When to Quit a Program?

I believe so. Ive always been a form junky. Funny enough, my deadlifting form and bench form was taken from Mark Rippitoe. My squat form is based of various indepth tutorials from max axita and chad w smith from juggernaut. In regards to westside, i have tried numerous conjugate programs before. I made great gains on some but did poor on others.

That sounds ok.

The most important thing to remember, regardless of the weight you are using in a lift, is completing the appropriate percentage of repetitions you are able to perform in a set relative to the maximum amount of repetitions you are able to perform in that set. According to the 80/90 Principle derived from the AIM System from Corsetterfitness, one should strive to consistently complete at least 80% of the total repetitions they are able to perform in sets using 60-100% of your 1RM, and at least 90% of the total repetitions one is able to perform in a set at percentages less than 60% of 1RM. A major reason for failure using any program is not performing the proper minimum percentage of reps one is able to perform in a set relative to the maximum amount of repetitions one is able to perform in a set. One should be aware of and be able to compare the relative benefits of a set where you are performing 5 out of a possible 7 reps, 8 out of a possible 12 reps, 3 out of a possible 5 reps and so forth. Using the AIM System from CorsetterFITT allows one to do that. One can apply the Accumulated Intensity Measuring System (AIM) to all other programs, follow the recommended percentages of 1RM to be used by your program, and fine tune your repetition scheme using AIM so that you are consistently working to the appropriate limits of your capabilities.

When I was young, (I am now 44) the first major program I used was a modified version of the Bulgarian Power Burst put out by Leo Costa. He had ads in all of the major bodybuilding magazines back in the day (late 80s, early 90s). That was first experience with two a days, and it worked fantastic. I put on about 15 pounds of muscle the summer between my junior year and senior year. Spring of senior year, I followed the Cybergenics program for 6 weeks. It was actually an 8 week program, but I dropped out after six. Again, two a days with double drop sets for every exercise. An absolute killer. The diet program was brutal, less than 100 carbs 3 days in a row, the third, fourth, and fifth day slightly more and then repeat the cycle. Consumed tons of protein, at least 2g per kilo bodyweight. Read all of the bodybuilding mags back then, all of them all the time. Favorite was Muscle Mag International. Learned the routines by heart, and settled into 2 years after high school from the ages of 19-21 of twice a day, 5x a week workouts. Ate lots of protein and grew like a weed. Problem was, when I decided to go back to college to play football (DII, running back), I realized I had been in some ways doing it all wrong (in some ways). Was strictly training bodybuilding style, got massive and loved it, but the results did not transfer well to the football field. Got slower, much more mechanical in movements, lost athleticism. (Of course I did absolutely no sprint training, plyometrics, speed drills to prepare) After about 6 weeks with the program, I severely tore my rotator cuff playing a sandlot football game, and was done. Literally. Totally depressed. Had surgery. Couldn’t bench for three or four months, quit the fottball team, and stopped training completely. Lost at least 25 pounds. Was totally out of shape, tried to get back into training and tore my TVA while holding my breath doing reverse leg curls on a bench. And then that was it. Gave up lifting, and training in general for almost 10 years. Told myself it took to much time and effort to maintain your shape, once you got it, the hard work wasn’t worth it, etc. About ten years ago, I started to get back into training again. No bodybuilding or powerlifting, but what some people call “sport performance”. Taking the things you do well and training in such a way that you can do them better. I tell guys now that I do “barfight training”. Lol. It sort of is true. Though it pretty much is old school football training, I no longer play football. But I still feel like a PLAYER. And where I live (somewhere in Germany, with some tensions between different religious groups) you always have young guys wanting to prove how “tough” they are. So you got to be ready. Mix in some jujitsu, and with explosive training you have a fighters chance to survive (forget about where our political leaders are taking us. Survival is out of our control). Anyway, just a little (or alot) background on who I am and where I come from. My training as of day is very basic. No more 10 sessions a week, 12 sets a training session. Simply 5-6 sets of my favorite exercises, twice a week. Except squats which is every 6 to 8 days due to recovery issues, which are exascerbated by meniscus problems in my left knee, intense programming (weights between 350-450 pounds, hitting at least 80% of all total available repetitions), and my age. The older you get, the harder it is to recover. I love the challenge of balancing the work/recovery equation and I have never used a PED in my life. How can we truly know what types of programs are best when the work/recovery ratios are so skewed by so many guys (especially in the public eye) having wild success training this way and that when they are using PEDs which artificially allow someone to cycle through the work/recovery/adaption phase quicker? No wonder the general public continuously wonders what they are doing wrong! I believe the two MOST important aspects to any program are simple. Provide enough work close enough to your physical limitations to stimulate adaption and provide for adequate recovery. Period.

That makes a lot of sense. No wonder there are no good Russian lifters, they don’t push close enough to failure.

I am triggered

Go take a pill

Thanks Chris. Basically, you are just following the Overload Principle, which is the Golden Rule of training. What I have discovered is that by consistently hitting at least 80% of weights at the heavier weights (@ 60% of 1RM or higher) and hitting around 90% or more at lighter weights, (50% or lower of 1RM), I am able to improve my repetition output through a wide range of 1RM percentages. Over time this leads to a better 15RM, 12 RM, 10RM, 8RM, 5RM, 3RM and 1RM and anything in between. I have found that by improving my 6RM for example, will almost automatically boost the weight I can use in a 5RM. What I do is “condition” at certain specific weights, following this 80/90 rule for a period of time, and my RMs improve at those weights as well as improving the weight I can use in a RM test at a slightly higher weight. It is like a dominoe effect.

Sounds interesting. How is it relevant to powerlifting?

Well think about it. The more you push yourself towards your maximum physical limitations, barring overtraining, the greater your chance to cause the body to adapt. What will this adaption be? It depends on how light or heavy the weights you use. Generally speaking, the guy working consistently closer to his max physical capabilities on a regular basis has the best chance for consistent improvement. Your basic physical capabilities in a set are defined by two things. How much weight can you use in a set and how many repetitions you can possibly get in that set. Once you hit failure, you have hit one of your maximum physical capabilites at that weight.The caveat becomes, what percent of your 1RM is that weight and then, how do quantify it all.

Didn’t answer my question.

I’ll rephrase it. How do you apply this to powerlifting?

Now does that mean you should go out and just perform one rep maxes all day long? Should Usain Bolt just train by doing full-out balls to the wall sprints every time he trains? Of course not. The best athletes always mix blocks of conditioning with blocks of all out effort. Every program out there has some type of conditioning built into it, whether they call it “conditioning” or not. When I want to improve my 1RM in an exercise (as I always do), I use fairly traditional methods: Five, Six sets, ranging from 65-80% of my 1RM nintey-five percent of the time. I know my repetition PRs at all of the standard weights I use and I work to minimum specified percentages of those maxes, depending on how heavy the weight is. If the PRs are set correctly, I usually need at least two to three session to surpass them, depending on the exercise. But I always improve. 10 rep maxes become 12 rep maxes, 8s become 10s, 5s become 7s, 3s become 5s, and so forth and so on.

I am sorry, I thought that I did Jbackos.

If you say so.

By the way,

  1. How many top powerlifters has this method produced?
  2. How does it build a maximum single lift?

I’m curious because if it turns out that Westside doesn’t work for me I might want to try it. Just looking to learn.

There is some truth to what you are saying if you are training for hypertrophy. Mike Israetel posted this on Facebook yesterday: “In order to be most effective, all hypertrophy exercises need to be overloaded. This firstly means that they should be done within 4 reps of failure in most cases.” It’s along the same lines of what you are saying and you could take the same approach for powerlifting, but there are lots of lifters (Russians in particular) that do many low rep sets and stay far from failure, like 8 sets of 2 with 80% for example. A large part of the reasoning behind that has to do with perfecting technique, when you approach failure and especially when you do a lot of reps in a set your technique has a tendency to break down. Also, high rep sets teach you to conserve energy for the following reps rather than putting maximum force into each one. On a maximal lift you don’t try to conserve energy, you want to apply as much force as possible into the bar.

Jbackos. Most champions regardless of their sport are made because they pushed harder and they trained smarter than their peers. The champions in any sport are the ones getting up at 4AM to training, weighing out their meals and puking in the corner. Before there were high tech gear and training methods, there was still greatness.They certainly didn’t need my theory of programming I have briefly outlined. That being said, the principles of any great training program are the same. Smartly and consistently challenging your absolute physical limititations. As far as to how many top powerlifters I have personally trained using this method, even though your question seems disingenuine, I will send you a couple of my own squat videos featuring my 1RM as well as my 15RM.

Most major power training methods can point to elite lifters who trained using those methods, whether that method is The Cube, Westside, Juggernaut, Linear, etc. I researched the method you are presenting here and there seems to be no credible proof that this method created any elite lifters.

Exactly what I thought - another method being marketed for a sport by someone who has no familiarity with the sport they are trying to benefit.

You’re on the wrong forum.

BTW I’ll send you my email address when you can total elite using those methods. At that point I’ll be truly curious. Right now though, thanks for the laughs.

1 Like

You’ve got balls calling anyone disingenuous. Check your e-mail because earlier today I sent you a note about your unwanted self-promotion.

You can upload your videos to Youtube and post them if you’ve got them. No need to send anyone anything.

Actually, Jback, I have laid out the principles behind the theory of my training method and have offered it for free to anyone has wanted one. I am pretty sure everyone on this discussion panel can make their own decisions as to whether or not it has merit.

You’re a fraud. Go away.

Keep self promoting. Maybe the site will do us all a favor and ban your ass.

1 Like