T Nation

When to Start PCT


#1

how long should i wait before i start taking clomid and hcg from my last injection of test enathe and deca.ps
can anyone pm me and legid online sources...thank you


#2

You shouldn't take HCG with your PCT. It is suppressive. Whoever designed that into your plan is wrong. It's real benefit is being used DURING your cycle to prevent atrophy.

You should stop Deca one week before your last Test E shot, and you should wait 2 weeks after that last shot. That's the general consensus.


#3

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#4

to be clear i just have to take clomid?


#5

Some people just take Clomid. They dose high at the beginning and taper down to 50mg/d. I follow a protocol outlined by Pheedno. Read the article by him below. Don't take notice of the spelling of a few words..lol

My post cycle therapy is a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration; with the primary being phased out in extended protocol. With the addition of an AI, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in SHBG, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line
at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled(to an extent). Below you will find my suggested bare minimum, as well as a sample of an extended protocol. Extended PCT protcol is cycle length dependant so the below is not the standard for all cycles

PCT for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva

Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex

Now, IMO clomid is selective to the suprapituitary, while Nolva is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotphin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

  1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
    occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
  2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex

Arimidex(or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT, since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis.