T Nation

When to Reassess 1RM on Sheiko?

Planning on starting Sheiko 29 for the first time. I plan on going 29, 37, 30, 32. My main question is how often do you reassess your one rep max. Do I do the entire 4 months before I go for another pr and start a cycle over again.

Thanks.

Id wait until all the way through. You’ll accumulate a lot of volume by the time you hit 32. Especially if you aren’t used to high frequency training.

32 allows for a new 1RM. One of the days is actually like a meet day - which imo is kinda like an assessment of where you are. I’d base it off of that. Wednesday of week 4 is the max day.

Sheiko is a lot of volume, not necessarily high frequency. The sessions are very long if you follow them exactly. Just make sure to calculate your training maxes 5-10% below your actual or you may not be able to hang w/ the program.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:
32 allows for a new 1RM. One of the days is actually like a meet day - which imo is kinda like an assessment of where you are. I’d base it off of that. Wednesday of week 4 is the max day.

Sheiko is a lot of volume, not necessarily high frequency. The sessions are very long if you follow them exactly. Just make sure to calculate your training maxes 5-10% below your actual or you may not be able to hang w/ the program.

[/quote]

I disagree with lowering the training maxes especially on the bench press. Most who run 29 will increase the bench training max not decrease it… and pause all your bench reps.

I have trained in a similar style to how Sheiko trained his athletes for a long time now. The real value of a training program like this is the phenomenal quantity of practice. The whole idea of being strong is really just being efficient and technically proficient at 3 things. Thus, for a beginner the value in sheiko is in training with ideal form.

Whether or not you are straining hard is not neccessary at the start - just make sure your lifts are executed properly. Just because it is a 50% warmup weight does not give you an excuse to not setup as hard as you can and execute with ideal form.

With this in mind, you can always start with a 5% reduction (I agree that the bench is in general too easy so maybe no reduction) and just progress slowly. Film yourself and evaluate.

With regards to testing, this comes with experience. A 100% test should NEVER happen in the gym. No point in maxing anywhere but on the platform. For a beginner, testing after the 4 months should be plenty. If you feel particularily antsy then doing maybe 2 singles at 90-92% somewhere in the middle is also acceptable but if form breaks down then it’s too heavy.

1 Like

[quote]supercf wrote:
Planning on starting Sheiko 29 for the first time. I plan on going 29, 37, 30, 32. My main question is how often do you reassess your one rep max. Do I do the entire 4 months before I go for another pr and start a cycle over again.

Thanks. [/quote]

Mark Bell, who knows a lot more about training than pretty much anyone on here, has stated clearly to run Sheiko 5-10% below your actual max. Not theoretical max, actual 1RM.

Having run it myself, you will find those workouts pretty grueling. Sheiko is about volume and intensity control. Remember, one block builds on another so you need to program your training max accordingly. The volume gets pretty ramped up as the blocks go on and no doubt in my mind YOU WILL BE GLAD you lowered your training max 5-10%.

Sheiko 32 has a 95% and 105% day in that block.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]supercf wrote:
Planning on starting Sheiko 29 for the first time. I plan on going 29, 37, 30, 32. My main question is how often do you reassess your one rep max. Do I do the entire 4 months before I go for another pr and start a cycle over again.

Thanks. [/quote]

Mark Bell, who knows a lot more about training than pretty much anyone on here, has stated clearly to run Sheiko 5-10% below your actual max. Not theoretical max, actual 1RM.

Having run it myself, you will find those workouts pretty grueling. Sheiko is about volume and intensity control. Remember, one block builds on another so you need to program your training max accordingly. The volume gets pretty ramped up as the blocks go on and no doubt in my mind YOU WILL BE GLAD you lowered your training max 5-10%.

Sheiko 32 has a 95% and 105% day in that block.
[/quote]

I thought Mark Bell was a Westside guy? When did he run Sheiko?

There’s no need to lower your maxes and doing so on the bench would be a mistake – the weights will be far too light. I’ve run 29, 37, 30 and 32 a number of times, all with real, competition maxes (except the bench, which I increased) and have been fine each time.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]supercf wrote:
Planning on starting Sheiko 29 for the first time. I plan on going 29, 37, 30, 32. My main question is how often do you reassess your one rep max. Do I do the entire 4 months before I go for another pr and start a cycle over again.

Thanks. [/quote]

Mark Bell, who knows a lot more about training than pretty much anyone on here, has stated clearly to run Sheiko 5-10% below your actual max. Not theoretical max, actual 1RM.

Having run it myself, you will find those workouts pretty grueling. Sheiko is about volume and intensity control. Remember, one block builds on another so you need to program your training max accordingly. The volume gets pretty ramped up as the blocks go on and no doubt in my mind YOU WILL BE GLAD you lowered your training max 5-10%.

Sheiko 32 has a 95% and 105% day in that block.
[/quote]

First off, don’t say ‘run sheiko’ - there is no such thing as a sheiko program… He was (and sort of still is) a bloody coach and the stupid numbered ‘programs’ are just examples of a month training plan he wrote for one athlete for one month…

Second, Mark Bell is an awesome guy with tons of knowledge but to be fair I don’t believe he nor any of the people he lifts with train in this manner.

Also, for the record if you have crappy work capacity then yes this style of training will best you up for a bit before you start adapting and making fantastic progress (tons of powerlifters certainly do indeed have awful work capacity). However, I myself and others I know (all of which wilks 500+ in IPF and are lifetime drug-free) would find that following ‘sheiko 29’ with actual maxes; let alone reduced maxes, would be essentially time off. Please don’t make obtuse blanket statements without justification.

[quote]arramzy wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]supercf wrote:
Planning on starting Sheiko 29 for the first time. I plan on going 29, 37, 30, 32. My main question is how often do you reassess your one rep max. Do I do the entire 4 months before I go for another pr and start a cycle over again.

Thanks. [/quote]

Mark Bell, who knows a lot more about training than pretty much anyone on here, has stated clearly to run Sheiko 5-10% below your actual max. Not theoretical max, actual 1RM.

Having run it myself, you will find those workouts pretty grueling. Sheiko is about volume and intensity control. Remember, one block builds on another so you need to program your training max accordingly. The volume gets pretty ramped up as the blocks go on and no doubt in my mind YOU WILL BE GLAD you lowered your training max 5-10%.

Sheiko 32 has a 95% and 105% day in that block.
[/quote]

First off, don’t say ‘run sheiko’ - there is no such thing as a sheiko program… He was (and sort of still is) a bloody coach and the stupid numbered ‘programs’ are just examples of a month training plan he wrote for one athlete for one month…

Second, Mark Bell is an awesome guy with tons of knowledge but to be fair I don’t believe he nor any of the people he lifts with train in this manner.

Also, for the record if you have crappy work capacity then yes this style of training will best you up for a bit before you start adapting and making fantastic progress (tons of powerlifters certainly do indeed have awful work capacity). However, I myself and others I know (all of which wilks 500+ in IPF and are lifetime drug-free) would find that following ‘sheiko 29’ with actual maxes; let alone reduced maxes, would be essentially time off. Please don’t make obtuse blanket statements without justification.[/quote]
Are you keeping a log anywhere anymore? Always enjoyed reading your training

adamramzy-traininglog.blogspot.ca/

I’m logging here man. Glad to hear you enjoy following.

[quote]arramzy wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]supercf wrote:
Planning on starting Sheiko 29 for the first time. I plan on going 29, 37, 30, 32. My main question is how often do you reassess your one rep max. Do I do the entire 4 months before I go for another pr and start a cycle over again.

Thanks. [/quote]

Mark Bell, who knows a lot more about training than pretty much anyone on here, has stated clearly to run Sheiko 5-10% below your actual max. Not theoretical max, actual 1RM.

Having run it myself, you will find those workouts pretty grueling. Sheiko is about volume and intensity control. Remember, one block builds on another so you need to program your training max accordingly. The volume gets pretty ramped up as the blocks go on and no doubt in my mind YOU WILL BE GLAD you lowered your training max 5-10%.

Sheiko 32 has a 95% and 105% day in that block.
[/quote]

First off, don’t say ‘run sheiko’ - there is no such thing as a sheiko program… He was (and sort of still is) a bloody coach and the stupid numbered ‘programs’ are just examples of a month training plan he wrote for one athlete for one month…

Second, Mark Bell is an awesome guy with tons of knowledge but to be fair I don’t believe he nor any of the people he lifts with train in this manner.

Also, for the record if you have crappy work capacity then yes this style of training will best you up for a bit before you start adapting and making fantastic progress (tons of powerlifters certainly do indeed have awful work capacity). However, I myself and others I know (all of which wilks 500+ in IPF and are lifetime drug-free) would find that following ‘sheiko 29’ with actual maxes; let alone reduced maxes, would be essentially time off. Please don’t make obtuse blanket statements without justification.[/quote]

He does give examples of generic beginner, intermediate and advanced prep and competition routines in his book. A Russian lifter friend of mine translated the intermediate and advanced routines for me. If I remember correctly, the intermediate prep routine he gave as a more generic routine corresponded to numbered program 37 and the intermediate comp routine corresponded to 32.

[quote]arramzy wrote:

First off, don’t say ‘run sheiko’ - there is no such thing as a sheiko program… He was (and sort of still is) a bloody coach and the stupid numbered ‘programs’ are just examples of a month training plan he wrote for one athlete for one month…
[/quote]

Ramzy, what are the basic guiding principles you use to map out your own one-month training plans using this style of training? When I look at individual workouts in the numbered spreadsheet Sheiko plans or on Dave Bates’ versions of this style of training, it is pretty clear to me what is supposed to be accomplished for a particular single workout session (a particular volume, lift variation selection, balancing volume between different lifts in the same workout so massive squat volume day doesn’t also have massive bench volume, etc), but I have a hard time seeing what is supposed to be accomplished with the changes in the programming from workout-to-workout and from week-to-week throughout a month in Sheiko’s approaches. I.e. it is obvious that volume, lift variations, and accessories (and to a lesser extent, intensity) change or rotate throughout the month, but I haven’t been able to identify how volume in particular is logically ordered and part of a progression plan. It is different than classical powerlifting programming (e.g. Coan style), different than other approaches based on Prilepin’s table (e.g. moving through set/rep schemes from higher volume to lower and lower intensity to higher), and different than other forms of monthly periodization (e.g. blocks for hypertrophy, strength, and peaking). Can you illuminate us on the logic of Sheiko’s approaches to programming?

[quote]grappling_hook wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:

First off, don’t say ‘run sheiko’ - there is no such thing as a sheiko program… He was (and sort of still is) a bloody coach and the stupid numbered ‘programs’ are just examples of a month training plan he wrote for one athlete for one month…
[/quote]

Ramzy, what are the basic guiding principles you use to map out your own one-month training plans using this style of training? When I look at individual workouts in the numbered spreadsheet Sheiko plans or on Dave Bates’ versions of this style of training, it is pretty clear to me what is supposed to be accomplished for a particular single workout session (a particular volume, lift variation selection, balancing volume between different lifts in the same workout so massive squat volume day doesn’t also have massive bench volume, etc), but I have a hard time seeing what is supposed to be accomplished with the changes in the programming from workout-to-workout and from week-to-week throughout a month in Sheiko’s approaches. I.e. it is obvious that volume, lift variations, and accessories (and to a lesser extent, intensity) change or rotate throughout the month, but I haven’t been able to identify how volume in particular is logically ordered and part of a progression plan. It is different than classical powerlifting programming (e.g. Coan style), different than other approaches based on Prilepin’s table (e.g. moving through set/rep schemes from higher volume to lower and lower intensity to higher), and different than other forms of monthly periodization (e.g. blocks for hypertrophy, strength, and peaking). Can you illuminate us on the logic of Sheiko’s approaches to programming?[/quote]

First off, I hope this wasn’t a sarcastic request… Second, I don’t pronounce to be an expert on Sheiko’s approaches but I just like to stress that these examples aren’t meant to be followed like a generic program. I will share some of what I have discovered from training in such a style.

First, the cycling of volume and intensity seems to follow some generic trends - During weeks 1-3 volume mounts then drops during week 4. During weeks 2-3 (mostly 3) there is an increase in the intensity of lifts.

This generic trend is the main cycle that exists in this programming. Now, the degree of fluctuations perhaps should be individualized. For example, an athlete can request increased weight and assuming proper technical performance it can be allowed. This may perhaps increase training stress during weeks 1-3 and there may be a more significant decrease in volume in week 4. Conversely, commonly new athletes can make sudden and rapid increases in strength which may encourage a continuation of load increase across a one month cycle right into the following cycle.

Regarding month to month progression, this is where it becomes more challenging. To my knowledge, it seems that the principle is that one never tests other than in contest and thus one can never reset training maxes until a competition with an improved result. I think that this works great once you are quite advanced and a 20lb squat PR from a 4 month cycle would be an outstanding result. For someone who is squatting 300lb as a 93kg lifter, progression should hopefully be more significant and thus perhaps regular filming and evaluation of changes in RPE could help allow understanding of improved technical profficiency and strength and thus allow progressive increases of a truly theoretical training max.

The biggest important way in which one should not follow the programs directly is in the accessory movements. This becomes particularily relevent to the deadlift and to an equipped lifter. For example, an equipped sumo deadlifter that is very strong off the floor may not really need to do raw deficit deadlifts. Further, an equipped bencher that is very weak at lockout may prefer the add chains or board work rather than performing long pause bench. Further, a beginner may benefit most from doing pure competition lifts to develop proper motor patterns and technical profficiency before attempting to address weaknesses.

I hope this has been helpful.

PS: You seem to be curious about more microcycling within the week. This is something that I personally feel isn’t THAT important. Assuming you perform the lifts in ideal form and with reasonable volume, the rest is not as important. Certainly cycling and progressing becomes important but for any given week we might need to adapt. For example, it is very acceptable to be fatigued on one workout and decrease all loads by 5-10% to allow quality technical performance. Similarly, it is acceptable to introduce periods (whether a workout or a long term continuation) of elevated intensity when abilities permit.

I know this is quite vague but I prefer to not make any blanket statements that fail to address the endless factors that address one’s ability to perform in the gym and to progress as an athlete.

Thanks for the reply, it was a sincere request. Your answer makes sense, although a huge part of it appears to be “it depends on the specific goals of the specific lifter.” For example, the generic trends you mention of ramping volume from weeks 1-3 and then tapering in week 4 applies some of the time to some of the lifts, but in many others, it doesn’t. As one specific, the standard #29 has relatively low squat volume on week 1, then high squat volume week 2, then moderate volume weeks 3 and 4. The same spreadsheet has deadlift volume steadily tapering down from weeks 1 through 4, and on bench, it has with relatively even low volume across weeks 1-3 then very high volume in week 4. The other numbered programs seem similarly all over the place when it comes to tonnage from week-to-week and exercise-to-exercise.

I suppose the thing that holds them all together is the high number of low-rep sets with moderate intensity to achieve high relative volume with perfect form and high bar speed throughout the cycle, without over-reaching too far on any one lift at any one time, depending on the tolerances of a specific lifter at a particular point in their training. It is much more of a thinking-man’s approach than many internet forum thread seem to indicate.

[quote]arramzy wrote:
First off, don’t say ‘run sheiko’ - there is no such thing as a sheiko program… He was (and sort of still is) a bloody coach and the stupid numbered ‘programs’ are just examples of a month training plan he wrote for one athlete for one month…

Second, Mark Bell is an awesome guy with tons of knowledge but to be fair I don’t believe he nor any of the people he lifts with train in this manner.

Also, for the record if you have crappy work capacity then yes this style of training will best you up for a bit before you start adapting and making fantastic progress (tons of powerlifters certainly do indeed have awful work capacity). However, I myself and others I know (all of which wilks 500+ in IPF and are lifetime drug-free) would find that following ‘sheiko 29’ with actual maxes; let alone reduced maxes, would be essentially time off. Please don’t make obtuse blanket statements without justification.[/quote]

First - It’s good to know you can shed some light on the subject. There’s no such thing as Sheiko programming?

Second - I never said Mark Bell trains his guys using Sheiko, I simply stated Mark Bell suggest using 5-10% lower in one of his videos when he was asked about Sheiko. What’d he say at 1:08?

Third - your statements are pretty much the ramblings of a sarcastic asshole. The OP asked a simple question. Who gives a fuck if you think Sheiko is a poor excuse of a program or that it really doesn’t exist as set numbers or whatever the fuck it is you’re trying to tell of us “newbies” who apparently don’t know shit. Michael Keck ran Sheiko so apparently he’s a dumb fuck too who was sponsored by EliteFTS.com.

Why not just let the OP run the program and learn what works for him and what doesn’t? There’s always something from some “set” program that a lifter can learn about himself. The OP has one post so he’s probably relatively new to powerlifting. Sheiko is a good program to teach volume and practice on the main lifts and emphasizes technique.

For all those out there who actually wanna train Sheiko, here’s a great template of all the programs including master of sport and competition phases for raw and single ply.

http://www.dynamophilie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Sheiko.xls

What you should input for your maxes really depends on the program and your experience.

I agree if doing 29 even with actual maxes (instead of inflated) would be too light. I love mark bell but don’t care what he says about that. I’ve done 29 four times and know what it’s like.

I tried 31 with a little inflation and actually had to tune down my squat after a couple workouts. For 31/30 using your actual max or slightly higher for the bench would fit. the takeaway: DONT UNDERESTIMATE HIGHER VOLUME AND INTENSITY…even if the intensity just tends to be 5% higher.

If you’re set on doing 29/37/30/32 I wouldn’t worry about testing your maxes cause 30 has you do 90% I believe, and 32 has the 105% days…

If gets too easy after 29 bump the numbers slightly for 37. Be weary of bumping for 30 though, the volume is much higher.

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]supercf wrote:
Planning on starting Sheiko 29 for the first time. I plan on going 29, 37, 30, 32. My main question is how often do you reassess your one rep max. Do I do the entire 4 months before I go for another pr and start a cycle over again.

Thanks. [/quote]

Mark Bell, who knows a lot more about training than pretty much anyone on here, has stated clearly to run Sheiko 5-10% below your actual max. Not theoretical max, actual 1RM.

Having run it myself, you will find those workouts pretty grueling. Sheiko is about volume and intensity control. Remember, one block builds on another so you need to program your training max accordingly. The volume gets pretty ramped up as the blocks go on and no doubt in my mind YOU WILL BE GLAD you lowered your training max 5-10%.

Sheiko 32 has a 95% and 105% day in that block.
[/quote]

It’s cool that Mark said that, plenty of others have as well.

Eric Talmant on the other hand, the main guy in the group of Americans that translated Sheiko’s work into english, pretty much the north american authority on Sheiko recommends using your actual maxes. 100% and killing the crap out of your GPP work for the templates to work.

And as Aramzy stated, each of those templates were written for individual lifters so technically the “Sheiko” excel sheets you see online are just examples of what he would have certain lifters needing work in certain areas run.

[quote]Achilles of war wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]supercf wrote:
Planning on starting Sheiko 29 for the first time. I plan on going 29, 37, 30, 32. My main question is how often do you reassess your one rep max. Do I do the entire 4 months before I go for another pr and start a cycle over again.

Thanks. [/quote]

Mark Bell, who knows a lot more about training than pretty much anyone on here, has stated clearly to run Sheiko 5-10% below your actual max. Not theoretical max, actual 1RM.

Having run it myself, you will find those workouts pretty grueling. Sheiko is about volume and intensity control. Remember, one block builds on another so you need to program your training max accordingly. The volume gets pretty ramped up as the blocks go on and no doubt in my mind YOU WILL BE GLAD you lowered your training max 5-10%.

Sheiko 32 has a 95% and 105% day in that block.
[/quote]

It’s cool that Mark said that, plenty of others have as well.

Eric Talmant on the other hand, the main guy in the group of Americans that translated Sheiko’s work into english, pretty much the north american authority on Sheiko recommends using your actual maxes. 100% and killing the crap out of your GPP work for the templates to work.

And as Aramzy stated, each of those templates were written for individual lifters so technically the “Sheiko” excel sheets you see online are just examples of what he would have certain lifters needing work in certain areas run.
[/quote]
do you keep a log online?

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

[quote]Achilles of war wrote:

[quote]osu122975 wrote:

[quote]supercf wrote:
Planning on starting Sheiko 29 for the first time. I plan on going 29, 37, 30, 32. My main question is how often do you reassess your one rep max. Do I do the entire 4 months before I go for another pr and start a cycle over again.

Thanks. [/quote]

Mark Bell, who knows a lot more about training than pretty much anyone on here, has stated clearly to run Sheiko 5-10% below your actual max. Not theoretical max, actual 1RM.

Having run it myself, you will find those workouts pretty grueling. Sheiko is about volume and intensity control. Remember, one block builds on another so you need to program your training max accordingly. The volume gets pretty ramped up as the blocks go on and no doubt in my mind YOU WILL BE GLAD you lowered your training max 5-10%.

Sheiko 32 has a 95% and 105% day in that block.
[/quote]

It’s cool that Mark said that, plenty of others have as well.

Eric Talmant on the other hand, the main guy in the group of Americans that translated Sheiko’s work into english, pretty much the north american authority on Sheiko recommends using your actual maxes. 100% and killing the crap out of your GPP work for the templates to work.

And as Aramzy stated, each of those templates were written for individual lifters so technically the “Sheiko” excel sheets you see online are just examples of what he would have certain lifters needing work in certain areas run.
[/quote]
do you keep a log online?[/quote]

Right now I do not, this was actually one of my first posts online for quite some time. I used to log on here regularly though.