So I get confusing info on this. I take 0.3ml twice a week…we’d and Sunday. My estrogen is always high but the provider wants to avoid an AI. Other than sensitive nipples, don’t know that anything is bothering me….no gyno. Worry about it?
I would not.
No, I wouldn’t worry about it.
Keep an eye on your PSA. An increase of ~ 0.1-0.2ng/ml is broadly accepted when you begin TRT but you’d want it to stabilise after that. A similar annual increase is not good.
Thanks for reply. I have heard that injecting smaller amounts more often may bring down some. Have you heard anything like this?
When you have symptoms and certain lab work being off like prostate.
When I was on daily injections, I was able to get away with almost a 30% less T and able to achieve similar Total T and Free T levels.
Only my E2 levels were drastically different, 28 versus 49 pg/mL. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out the less frequent dosing cause more aromatization.
Has this ever actually been demonstrated? We even have guys like Dexter saying he had higher E2 with ED dosing.
You would have to pay attention and learn pharmacokinetics to understand why what you are saying is absolute nonsense. You are setting dudes back big time spouting this stuff.
Learn AUC and induction time between T peak and E2 peak. Tell us, is aromatization first order or MM kinetics with respect to T concentration? Why did you observe the TT/fT/E2 behavior you mention as you changed the injection frequency? Tell me someone has been paying attention.
I went from an EOD protocol (20/80 mg weekly) and got 451 ng/dL, E2 at 49. Then I switched to a daily 7mg protocol (49mg weekly) and got 442 ng/dL and E2 at 28 pg/mL.
There have been guys who do get lower E2 injecting more frequently even at the the same dosages.
How can pharmacokinetics explain these lab results?
Good question. I doubt it. I’ve seen guys move to daily dosing at a fraction (even as little as half) of the total weekly dose utilized previously and E2 almost doubled. I’ve also seen hematocrit increase with daily dosing. Usually, any change is as insignificant as it is unpredictable.
Patients see these stories on the internet and want to try different dosing schedules. For the most part, it is harmless and it can be easily changed or corrected if it doesn’t work out.
There are some on the internet, probably well meaning, that make the mistake of applying their own unique circumstance and results to everyone else. Unsuspecting patients read this stuff. I’ll usually go along with it, as they need to work this out in their own mind.
Good for you as that was your goal. The problem is this does not work for most, or even many.
There have been guys who got higher E2 injecting more frequently even at lower doses.
I actually wouldn’t mind if we make a sticky “TRT Myths that never been proven concrete” thread.
We can start with:
Low SHBG guys need to absolutely do frequent injections. (ED-EOD)
The more frequent injections the better feeling. (More than 1QW or Twice a week)
More frequent injections lower E2.
As long as you keep raising your T you are fine to just keep raising E2.
There will be a “E2 rebound” implying the levels would somehow go up fast and shoot past what your E2 would of been max.
I would also add some AI stuff but I know we aren’t ready for that yet.
About 70% bs to be generous. Might as well have a mood ring or magic 8 ball.
This is really dependent on timing, isn’t it? Yeah peak e2 is lower but trough may be higher. Average level over the week would be pretty similar and still dose dependent, right?
Well for what it is worth, I just got fresh labs back today. Total T is 1190 and estrogen came in at 70. I think both are too high for my comfort zone. I started Ed this journey 9 weeks ago at total T 531 and estrogen below 15. I was always thinking 800 range for total T.
Vince on Excelmale was having to get phlebotomize on a regular basis, until he swtiched to a daily protocol.
I think it highly depends upon the individual, because I to have seen some guys who just can’t inject any more frequently than 1-2x weekly, or else their hematocrit skyrockets.
I think it’s the same with estrogen, it’s highly dependent upon the individual which direction it will go.
Which was my point. Many times, experts on the internet come across as though their solution is the answer for everyone.
These guys you have “seen”? Would it be more accurate to say, “I have read other posts on the internet.”?
If your goal is to hit certain numbers, it should be easy to reach.
Many guys feel good at this level. Those guys are usually starting from lower levels though. Generally, I would say guys starting at 530 will feel better over 1000.
Good luck sorting it out.
Not that I’ll understand it but could you give me an idiots guide to this please?