When is ROM Excessive on Dips?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
1
  1. Doing Dips on a Shoulder with Acromioclavicular Joint Problems

"Traditionally, the acromioclavicular (AC) joint has been associated with traumatic shoulder separations, but one issue that has become more and more prominent over the past 25 years has been atraumatic osteolysis of the distal clavicle.

Interestingly, this increase parallels the increase in popularity of resistance training during that same time period. In 1982, Cahill noted that of 46 cases observed in a particular study, 45 of the subjects participated in weight training.(6)

We know that weight training is incredibly valuable, and that full ROM is crucial for long-term success. However, if you’ve got osteolysis, or are on your way â?? or if you have a history of traumatic AC joint problems â?? pressing exercises that pull you into full extension can be a problem."

I wonder, at what point would ROM on dips start causing degeneration of the joint/be dangerous? Only when you do them to full extension?
Since I guess that study didn’t handpick only subjects with AC joint pathologies, which would mean that dips can be “bad” if some measures aren’t taken (i.e. just like for benching you must have your scapulas tucked and depressed, the elbows should be tucked etc)

2

ROM is excessive when you start to feel pain. Otherwise you’re fine.

If any ROM on dips hurt, then simply ditch the exercise.

3

I used to blast out dips, full ROM, and they were one of the best exercises for my chest and tri’s.

I have had to give them up completely though because of shoulder pain, probably due to the fact that I didn’t regulate my ROM when I was cranking them out.

I’d say stop at a little over 90 degrees, but it’s pretty much up to you. Some people can dip all their life and not have problems, but in most cases I think it will eventually cause some shoulder discomfort unless you adhere to strict form.

4

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I used to blast out dips, full ROM, and they were one of the best exercises for my chest and tri’s.

I have had to give them up completely though because of shoulder pain, probably due to the fact that I didn’t regulate my ROM when I was cranking them out.

I’d say stop at a little over 90 degrees, but it’s pretty much up to you. Some people can dip all their life and not have problems, but in most cases I think it will eventually cause some shoulder discomfort unless you adhere to strict form.[/quote]

This is why Id hate to give them up, to me there is nothing better for my tris and chest espescially when weighted. But I am getting an impingement type pain, dips seems to exascerbate the pain, I dont feel the same effect if I dont do full ROM…ditching them may be what I have to do but I certainly dont want to.

5

I have been experimenting with this lately. I had really been wanting to add dips back into my training but I have a lot of shoulder issues. A proper mobility warm up has helped some but the problem still exists.

I have found that I can go to slightly above 90deg without issue; anything lower than that and it feels like my arm is being ripped off.

I think a previous poster is correct in saying that going to just about 90deg OR till right above that painful range should be enough.

6

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I used to blast out dips, full ROM, and they were one of the best exercises for my chest and tri’s.

I have had to give them up completely though because of shoulder pain, probably due to the fact that I didn’t regulate my ROM when I was cranking them out.

I’d say stop at a little over 90 degrees, but it’s pretty much up to you. Some people can dip all their life and not have problems, but in most cases I think it will eventually cause some shoulder discomfort unless you adhere to strict form.[/quote]

This is why Id hate to give them up, to me there is nothing better for my tris and chest espescially when weighted. But I am getting an impingement type pain, dips seems to exascerbate the pain, I dont feel the same effect if I dont do full ROM…ditching them may be what I have to do but I certainly dont want to.[/quote]

Honestly, I’d say give 'em up now. Shoulders are fragile, and you want to be extra careful with them. You may feel invincible now (as do I), but you have to realize that the set of shoulders you have now is with you for life, so keeping them pain free at all times is a must.

There are plenty of other ways to work your chest and tri’s.

7

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I used to blast out dips, full ROM, and they were one of the best exercises for my chest and tri’s.

I have had to give them up completely though because of shoulder pain, probably due to the fact that I didn’t regulate my ROM when I was cranking them out.

I’d say stop at a little over 90 degrees, but it’s pretty much up to you. Some people can dip all their life and not have problems, but in most cases I think it will eventually cause some shoulder discomfort unless you adhere to strict form.[/quote]

This is why Id hate to give them up, to me there is nothing better for my tris and chest espescially when weighted. But I am getting an impingement type pain, dips seems to exascerbate the pain, I dont feel the same effect if I dont do full ROM…ditching them may be what I have to do but I certainly dont want to.[/quote]

Honestly, I’d say give 'em up now. Shoulders are fragile, and you want to be extra careful with them. You may feel invincible now (as do I), but you have to realize that the set of shoulders you have now is with you for life, so keeping them pain free at all times is a must.

There are plenty of other ways to work your chest and tri’s.[/quote]

You are %100 right…now will I be smart and heed your advice? Im not sure, I can be so stubborn.

8

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I used to blast out dips, full ROM, and they were one of the best exercises for my chest and tri’s.

I have had to give them up completely though because of shoulder pain, probably due to the fact that I didn’t regulate my ROM when I was cranking them out.

I’d say stop at a little over 90 degrees, but it’s pretty much up to you. Some people can dip all their life and not have problems, but in most cases I think it will eventually cause some shoulder discomfort unless you adhere to strict form.[/quote]

This is why Id hate to give them up, to me there is nothing better for my tris and chest espescially when weighted. But I am getting an impingement type pain, dips seems to exascerbate the pain, I dont feel the same effect if I dont do full ROM…ditching them may be what I have to do but I certainly dont want to.[/quote]

Honestly, I’d say give 'em up now. Shoulders are fragile, and you want to be extra careful with them. You may feel invincible now (as do I), but you have to realize that the set of shoulders you have now is with you for life, so keeping them pain free at all times is a must.

There are plenty of other ways to work your chest and tri’s.[/quote]

You are %100 right…now will I be smart and heed your advice? Im not sure, I can be so stubborn.[/quote]

x2- I’m stubborn as hell too. I tend to have to really mess up before I learn

Even though I don’t attribute my shoulder issues to dips it makes a lot of sense. Right now I am seeing if backing off of all the pressing work will help. I was doing OH, bench work, and an event day with a log or axle press. That is just TOO much shoulder activation. I’ll try my new setup for a few weeks and gauge from there…

9

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I used to blast out dips, full ROM, and they were one of the best exercises for my chest and tri’s.

I have had to give them up completely though because of shoulder pain, probably due to the fact that I didn’t regulate my ROM when I was cranking them out.

I’d say stop at a little over 90 degrees, but it’s pretty much up to you. Some people can dip all their life and not have problems, but in most cases I think it will eventually cause some shoulder discomfort unless you adhere to strict form.[/quote]

This is why Id hate to give them up, to me there is nothing better for my tris and chest espescially when weighted. But I am getting an impingement type pain, dips seems to exascerbate the pain, I dont feel the same effect if I dont do full ROM…ditching them may be what I have to do but I certainly dont want to.[/quote]

Honestly, I’d say give 'em up now. Shoulders are fragile, and you want to be extra careful with them. You may feel invincible now (as do I), but you have to realize that the set of shoulders you have now is with you for life, so keeping them pain free at all times is a must.

There are plenty of other ways to work your chest and tri’s.[/quote]

You are %100 right…now will I be smart and heed your advice? Im not sure, I can be so stubborn.[/quote]

It’s hard to do, the first couple months a gave 'em up I’d always give in after a couple weeks, but then the soreness would come right back.

Luckily I work in the OR, and specialize in orthopedics, so I get to see a lot of people and their messed up shoulders. Those cases, along with the general anatomy of the shoulder and it’s fragility help to keep me away from tempting exercises (upright rows, dips), and force me to focus on prehab and maintaining the smaller, more important (less visible) components of my shoulders.

In short I have realized that shoulders are involved in pretty much every aspect of bodybuilding, be it directly or indirectly, and I want to be able to lift as long as possible, so taking care of 'em far outweighs the potential of a single tempting exercise.

10

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I used to blast out dips, full ROM, and they were one of the best exercises for my chest and tri’s.

I have had to give them up completely though because of shoulder pain, probably due to the fact that I didn’t regulate my ROM when I was cranking them out.

I’d say stop at a little over 90 degrees, but it’s pretty much up to you. Some people can dip all their life and not have problems, but in most cases I think it will eventually cause some shoulder discomfort unless you adhere to strict form.[/quote]

This is why Id hate to give them up, to me there is nothing better for my tris and chest espescially when weighted. But I am getting an impingement type pain, dips seems to exascerbate the pain, I dont feel the same effect if I dont do full ROM…ditching them may be what I have to do but I certainly dont want to.[/quote]

Honestly, I’d say give 'em up now. Shoulders are fragile, and you want to be extra careful with them. You may feel invincible now (as do I), but you have to realize that the set of shoulders you have now is with you for life, so keeping them pain free at all times is a must.

There are plenty of other ways to work your chest and tri’s.[/quote]

You are %100 right…now will I be smart and heed your advice? Im not sure, I can be so stubborn.[/quote]

x2- I’m stubborn as hell too. I tend to have to really mess up before I learn

Even though I don’t attribute my shoulder issues to dips it makes a lot of sense. Right now I am seeing if backing off of all the pressing work will help. I was doing OH, bench work, and an event day with a log or axle press. That is just TOO much shoulder activation. I’ll try my new setup for a few weeks and gauge from there…[/quote]

What do you guys plan on doing / or are doing in place of the pressing and dips. I did some heavy db inclines yesterday, knowing full well that all pressing movements are causing pain, I still fought through it, I believe I too must cut out pressing, but as stupid as it sounds (and I know its stupid) Im more afraid of the loss of strength I will have than the actual damage. I know it is a really warped set of priorities but I think you guys know what I mean

11

That kind of mindset is understandable, but you have to think long term and overall health of your joints/body. For your tri’s, your probably going to have to do a lot more iso exercises, or as much close grip stuff as you can.

I think pressing is fine, as long as you maintain good form and good warmup/prehab routines. I have not had any pain with presses, but I have also made sure to maintain strict form. I do avoid flat bench, but utilize medium incline and large incline bench, as well as shoulder presses.

12

I have also found that doing a pulling motion in the same plane of movement super setted first (something like kroc rows) has helped mine out tremendously…

13

Yeah the flat bench is probably out of the question for good. I would still like to hold onto Incline and Declines, I always felt declines hit my pecs the best, I seem to incorporate my shoulders less. Up until recently I was doing DB declines exclusively then switched to HS, because of the pain in my shoulders

14

[quote]Alpha wrote:
I have also found that doing a pulling motion in the same plane of movement super setted first (something like kroc rows) has helped mine out tremendously… [/quote]

This is true, I like using a wide grip lat pulldown also.

Have you tried the broomstick stretch?

15

[quote]trav123456 wrote:

[quote]Alpha wrote:
I have also found that doing a pulling motion in the same plane of movement super setted first (something like kroc rows) has helped mine out tremendously… [/quote]

This is true, I like using a wide grip lat pulldown also.

Have you tried the broomstick stretch?[/quote]

Broomstick stretch is a must on any upper body day, hell, do it any day your in the gym.

16

I CAN’T avoid pressing. I compete in strongman so it’s a necessity for me. I just happen to browse all the forums here and this caught my eye.

In the past 2-3 weeks I have cut out regular flat bench completely, opting for pin presses, dips, incline work, HS machines, and OH work as well as reducing my pressing days to 1 events. I have also always made an effort to do face pulls and the like from my PL days but it never really occurred to me to start using more weight on them (still keeping reps in 12 range), so hopefully that will help out soon.

That said, I am notoriously bad about keeping my scaps retracted and most of this pain arose from a CG pin press session. I find I get way out of the groove when trying to get the bar off the pins for that first rep. It’s a work in progress.

The broomstick stretch is amazing as well as shoulder dislocates.

17

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]WestCoast7 wrote:
I used to blast out dips, full ROM, and they were one of the best exercises for my chest and tri’s.

I have had to give them up completely though because of shoulder pain, probably due to the fact that I didn’t regulate my ROM when I was cranking them out.

I’d say stop at a little over 90 degrees, but it’s pretty much up to you. Some people can dip all their life and not have problems, but in most cases I think it will eventually cause some shoulder discomfort unless you adhere to strict form.[/quote]

This is why Id hate to give them up, to me there is nothing better for my tris and chest espescially when weighted. But I am getting an impingement type pain, dips seems to exascerbate the pain, I dont feel the same effect if I dont do full ROM…ditching them may be what I have to do but I certainly dont want to.[/quote]

Honestly, I’d say give 'em up now. Shoulders are fragile, and you want to be extra careful with them. You may feel invincible now (as do I), but you have to realize that the set of shoulders you have now is with you for life, so keeping them pain free at all times is a must.

There are plenty of other ways to work your chest and tri’s.[/quote]

You are %100 right…now will I be smart and heed your advice? Im not sure, I can be so stubborn.[/quote]

It’s hard to do, the first couple months a gave 'em up I’d always give in after a couple weeks, but then the soreness would come right back.

Luckily I work in the OR, and specialize in orthopedics, so I get to see a lot of people and their messed up shoulders. Those cases, along with the general anatomy of the shoulder and it’s fragility help to keep me away from tempting exercises (upright rows, dips), and force me to focus on prehab and maintaining the smaller, more important (less visible) components of my shoulders.

In short I have realized that shoulders are involved in pretty much every aspect of bodybuilding, be it directly or indirectly, and I want to be able to lift as long as possible, so taking care of 'em far outweighs the potential of a single tempting exercise.[/quote]

Good post, knees and shoulders, seem to be the first things getting messed up on people young and old. As for dips, I only do them from time to time and it’s an exercise one should really check their egos (weighted dips I refer to, as for Alpha he’s something else with them!!!) with or potential risks increase greatly.

18

I see what your saying, but I do weighted dips because they work, not to boost my ego. My ego boosting exercise is and was benchpressing.

19

[quote]MattyXL wrote:
I see what your saying, but I do weighted dips because they work, not to boost my ego. My ego boosting exercise is and was benchpressing.[/quote]

I’m with you on this one. They are an amazing exercise, unfortunately they come at a price. It sucks to choose between overall shoulder health and a great mass building exercise, but having to make that choice I’d choose shoulder health every time. You can always find another exercise, you can’t say the same for a set of healthy shoulders.

20

The distance between the handles is also a factor to count in. In my old gym I had a dip apparatus where the handles were narrower than in my new gym. No problems there, untill I tried dipping in my new gym… impingment symptoms galore as a result.