T Nation

When to End Bulk?

I posted this in the bodybuilding forum rather than beginners cause I wanted some experienced advice. I’m currently 6’2 216. I started a year and a half ago at 139. I’d post more info but a how I got there and my current pics are in my log now. Ill post a link . Also idk my bf%. Also should I maintain my bulk weight for a bit before I cut?

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/bulkNcut#myLogs

Log link. Thanks for help

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/bulkNcut#myLogs

Log link. Thanks for help [/quote]

When I follow the link it indicates the HUB is set to private?

Post your pics, the hub is set to private.

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
I posted this in the bodybuilding forum rather than beginners cause I wanted some experienced advice. I’m currently 6’2 216. I started a year and a half ago at 139. I’d post more info but a how I got there and my current pics are in my log now. Ill post a link . Also idk my bf%. Also should I maintain my bulk weight for a bit before I cut? [/quote]

In general, you should be not just holding a new heavier weight for a while, but most newbs need to just realize you will have to spend a good 3-4 years on size first if your goal is to really push your limits.

Pictures will help, but again, they only show how you look right now. Many posters will tell everyone to cut first unless they are damn near contest ready…and I think that will cause there to be a whole lot more smaller people than big ones in the long run.

Hub should now be able to view. Thanks for taking the time guys. X I was hoping you would comment on this and add you point of view. I remember you tearing me apart when I first came on this site and to be honest I was pissed. Then I realized you were right, and I have been following your approach to bulking (atleas what I interpreted it as).

So many guys in my gym are bodybuilders and years ahead of me, but call a bulk a 6 week stretch where they eat a tiny it more and only gain 2lbs. They keep telling me to cut and say you should always be able to see your abs. I’ve taken the opposite approach and id love to get everyone’s opinion. I could post a before pic of me if I can find one, but I don’t think it’s necessary. I was 6’2 139, I looked like I was starving to death

Dude, if that’s you, you seem to be doing fine. Is that last picture the most recent?

Sounds like you’ve got some dummies in your gym. Some people end up maintaining their abs when adding muscle, some don’t. If you’re not content with your muscular progress at this point, I see no reason to cut yet. I think my opinion on this in general is similar to X. Building your muscular base to the point you want to end up at should take priority over intermittent cuts. You don’t want to hinder your muscular gains, especially when you’re young. You certainly don’t look fat right now anyway. You should change your name to BulkNCutEventuallyButNotYetBecauseINeedToBulkForAtLeastAnotherYear.

Yeah thats me just this past week. They’re all from this past week. Yeah I mean its hard to argue my point against theirs cause they look much more impressive than me. I do look kinda fat in the hip and lower ab area and I don’t like the kinda looseness thats starting to build up but as long as you guys don’t think its too out of control I’m good.

Like with food in my stomach I look pretty bloated and fat, just after the gym with a pump I look huge (atleast for me). Any tips to continue bulking while minimizing fat gain? I’ve been doing about a lb a week, is this too much at once? Also any guidelines for macros? I’ve been doing about 200g protein, 140g fat, and 500g cars every day. I do eat like 300 calories less on non training days. I really appreciate the input. Other opinions from other people would be great too just to get a broader perspective. I’ve got some more questions but they are generally geared more towards my overall training so I might throw them up in a different thread.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Many posters will tell everyone to cut first unless they are damn near contest ready…and I think that will cause there to be a whole lot more smaller people than big ones in the long run.[/quote]

Amen!

you’re looking good OP. I’m the same height and bulked way up from 150 in the past year. I only started cutting once I went past 220.

You can definitely keep going. I think there’s nothing wrong with dieting for a week or so to keep your fat a little lower, but long unnecessary diets waste a lot of time IMO.

[quote]bulkNcut wrote:
Yeah thats me just this past week. They’re all from this past week. Yeah I mean its hard to argue my point against theirs cause they look much more impressive than me. I do look kinda fat in the hip and lower ab area and I don’t like the kinda looseness thats starting to build up but as long as you guys don’t think its too out of control I’m good. Like with food in my stomach I look pretty bloated and fat, just after the gym with a pump I look huge (atleast for me). Any tips to continue bulking while minimizing fat gain? I’ve been doing about a lb a week, is this too much at once? Also any guidelines for macros? I’ve been doing about 200g protein, 140g fat, and 500g cars every day. I do eat like 300 calories less on non training days. I really appreciate the input. Other opinions from other people would be great too just to get a broader perspective. I’ve got some more questions but they are generally geared more towards my overall training so I might throw them up in a different thread. [/quote]

I don’t think anyone is advocating that you ‘force’ the scale weight up. You are far from ‘fatass’ and the extra weight you are carrying is adequate to support some serious training. Now it is time to get as strong as possible within a given rep range. If you feel that your waistline is getting away from you reduce your starches by 50grams a day for a month and re-evaluate. Where does the reduction in calories come from on the non-training days?

@Blue Collar- unfortunately it seems the reduction in calories on non training days comes from mostly protein, some carbs. I didn’t realize that until I just looked at my log. Obviously a glaring problem right there. My biggest probelm as of late, and maybe you guys can help, is that I want both size and strength.

My question is can I run 5/3/1 and still continue to gain muscle mass while primarily getting stronger? I have been doing my own modified version of 5/3/1 (so I shouldn’t even call it 5/3/1) with way less leg volume so way more upper body volume than usual. Will I lose this upper body mass if I start doing more leg work by following 5/3/1 (results in less upper volume). I want to be big like a bodybuilder, but strong as hell like a powerlifter. I know It’s not possible to achieve both, but will I sacrafice anything by lowering my overall volume for each muscle group and focusing on getting stronger? I just love both styles of training, and combining them has been something I really enjoyed.

All the pictures in my hub are essentially the results of 5/3/1. Until the last month (none of the pictures are that recent) I hadn’t done a bodybuilding-oriented program in the last 6 years. best numbers last year were 305 Bench, 335 Squat, 485 DL, 195 strict press. I was 175-180 at 5’10 in most of those pics.

The assistance work I did was always either Big But Boring, or I just skipped it.

Thanks flipcollar thats great to know. On the boring but big assistance work did you not go for extra reps on the 5/3/1 sets?

So basically swithching from a high volume program to a lower volume program shouldn’t cause you to lose mass? That’s something I’ve always been curious about

when you start to jiggle brushing your teeth.

You’re 19 years old. If you’re lifting weights and eating enough, you’re not going to lose mass on any program. You can do just about anything in the gym and see results.

I believe intensity is generally more important than volume. If you have awesome intensity, you’ll do well no matter what. That being said, if you’re doing boring but big with the 5/3/1 template, you’re doing 8 sets on the main exercise of the day, 60ish reps total. That’s a pretty decent amount of volume, right?

On the 5/3/1 sets, you still go for the extra reps as recommended. Do you have the e-book? It explains this.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
You’re 19 years old. If you’re lifting weights and eating enough, you’re not going to lose mass on any program. You can do just about anything in the gym and see results.

I believe intensity is generally more important than volume. If you have awesome intensity, you’ll do well no matter what. That being said, if you’re doing boring but big with the 5/3/1 template, you’re doing 8 sets on the main exercise of the day, 60ish reps total. That’s a pretty decent amount of volume, right?

On the 5/3/1 sets, you still go for the extra reps as recommended. Do you have the e-book? It explains this.[/quote]

Boring but big, you do NOT go for extra reps on your main exercise of the day, just prescribed reps.

Dammit Chobbs, YOU did not read the e book. I’ve got the pdf in front of me right now. You’re referencing an article posted on this site that is NOT the boring but big template. quoted from wendler:

“Assistance Work #1: Boring But Big This is probably the most popular assistance work to accompany this program, and it?s really very simple. After you perform the sets and reps of the program, you simply follow it up with the same exercise for 5 sets of 10 reps.”

This does NOT say to skip the extra reps. It says to perform the sets and reps of the program. The program dictates that you go for the extra reps.