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Wher Did I Go Wrong With This Cycle?

Ok so I’ll start from the beginning!
My first cycle and only cycle so far consisted of Sustanon 250,Deca 200, Dianabol 10 mg per pill.
13 week piramid
Sust. Deca Dianabol
week1 250ml 200ml 30mg
week2 250 200 30
week3 500 400 30
week4 500 400 30
week5 500 400 30
week6 500 600 30
week7 500 600 30
week8 500 600 30
week9 500 400 30
week10 500 200 30
week11 500 hcg
week12 250 hcg
week13 250

and I was now taking Clomide and porivion for like 2 weeks I forgot how much but it was low doses.

Ok before anyone tells me I’m a fucking Idiot yes I got it and I’m now paying the price ok. This was my first go at all this and I failed so now I’m here asking for help because after my so called PCT I developed GYNO, lumps under nipple, puffy, sore all of it.

Its been about a month with nothing to treat it and its going to be longer till I can get something because |I’m deployed to Iraq and we can’t get shit out here but in the mail!

My real big question is how long do I have before it can’t be treated right with letro or something. If I can get clomide or nolvadex will it help till I get something like letro? I have about 3 more months here in this fucking country before I go home could I last with out serious damage?

Anyone have any Ideas insight or advice? Please if you want to write something stupid go elswhere and do it I’m just looking for help not to be ridiculed!!
Thanks alot Guys!

Well lets first start by all the things you did wrong. It would be much eaiser to say what you did right because it was basically nothing.

  1. Do not pyramid the dose.
  2. Do not run d bol for 10 weeks.
  3. If you wish to run hcg run throughout the cycle rather than attempt to use it in pct.
  4. Do some research on what is suggest for test vs deca ratio. Never run deca higher than the test.
  5. Do not start a cycle without everthing in place-AIs, Serms, pct properlly laid out.
  6. Proviron is not something you typically see laid out in pct.

Absolutly take some nolva right away if thats all you can get your hands on. Some letro would be far more preferable. You possibly can still do something about the gyno that you have developed at this stage in the game.

first off, why the fuck did you wait a month to do something about this?

x2 on lillguy’s advice…take the nolva right away at 40mg/d (this will just shrink it, it won’t get rid of it) and see if you can get your hands on some letro…then run the letro at 2.5mg/d for a week and then sllloooowwwwly taper down over the next few weeks…your libido will go to crap, your lipids will suck, your joints will hurt and you’ll prob feel like shit cause of the low estrogen but you may still have a chance of reversing things.

next time be prepared

Ok well I just ordered some shit from A-G Guys
Liquid Nolva and some liquid Letro
Has anyone experienced these products of theres? Will it do the trick for me if it’s not to late? Or does anyone have anyother places where I can get real shit to get these fucking lumps to go away?

O and does anyone have any dosages I should stick to with these liquide bottles?
G9ot one bottle of each!
Thanks

There should be a graduated stopper in each bottle to measure with. You can just extract the desired amount calculated by the concentration (mg/ml) into a teaspoon and swig it down.

The doses FuriousGeorge quoted a couple of posts above are fine.

I would frontload the Nolva. That is: use a higher initial dose (1st dose only) to get blood level up quicker. This is especially warranted in your case. Try 140mg Nolva on day 1, followed by 40mg/d. Once the gyno recedes, you can reduce to 20mg/d. Typically 2 weeks of 40mg/d followed by 2 weeks of 20mg/d.

As for the letro 2.5mg/d is already high (again warranted in your case), so I wouldn’t go much higher for frontload. Taper slowly as Furious suggested (possibly cutting dose by 0.5mg/d every few days) and when the gyno recedes, you can aim for 0.3 mg/d as a maintanence dose to keep E2 at bay and maximise free test even when off cycle.

Good luck…

DH, I think his nolva just comes in a bottle, w/o any means of measurement. Not that he should have mentioned a supplier, though.

Drugstores sell 5 or 10ml medicine droppers. I go up to the pharmacist though and ask for something more accurate in the smaller ranges (so that I can measure out meds for my dogs), and they gladly hand out free syringes.

Yes, syringes are great for precision oral dose measurements.

Ok thanks alot guys, Sorry for mentioning the name up there, wont happen again! I hope this shit works!!!

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
There should be a graduated stopper in each bottle to measure with. You can just extract the desired amount calculated by the concentration (mg/ml) into a teaspoon and swig it down.

The doses FuriousGeorge quoted a couple of posts above are fine.

I would frontload the Nolva. That is: use a higher initial dose (1st dose only) to get blood level up quicker. This is especially warranted in your case. Try 140mg Nolva on day 1, followed by 40mg/d. Once the gyno recedes, you can reduce to 20mg/d. Typically 2 weeks of 40mg/d followed by 2 weeks of 20mg/d.

As for the letro 2.5mg/d is already high (again warranted in your case), so I wouldn’t go much higher for frontload. Taper slowly as Furious suggested (possibly cutting dose by 0.5mg/d every few days) and when the gyno recedes, you can aim for 0.3 mg/d as a maintanence dose to keep E2 at bay and maximise free test even when off cycle.

Good luck…[/quote]

I understand the idea of frontloading any drug to achieve peak levels but do you know the toxicicity of nolvadex? Do you know the level of Estrogen it would cause at that dose?

Dynamo Hum i have mentioned to you before that while you seem reasonably educated on steroid basics, you do tend to just repeat others advice and just because it works for one thing doesnt mean it does for another. Sure you’d get peak levels but at what cost? Test is the frontload drug as it is injected and bypasses the liver causing little toxicicity. If dianabol had a 36hr half life would you frontload this?

Chill please.

I hear you Brook. I was going by Bill’s frequent mention that frontloading Tamoxifen Citrate at 140mg on Day1 and following by doses of 20mg/d for 4 weeks (or a lttle more or less depending on when libido and testicle size return to normal indicating a strong recovery) is the way to go with a Nolva based SERM PCT. I hadn’t looked at toxicity, but assume Bill took that into consideration.

This is a recent supporting post by Bill (Proper Adex Use & Alternatives thread March 1, 2009 - http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/adex_anastrozole_question?pageNo=1#2843982)

"What you are doing with the tamoxifen is correct: if you’ve been at it at quite a while then levels by now should be OK, but if you just started, actually to get blood levels commensurate with a dosing of 20 mg/day, you need about 120 or 140 mg on the first day. (For the same reason as given above regarding Arimidex but even more so.)

So if one hasn’t been taking a SERM and suffers onset of gyno, the answer is not to dick around with letting levels slowly creep up, but immediately taking a dose such as that and then maintaining for example 20 mg/day or 40 for a while if paranoid."

Ok so let me get this straight when I get my Nolvadex and my letro, I need to start with a front load with the nolvadex. Then after the nolvadex is started should I kick in the letro? Or should I even bother with it and just run the Nolvadex to see what happends and save the letro for a rainy day? Thank guys for the advice!

Bill, there seems to be some differing of opinions here, maybe you could weigh in?

Yeah, that post which Dynamo Hum quoted was Bill’s response to me from a gyno question. I took it as: frontload the Nolva immediately, and start the Letro immediately (actually, I was on adex at the time, but switched to Letro). I guess Letro/Nolva can reverse gyno in some cases (I’ve seen a ton of ‘bro stories’ about this), but mine was genuine tissue growth, I suppose, because it hasn’t reversed :frowning: I went up to 2.5mg/day Letro, and it wasn’t that fun (joints did start to hurt a bit, didn’t feel good emotionally, and lost some interest in sex until very recently). It’s not really that noticeable (except to me), so surgery isn’t necessary. I hope it works out better for you, Reith.

Yes I hope it works better for me too! I want to thank you all for the opinions and guidence you have given me, I am now smarter in my pursuit to get big!LOL Please anyone who has anything to tell me that can help do so, I’ll keep this thread updated on my gyno status so you guys can see what happends. Again Thanks
Reith

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
I hear you Brook. I was going by Bill’s frequent mention that frontloading Tamoxifen Citrate at 140mg on Day1 and following by doses of 20mg/d for 4 weeks (or a lttle more or less depending on when libido and testicle size return to normal indicating a strong recovery) is the way to go with a Nolva based SERM PCT. I hadn’t looked at toxicity, but assume Bill took that into consideration.

This is a recent supporting post by Bill (Proper Adex Use & Alternatives thread March 1, 2009 - http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/adex_anastrozole_question?pageNo=1#2843982)

"What you are doing with the tamoxifen is correct: if you’ve been at it at quite a while then levels by now should be OK, but if you just started, actually to get blood levels commensurate with a dosing of 20 mg/day, you need about 120 or 140 mg on the first day. (For the same reason as given above regarding Arimidex but even more so.)

So if one hasn’t been taking a SERM and suffers onset of gyno, the answer is not to dick around with letting levels slowly creep up, but immediately taking a dose such as that and then maintaining for example 20 mg/day or 40 for a while if paranoid."[/quote]

Well it isnt a drug i would want to take at such high doses… however reading over my info on how it has nasty sides they are mostly linked to length of time taken rather than level of dose and 140mg is only the peak dose - no more.

I stand corrected on that point…

:wink:

I wouldn’t bother with nolva at this point, as at least in my experience the best you can hope for with nolva is halting the progression and possibly shrinking the lump to a small degree. Letro protocol ASAP.

Others have mentioned how to go about it. 2.5 mg/day until recession of the lump/growth/puffiness…and then taper off slowly. You’re libido will likely go to shit,but that’s the price of a gyno protocol.

If you can’t handle your libido dissappearing, then run an HRT protocol during your gyno reversal run, and pop cialis. Even with those countermeasures you still may be in shit state libido wise, and as mentioned your joints will likely ache…but again thats the price.

keep in mind that you cannot remove the gyno without surgery…once the glands develop they are there unless removed.

You can however limit and control the size to a point where it is bareable, and if lucky, not even noticeable. You’ll need to be prepared to control flare ups on any subsequent cycles, so run an AI from day 1 here on out.