the people who are dedicated to this, regardless of training age, but rather those who want the quick way out and easy results.
[quote]texasguy wrote:
yeah but if the kids are buying the products pushed by the 185 lb and 155 lb kids, Biotest is happy and your opinions don’t really matter if they are making money.
Biotest is a business and T-Nation is an advertising medium. successful business change with their markets. [/quote]
Successful businesses often do not alienate the clients that made them successful in the first place. Especially when that group is not shrinking and will not leave as long as the product retains its quality. The crowd that they seem to be changing to suit now are those that will not be ordering in the next 6 months, because they have not achieved the instant success that they had hoped for and have given up.
Mostly it’s the pictures - forum boards will always have their share of trolls & losers, stupid topics, n00b questions and silly arguments - but the endless influx of skinny little guys who are falling all over themselves to post bad looking photos…that’s a bit much.
I don’t understand it - post a photo when you have something to show. I don’t understand the need to post these pics - can’t you ask for advice without a picture? Trust me - you’re not a unique snowflake. No one needs to see a pic to give you advice on gaining muscle and/or losing fat.
I personally feel it can be ignored, and the article content of the site is as good as it ever was. It does create a poor atmosphere in a lot of ways though - something to look out for in the future.
The handful of good posters here make the boards - if you drive them away, the site will definitely suffer for it.
Exactly…and there have been several veteran members who have stopped posting here recently…
[quote]SkyNett wrote:
Mostly it’s the pictures - forum boards will always have their share of trolls & losers, stupid topics, n00b questions and silly arguments - but the endless influx of skinny little guys who are falling all over themselves to post bad looking photos…that’s a bit much.
I don’t understand it - post a photo when you have something to show. I don’t understand the need to post these pics - can’t you ask for advice without a picture? Trust me - you’re not a unique snowflake. No one needs to see a pic to give you advice on gaining muscle and/or losing fat.
I personally feel it can be ignored, and the article content of the site is as good as it ever was. It does create a poor atmosphere in a lot of ways though - something to look out for in the future.
The handful of good posters here make the boards - if you drive them away, the site will definitely suffer for it.
[/quote]
Dont worry, I wont leave.
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
texasguy wrote:
yeah but if the kids are buying the products pushed by the 185 lb and 155 lb kids, Biotest is happy and your opinions don’t really matter if they are making money.
Biotest is a business and T-Nation is an advertising medium. successful business change with their markets.
Successful businesses often do not alienate the clients that made them successful in the first place. Especially when that group is not shrinking and will not leave as long as the product retains its quality. The crowd that they seem to be changing to suit now are those that will not be ordering in the next 6 months, because they have not achieved the instant success that they had hoped for and have given up.
[/quote]
they are not alienating you. they are expanding their market share. you are already a loyal customer so they don’t worry about you so much.
it is kind of like buying a cell phone or anything with a contract.
when you first buy a phone, all the companies offer great deals on phones as long as you sign a contract. after that, you spend $300 for a phone because they have you. when your contract is up and you are free to go with who ever you want,they give you special prices again, but only if you resign your contract.
there are no contracts with Biotest, but they have already succussfully marketed their products to you.
you feel they make a superior product, you feel it does what you want and you buy it.
these kids are new and Biotest is after their money too.
it makes sense they spend more time on fresh faces than people who already buy there shit.
and they still give you your forums, your posts, articles you can enjoy etc to keep you interested.
should they be giving you a pacifier and some cheese with your wine too?
I say just flame the shit out of them. It is, after all, the fucking internet… if they really cry about it, they got more problems than just being skinny.
[quote]texasguy wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
texasguy wrote:
yeah but if the kids are buying the products pushed by the 185 lb and 155 lb kids, Biotest is happy and your opinions don’t really matter if they are making money.
Biotest is a business and T-Nation is an advertising medium. successful business change with their markets.
Successful businesses often do not alienate the clients that made them successful in the first place. Especially when that group is not shrinking and will not leave as long as the product retains its quality. The crowd that they seem to be changing to suit now are those that will not be ordering in the next 6 months, because they have not achieved the instant success that they had hoped for and have given up.
they are not alienating you. they are expanding their market share. you are already a loyal customer so they don’t worry about you so much.
it is kind of like buying a cell phone or anything with a contract.
when you first buy a phone, all the companies offer great deals on phones as long as you sign a contract. after that, you spend $300 for a phone because they have you. when your contract is up and you are free to go with who ever you want,they give you special prices again, but only if you resign your contract.
there are no contracts with Biotest, but they have already succussfully marketed their products to you.
you feel they make a superior product, you feel it does what you want and you buy it.
these kids are new and Biotest is after their money too.
it makes sense they spend more time on fresh faces than people who already buy there shit.
and they still give you your forums, your posts, articles you can enjoy etc to keep you interested.
should they be giving you a pacifier and some cheese with your wine too?[/quote]
Tell me where I was whining?
Im pretty sure I was just voicing the concerns that many others have about where this site is headed.
What good is having the forums if they become overrun with bullshit posters and the same endless basic questions?
Testosterone Nation is starting to lose its testosterone. Its turning into a place where people with mediocre goals and mediocre work ethics can be praised for their mediocre progress.
And no, if a cell phone company starts to suck, I take my contract elsewhere. Same with anywhere else I spend my money. If my money is going to someone, I want to ensure that what I get is what I want.
[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
robo1 wrote:
i know everyone has to start somewhere, but it just seems that more and more of these types of newbie threads are dominating the forums. there has to be a way to balance it out a bit more.
Someone posted a thread in the Supplements forum asking people to compare and contract Metabolic Drive and Surge. WTF?
When someone said, “Dude, read the articles associated with the products,” the OP got snarky. He, obviously being the CEO of GM, didn’t have time to read those articles. (More oddly, the OP had been registered on T-Mag for almost a year and had posted 150 times!)
I guess it comes down to this: Who are the “problem children”? Is is the people who refuse to do even remedial research before posting really stupid questions, or people who call them out on it?
As a matter of policy, the following would make the forums much cleaner: Any post about creatine, ZMA, surge, protein powder, etc., should be immediately re-directed into the Beginner’s forum. If you don’t know what creatine is, then you are a beginner - plain and simple.
The Beginner’s forum should be 100% flame free and a host for all of the ill-advised questions. If someone wants to ask whether drinking a scoop of protein powder before bedtime will destroy the chisel in his 6, 135 lb., physique, he should have a “safe place” to do so. But the rest of us should have “safe place” where we do not have to be subjected to such nonsense.
Also, there should be a separate forum for discussions of Biotest products. I get that if a newbie posts about creatine as if he’s asking about a cutting-edge product, Biotest wants these posts in: Maybe the dude will buy some Biotest creatine. That’s cool. I would never hate on Biotest for wanting to make money.
So Anyone who wants to ask for the one-thousandth time what ZMA is should post it in the Biotest forum. That way it won’t clutter the Supplements forum and it will also give Biotest people a chance to “sell” their products to the questioner by extolling the merits of their products and explaining what the products do.
Also, someone should send Phill a few cases of Metabolic Drive. The guy has the patience of a Zen master. Have him answer all the basic questions in the Biotest for Beginner forum.
I think making these changes would allow T-Nation to stay true to its hardcore roots while also expanding into the “Abercrombie crowd.”[/quote]
Being a long time lurker and occasional poster (this is my disclaimer for the amount of posts I have before it comes up…) this post has made the most sense. Every one at some point has been a newbie lifting the iron, whether for bodybuilding or from a strength / sports objective.
Given the quantity and quality of posters, coaches and authors at one site, it would be remiss not to allow them a chance to explore and learn something. While this site is primarily for body building, it is not a pure BB site…just look at the strenth sports section, or the Get a life threads.
Rather, I think the T-Nation philosophy (if you will)has much more to do with intensity towards your goals, whether that is for BB, or PL or MMA, and if that attitude can be trasferred to even a few newbies I’m all for it. Some will be converted, and the ones who don’t have the will or dedication will move to Men’s health / fitness.
[quote]Sliver wrote:
TShaw wrote:
When I see a thread where the OP’s goals and interests are clearly not mine, I leave the thread and look for something that matches my interests.
NO ONE says you have to coddle and comfort the newbies and jump on their threads and accept their goals.
NO ONE says you have to give them advice.
NO ONE says you have to pay them any attention.
We have been asked to just stop going out of our way to slam them. When they “get” that the community is into what the online magazine’s articles are about, they’ll adapt or leave.
And even if they outnumber me and my ilk, that doesn’t alter one whit the articles or the store or my goals. I’m within 5 pounds of 200–first time in my life; and that’s right: I’m actually bulking in the summer, not cutting–and no influx of 150-pound Emo kids can change what I intend to do.
I agree with pretty much every word of this post.[/quote]
2nd that
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
texasguy wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
texasguy wrote:
yeah but if the kids are buying the products pushed by the 185 lb and 155 lb kids, Biotest is happy and your opinions don’t really matter if they are making money.
Biotest is a business and T-Nation is an advertising medium. successful business change with their markets.
Successful businesses often do not alienate the clients that made them successful in the first place. Especially when that group is not shrinking and will not leave as long as the product retains its quality. The crowd that they seem to be changing to suit now are those that will not be ordering in the next 6 months, because they have not achieved the instant success that they had hoped for and have given up.
they are not alienating you. they are expanding their market share. you are already a loyal customer so they don’t worry about you so much.
it is kind of like buying a cell phone or anything with a contract.
when you first buy a phone, all the companies offer great deals on phones as long as you sign a contract. after that, you spend $300 for a phone because they have you. when your contract is up and you are free to go with who ever you want,they give you special prices again, but only if you resign your contract.
there are no contracts with Biotest, but they have already succussfully marketed their products to you.
you feel they make a superior product, you feel it does what you want and you buy it.
these kids are new and Biotest is after their money too.
it makes sense they spend more time on fresh faces than people who already buy there shit.
and they still give you your forums, your posts, articles you can enjoy etc to keep you interested.
should they be giving you a pacifier and some cheese with your wine too?
Tell me where I was whining?
Im pretty sure I was just voicing the concerns that many others have about where this site is headed.
What good is having the forums if they become overrun with bullshit posters and the same endless basic questions?
Testosterone Nation is starting to lose its testosterone. Its turning into a place where people with mediocre goals and mediocre work ethics can be praised for their mediocre progress.
And no, if a cell phone company starts to suck, I take my contract elsewhere. Same with anywhere else I spend my money. If my money is going to someone, I want to ensure that what I get is what I want.[/quote]
and that cell phone company charges you an assload to get out of your contract.
they also probably don’t care if you leave if they are signing up 2 more people for every one that leaves.
where are you whining? in this thread silly!!
i can understand ya’lls frustration at the noobs (why is internet lingo so fucking gay) but you don’t have to be a baby.
i’m new to this site, but not to weight training.
some threads seem ridiculous to me, but i remember how ignorant i was when i started lifting at first.
i’m greatful for the people who helped me out with supplement information, the people who spent time correcting my form in the gym be they friends or even the random stranger.
heck, i remember a guy, in his 40’s and a definate t guy. he was doing sumo dead lifts, was on the gyms board as a record holder for dead lifts, bench press and shoulder press and always seemed really scary, especially to a then 16 year old bean pole who hadn’t filled out his new adult height.
i was doing tricep extensions after benching and apparantly doing them incorrectly but had no idea.
he saw me and came over, corrected my form and i noticed definate positive differences after that.
it’s been almost ten years and i remember that like a school girl remembers her first flower.
the point is that everyone starts some where. when you take on a new task, what ever it may be, you are not good at it. it takes time, practice, help from others and work to master it.
so maybe you are a real t guy. think of lifting as a trade.
you are a master weight trainer.
newbs are apprentaces and the in betweens are journey men.
play your role and teach the students. they won’t carry on in testosterone honor if you just whine about their threads, questions, posts etc.
it comes from inexperience, not a malicious attempt at a take over or abercrombie-a-nization.
and if you just can’t handle it, don’t read their threads. it’s that simple.
This is legit our version of the illegal immigration crisis with the newbies…scary shit.
[quote]detazathoth wrote:
This is legit our version of the illegal immigration crisis with the newbies…scary shit.[/quote]
and what happens to illegal immigrants? they work shitty jobs. they keep labor costs low which makes product cost low. they bring third world outsourcing home which also reduces shippings costs.
they also introduced what is quite possibly the worlds most delicious food.
some complications of immigration are bad, but some good comes out of new ideas, new people and new experiences too.
many of america’s greatest were immigrants. america was built on immigration. the strong immigrants made it what it is, the weak were the chaffe who did the menial shit.
you never know. some of these “newbs” may fall in love with training, learn a shit ton over time and school you on something one day.
you were born a crying baby with out a clue too.
Amsterdam Animal…would you rather see him complain about his abs weighing 134lbs? the point is the guy seem to be one of the few people who get it…so no need to flame him noob or not. Besides who give s a damn about his weight…when you focus on one aspect (weight) and not take into account other aspects i.e. strength…it makes you 1 dimensional.
Myself at 181 I’m willing to bet I’m just as strong maybe stronger than half the people here who weigh over 200lbs…no I’m not talking about that pound for pound bull crap. Too many people here place emphasis on just weight and not strength…so now you have a lot people walking around 200, 200+ with nothing to show for it in the strength department.
Weight means nothing if you don’t have the strength to back it …its akin to driving a corvette with a 4 cylinder engine. my point here is 2 fold
- If noob’s mind is in the right place …i.e. the guy who wrote the post don’t flame him… encourage him/her
2)just because a guy doesn’t weigh 200 lbs doesn’t mean he’s any less knowledgeable
[quote]Amsterdam Animal wrote:
Lol, sorry my man but this makes me laugh. I like your attitude and you make some good points but for now I think you should work on putting in your time into this great iron game. Do you really expect people to take you serious? You have been lifting for 2 years and weigh all of 175.
Everyone has to start somewhere and I was once 175 but I did not get so worked up when I really had nothing to show for whatsoever. So proof me wrong and show you are different from these same posers you talk about. Put in your time, pay your dues and show us some progress. Good luck and train hard.
A
fightingtiger wrote:
I was going to post this on the thread in the beginners forum where some kid is yelling about everyone hating on him because he thinks Ryan Reynolds has a very aesthetic physique and that people shouldnt be hating on him on a bodybuilding website since “not everyone wants to be 250 lbs of useless mass”. I received a reply from the moderator saying my message had not been posted because it was too inflammatory for the beginners forum.
Here is my post:
"Things like this thread piss people off because it shows where T-Nation is headed:
a website where kids suck each others cocks for being 155 lbs instead of 150 and where being 185 means youre pretty much the authority on gaining. A website where kids argue endlessly over whether or not creatine is a steroid, leg extensions build more mass than squats, and exactly how many situps you have to do to get a six pack. a website where being able to see your abs means so much more than being able to see any other muscles on you body.
there has been an influx of new members here and the maority of them have been immigrants from that other site. That is why this is happening, and that is why people get pissed off when new guys post pictures of Ryan Reynolds talking about how “aesthetic” he is. Ryan Reynolds is not aesthetic. Frank Zane, Dave Henry, Stan Mcquay, and Reg Park are aesthetic.
This is a bodybuilding website. What use is it to build something if its not going to be strong?"
I understand TC doesnt want to scare the newbs off and I agree that some of the bullshit that goes on on this website is too much, but at the same time, I feel that fostering a mediocre mindset on this website is going to lead to the sort of stagnant wasteland that bb.com has become.
This is the problem with a lot of whats going on in our culture lately…mediocrity and laziness have consumed us. We want the best results we can get without having to work for them. We want to take a pill before we go to bed to lose weight and get a six pack while we work at our desks. The 170 lbs six pack physique has become our society’s Greek ideal. And well spend all of the money on earth to achieve that ideal, as long as we dont have to actually expend any effort.
/rant.
[/quote]