[quote]Tatsu wrote:
The distance between the handles is also a factor to count in. In my old gym I had a dip apparatus where the handles were narrower than in my new gym. No problems there, untill I tried dipping in my new gym… impingment symptoms galore as a result. [/quote]
I know exactly what your talking about, the wider the grip seems to force the shoulders to move at an angle that there not supposed to
[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I see what your saying, but I do weighted dips because they work, not to boost my ego. My ego boosting exercise is and was benchpressing.[/quote]
I’m with you on this one. They are an amazing exercise, unfortunately they come at a price. It sucks to choose between overall shoulder health and a great mass building exercise, but having to make that choice I’d choose shoulder health every time. You can always find another exercise, you can’t say the same for a set of healthy shoulders.[/quote]
Im probably gonna drop the weighted dips, but the withdrawal will be awful…lol
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
The distance between the handles is also a factor to count in. In my old gym I had a dip apparatus where the handles were narrower than in my new gym. No problems there, untill I tried dipping in my new gym… impingment symptoms galore as a result. [/quote]
I know exactly what your talking about, the wider the grip seems to force the shoulders to move at an angle that there not supposed to[/quote]
This is why I dont do dips. They turned roman chairs into dip stations and the handles are a good 3 feet apart. The handles are made of 3-4" pipe as well. Impossible to do it without pain in my wrists and shoulders
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
[quote]Tatsu wrote:
The distance between the handles is also a factor to count in. In my old gym I had a dip apparatus where the handles were narrower than in my new gym. No problems there, untill I tried dipping in my new gym… impingment symptoms galore as a result. [/quote]
I know exactly what your talking about, the wider the grip seems to force the shoulders to move at an angle that there not supposed to[/quote]
Yups, and as Bonez says… wrist pain is unavoidable for me with those crappy romain chair/dipping stations. Especially when my wrist mobility right is more fucked than left because of a traumatic injury, FOOSH (fall on outstreched hand).
I have messed up shoulders, and I find that the ROM is never a big factor with dips. For me, the amount of added weight makes a huge difference. When I stopped doing sets of <10 reps, my shoulders felt much healthier. I’ve been sticking to BW only as of late, and while I’m not a huge fan of doing 20 reps of anything, my shoulders thank me for it.
Also, I personally try to make most pressing exercises more difficult than they need to be, so that I don’t have to load them as heavily. Doing slow negatives definitely helps in that regard.
Oh yeah, and my gym has three different dip stations. I can only use ONE pain-free. I spent a lot of time trying to use handles that didn’t suit me anatomically, and it is just not worth it.
[quote]bcingu wrote:
I have messed up shoulders, and I find that the ROM is never a big factor with dips. For me, the amount of added weight makes a huge difference. When I stopped doing sets of <10 reps, my shoulders felt much healthier. I’ve been sticking to BW only as of late, and while I’m not a huge fan of doing 20 reps of anything, my shoulders thank me for it.
Also, I personally try to make most pressing exercises more difficult than they need to be, so that I don’t have to load them as heavily. Doing slow negatives definitely helps in that regard.
Oh yeah, and my gym has three different dip stations. I can only use ONE pain-free. I spent a lot of time trying to use handles that didn’t suit me anatomically, and it is just not worth it.[/quote]
Funny… I have perfectly healthy shoulders from what I and my doc can tell, and the weight I use makes no difference, but the ROM does.
This is despite me having rather flexible shoulders, too…
But yes, some dip stations or machines allow me to do dips without any discomfort, others do not.
Every time I’ve tried dips in the past ~8 months, I got really bad pain and popping in my sternum, that lasted for a few weeks. I think that the handles being too far apart is to blame. Never bothered my shoulders though.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
This is why I dont do dips. They turned roman chairs into dip stations and the handles are a good 3 feet apart. The handles are made of 3-4" pipe as well. Impossible to do it without pain in my wrists and shoulders [/quote]
You don"t like the fatter grips on the handles? I feel like i get a lot of wrist pain on dip machines/stations that don’t have the big grips. I think its due to the fact that when I was going through training in the navy, all the pull up and dip bars were 3-4 inch thinck where you were doing the thumb over grip and I loved em. thin bars hurt my wrists.
…that 3 foot apart handles thing is bullshit though.
.greg.
I can do the dip machines (seated weight push down) - full stack and it hits my triceps and lower chest nicely without any pain. However, I can only do <10 full body weight dips at a time. And i find that most of the time, I feel shoulder pain and i never feel the intended muscles working when i do dips with body weight or more weight strapped. I also cannot do upright rows…
My shoulders are healthy however.
I too have been fighting shoulder issues for the last year. Changes I’ve made that made a big difference.
Adjust my dip bars so my feet hit the floor at just above 90, to limit ROM.
Move all pressing movements to dumbells
Change from BB flat bench to DB inclined (30-40) and/or DB floor presses.
Invested in a set of power hooks for dumbells to go heavy (I train alone)
The width of the dip handles also made a big difference.
Anyone try dipping from Rings? It predisposes you to bring all shoulder stabilizers and rotator cuff muscles firing (in a situation where major imbalances/mobility issues around the shoulder joint already exist , fixed station dips only accentuate the problem), also the distance of the ring handles is in control of the individual. Yes it is more trying but worth it as it has a resetting effect.
I’ve never used rings, but I will add that the handles that allow me to dip pain-free also have a fair amount of give to them. This seems to make a difference.
I have been using Christian Thibaudeau’s principle on ROM of not going further than the hands easily go without any weight.
He was speaking of bench presses in the article or post that I read.
But I have been applying it to other exercises, including dips, with good success.
Basically, I first see how high my hands will go just lifting them naturally and easily (no force.) I limit the dips to that point of the ROM.
The only pain I ever feel is between the pecs, but stretching cures this.
[quote]thefederalist wrote:
The only pain I ever feel is between the pecs, but stretching cures this. [/quote]
ummm…is that you in the avatar?
[quote]forbes wrote:
ROM is excessive when you start to feel pain. Otherwise you’re fine.
If any ROM on dips hurt, then simply ditch the exercise.[/quote]
I disagree, sorry.
You may not feel pain for years, whilst using excesive ROM. The pain may only come when it’s too late, i.e. the joint is f**ked from years of excessive ROM.
BBB
It’s hard to say what is the right ROM because it’s different for everyone. I’ve heard a lot of well educated and experienced lifters say you don’t need to even go 90 degrees, as well as some who say you have to go below that.
I try to stay close to 90 degrees myself, but I never go below that because I don’t want to risk it.I think as long as you aren’t going to an extreme ROM and feeling a huge stretch in the delts and you aren’t in pain, you are fine.
I have had impingemnet off and on for years with all kinds of pressing but have no problem with dips. I have a free standing dip station so I can elevate the front of it with a 2x12 which makes it feel more of a natural groove for me. I also notice when watching videos of others do dips that they round their backs where I keep an arch in my back with scaps retracted which really puts the stretch and contraction on my pecs.
[quote]bwhitwell wrote:
I have had impingemnet off and on for years with all kinds of pressing but have no problem with dips. I have a free standing dip station so I can elevate the front of it with a 2x12 which makes it feel more of a natural groove for me. I also notice when watching videos of others do dips that they round their backs where I keep an arch in my back with scaps retracted which really puts the stretch and contraction on my pecs.[/quote]
Great point. Most people don’t even take form into acount and focus only on range of motion. With shoulders pulled back and an arched back, it is a lot less likely that unwanted stress will be placed on the shoulders.
I used to do full ROM dips with no problems, up until I injured my AC in a rugby match - can’t do dips any more, and form on things like bench and incline barbell press has to be super strict. If I try to do dips with my elbows in, my poor shoulder mobility won’t let me get an adequate range to be of any benefit, and if I let my elbows move outwards, well, that would be the end of my shoulder quite frankly.
Not heard of many AC injuries directly from doing dips. Saying that, it’s always possible that doing dips weakened my AC joint, making it more susceptible to injury in collisions.
Can’t honestly say I’ve seen a lot of AC injuries directly from doing dips though, as long as form is good.