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When to Eat Carbs for Size?


#1

Ok 'im not concerned about gaining fat, what meals should i eat carbs for maximal gains?

keep in mind that i workout everyday but sundays and wednesdays. Currently i'm eating more carbs on lunch and dinner, the other meals are basically protein sources.

If anyone knows a diet plan that suits good for me, please share the topic. Thanks, sorry for any misunderstandings.

EDIT: what i'm concerned is the insulin spikes...
EDIT 2: I do know that after training it's good to have an insulin spike... What i dont know is what are the other good times to have it, all day long just seems to be wrong....


#2

If you're not concerned about gaining fat....all of them.


#3

Yeah, sure... But how about the insulin spikes? My body should get insulin resistent if i eat carbs all day long, or am i wrong? That's my concern.


#4

http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_carb_cycling_codex

Read this article, tells you how to bul up on a carb cycle to avoid gaining to much fat. In short think 6 meals a day, 3 first with carbs and proteins, 3 last with fat and proteins. So for example breakfast: carbs, pre workout carbs, post workout carbs, 1 hour 30 minutes later another carb meal. Rest of the day go proteins and fat.


#5

This thread is full of misunderstanding and horrible information.

1) Eating carbs at night isn't going to make you any fatter than eating that same number of carbs earlier in the day. If you didn't eat those carbs earlier in the day, then your body is just going to replace what it burned in their absence earlier the day.

2) Splitting meals into p+f and p+c is a waste of time and based on flawed understanding of physiology. Even Berardi (who came up with it in the first place) doesn't do that anymore and admits he was wrong about it.

3) If you're insulin resistant to begin with, eat fewer carbs overall. Lifting does wonders for insulin resistance, as does not being fat. If you're fat and not lifting, then you shouldn't be "eating for size" to begin with. Eating reasonable amounts of carbs throughout the day (being mindful of total caloric intake) is not going to make you insulin resistant, ESPECIALLY if you're lifting.


#6

ok, i've read and liked it... only one question... can i eat some fat with the carb meals??


#7

1.5g of protein x bw

just add calories until you are gaining weight at a reasonable pace

just add calories until you are gaining weight at a reasonable pace

just add calories until you are gaining weight at a reasonable pace


#8

Adding fats in the same meal as the carbohydrates won't kill you. You already said you didn't care much about gaining fat, so just eat everything.


#9

Don't worry about it to much just make sure you limit carbs before bed.


#10

Pointless advice. See my post above.


#11

...I limit carbs before bed because I find they give me energy and I have trouble falling asleep not so much getting fat.


#12

That makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying.


#13

Is this true? I still stick to either P+C or P+F meals, and would love to know if that's been proven to be outdated or simply a waste of time.


#14

^^ To my knowledge, it's def true (including the part about Dr Berardi himself)

I will say that P+F still has value for complete beginners who are locked into bread/pasta/rice as the "base" of every plate of food they eat


#15

I can't find it right now, I'll post it later if I can find it.

I've seen some research that indicates that consumption of fats doesn't interfere with glycogen synthesis post workout, but it's late and I don't feel like finding it right now. I'll look tomorrow.

From a practical standpoint, if you're eating at regular intervals, all of that food is going to get mixed up in the gut anyways. If you eat a p+c meal at 12 and at 3 have a p+f meal, your body is still digesting and absorbing the carb meal while it begins digesting and absorbing the fat meal. Since larger meals take many hours to digest, this holds true even for people eating with lower frequencies (ie 3 meals/day).

In the end, it doesn't really matter. There are untold thousands of people who have gotten and stayed very lean and healthy while combining carbs and fats. McDonald gives a pretty good explanation for why it's a waste of time on his forum, I'll let you practice your Google-Fu to find that one..."combining carbs and fats in one meal".


#16

It may not be scientific but it can be an easy diet for people to stick to, so if it works for some then it's clearly effective.


#17

I refuse to practice my Google-Fu. I'll wait for the link post.

Your logic does make sense though.


#18

I'd love p+c or p+f is Wrong :smiley:


#19

Stronghold: I mix both all the time but question: carbs and fats (consumed in the same meal or seperate) are still digested at different "speeds", correct? Fats take longer, which is why for any athletic competition its suggested to not consume fats prior because they slow digestion down. Carbs though are quickly absorbed and broken down, hence why we are told to eat them before training and immediately after training given a 30-60min window of recommendation because the body breaks down the carbs faster and shuttles the appropriate products into the muscle rather than storing fat.

I have also heard to lower carb intake closer to bed, some suggesting to not eat carbs 2 hours before bed, I think Thibs suggested that as well, do to causing and insulin spike with no where to go forcing your body to store fat as you sleep because it is unable to use it for fuel. This is wrong?


#20

If everything else is held equal, then it doesn't matter.

If you're eating 50g of carbs at your last meal, then that's 50g that you didn't eat earlier in the day and 200 calories that your body had to get from somewhere else.

If you're eating at a deficit, then those 200 calories will replace 200 calories of fat and glycogen that were burnt earlier, equating to zero. Assuming that it all "went to fat" (unlikely in an individual who is resistance training and dieting), then it amounts to 1/159th of a pound of bodyfat. In order for this to really matter, then the 200 calories of deficit earlier in the day would have had to have come entirely from non-fat sources (glycogen, gluconeogenesis), which, once again, if you're lifting heavy on a regular basis and not doing anything stupid, is highly unlikely.

In order to prevent the above "doomsday scenario", it would be best to avoid inhibiting fat oxidation when it is highest (during the day) and consuming those carbohydrates instead at a time when they are more likely to be partitioned into muscle glycogen (the 12 or so hours after a resistance workout). This would ensure that more of the energy that you expend comes from adipose tissues and more of the energy that you consume "goes to" muscle tissue.

If you're eating at maintenance, then the same holds true as it did in the scenario with the deficit: that energy surplus you created by eating those 200 calories simply negates the energy deficit you created by not eating them earlier in the day. Once again, since we're talking about carbohydrates: whose most significant contribution to fat gain is via inhibition of lypolysis, the likelihood that those 50g of carbohydrates will have a net positive (increase) effect on bodyfat is highly unlikely for a hard training individual.

For our hypothetical trainee, it would be most desirable to consume these carbohydrates within the 12 hours following a resistance workout, since this is the time when carbohydrate consumption has the least effect on fat burning.

In a surplus, then those calories will be either be stored via glycogenesis (glycogen) or DNL (fat). In order for DNL to occur, total-body glycogen stores must already be filled. For our hard training individual, this is again more reason to eat carbohydrates at night (in closer to proximity to the completion of a resistance workout) than earlier in the day.

"x" being total caloric output, "y" being caloric input, and "z" being your body's contribution to energy iput (ie: bodyfat/glycogen burned by the body)

x - y = z

That equation will always be balanced, in the sort term (in this case, a few hours) and long term (the entire day). Fat burning my go up beyond the range dictated by your caloric deficit acutely, but it will fall at another time to compensate and your mean output (or z in the above equation) will match your caloric defict.

Things like the body's ability to continue burning fat in the presence of postexercise carbohydrate intake may seem to fly in the face of this, but remember that in order for this to occur glycogen stores must be at least partially depleted, meaning glycogen has been expended for energy and is a part of the x and z variables above.

This is not to say that there are ways to take advantage of the various metabolic states that the body is presented with throughout the day, and the focus should be first be on ensuring proper energy balance for the desired goal, and THEN on optimizing nutrient timing and partitioning. The point of my above post wasn't by any means meant to claim that eating carbs later in the day is the solution to all body composition woes or a free pass to gorge indiscriminately, but to illustrate the futility and backwardness of the "no carbs at night" rule.