[quote]tveddy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
If someone says “my priority is to stay lean and I’ll gain what I can” fine, that’s a different story
all too often thats not the case.[/quote]
I’m not sure I’m following you.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
tveddy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
If someone says “my priority is to stay lean and I’ll gain what I can” fine, that’s a different story
all too often thats not the case.
I’m not sure I’m following you.[/quote]
It seems like usually when people should say that, instead what they tell me is that they eat a lot and they still can’t gain weight. Then they say something about their fast metabolism and how its why they can’t make any gains… Point is that I always hear a lot of excuses
[quote]Horazio wrote:
This guys says that unless you’re an elite athlete you still can put on some mass while loosing fat :
Gain Muscle Lose Weight - YouTube [/quote]
The youtube guy is right.
So many beginners swallow the “bulk-bug”. While often effective, it just doesn’t pay off, unless you plan to impersonate Santa or love a beer gut.
Hypertrophy can be achieved even when starving (not recommended!), so if someone is a lean 9-13%, why should he bulk when he has got modest aims, like wanting to look like Ryan Reynolds?
There are some guys I know who have build horrific physiques, through consistently training for years. It seems to me like so many guys want to take the shortcut nowadays. Just be happy to add a few pounds a year consistently without being injured, with a few extra pounds in the initial year, that’s it.
The picure is a BB.com guy showing of his bulk success, someone here on T-Nation posted perhaps a month earlier.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
It seems to me like so many guys want to take the shortcut nowadays. Just be happy to add a few pounds a year consistently without being injured, with a few extra pounds in the initial year, that’s it.
[/quote]
You are right I want the “shortcut” in terms of muscle gains. If I’m lean enough to stay happy why should I hold back my gains and be happy with a few lbs a year? I want as much muscle as my body will let me have so I can become as massive as my genetics will allow in four years instead of ten.
Different goals for different people of course, if someone wants a lean 180 look or whatever it is then going slow is fine for them. If I want a 240 lean look if I try to gain slow it’ll take me a decade to put on 35 more lbs.
But agreed on the bulking and cutting as stupid terms for most.
[quote]tveddy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
tveddy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
If someone says “my priority is to stay lean and I’ll gain what I can” fine, that’s a different story
all too often thats not the case.
I’m not sure I’m following you.
It seems like usually when people should say that, instead what they tell me is that they eat a lot and they still can’t gain weight. Then they say something about their fast metabolism and how its why they can’t make any gains… Point is that I always hear a lot of excuses[/quote]
Or the ubiquitous hardgainer self labeling technique.
If this guy’s asking “how much fat should I gain before slowing down on the food?” the answer is that’s the wrong mindset to start with in my opinion. If you’re looking to build muscle then eat and train to build muscle. How much fat you may or may not gain is a side effect. When you’re getting bigger (and stronger) at a rate that pleases you that’s how much fat you should gain. Attaching numbers to it is an artificial distraction.
If he’s asking “how long do I do this?” the answer is until you’re happy with amount of size you’ve gained.
If you cannot bare the thought of getting any softer that’s fine, but it will take much longer to gain and you may not ever get as big as you could have.
Fat new guys, whatever that exactly means, but new guys who are clearly overweight shouldn’t worry about cutting, bulking, gaining blah blah blah. Just eat a reasonable amount of balanced quality food over six meals a day and work a basic program probably with some cardio and miraculous things will happen to them. Once they get a grip on where they are more specific goals will make sense.
Im curious as to how much any of the people who are saying “stop bulking when you cant see your abs” and “10-12%” weigh. Not trying to say anything, just curious.
Tiribulus is one of the few posters left here I can usually agree with everytime I read his posts. Well put as usual.
[quote]bmitch wrote:
id say the bulk should end when you can’t see your abs anymore[/quote]
… or maybe your feet. 
Bulking sucks. I’ve done it several times and simply gotten fat. Unless you are using AA’s, bulking is not worth it. The best thing to do is cycle your calories. I cycle my calories daily (high calories and carbs early, lower/moderate calories and fats later), and also biweekly (high calories 2 weeks, lower calories 2 weeks).
But I basically follow my instinct. If I am itching to gain some mass and strength, I will jack up the calories, and I will rapidly start to gain mass and strength. In one week, I will sometimes break old records by as much as 15 lbs on every lift, or by 4-5 reps on the same weight on every lift.
But if I see I am losing too much definition, I will cut the calories. Sometimes the weight I work with drops slightly, but overall I am gaining muscle and strength and looking good.
Also, an advantage of doing this is that your body rebounds after a caloric deficit for a while. That means you will be even more anabolic in your bulking periods than you would normally be during the middle of a long bulk.
And you will get the “high mood” that comes with the beginning of the bulk once a month for about a week at a time.
Overall, this is working for me, but I’ve only been back into the iron game for 2-3 months, so we will see whether it keeps working.
thanks for the input, guys. I’ve decided… that the bulk will not, no, cannot be stopped! I disagree with the 10-12% rule. Despite any studies that have been done, it’s just much easier to put on mass once I’m a little higher. Then I don’t have to be all anal about the fact that my abs are gone, which leaves me open to bulk to my hearts content. I’m probably up around 15-16% right now, and I’ve been there for about a month now.
I started eating AD style and it’s been ridiculously easy to get in 5000+ cals a day for cheap and without any noticeable fat gain. The only downside I’ve noticed so far is that my cardiovascular health has diminished since I started; chock that up to my daily bacon and sausage intake, I guess.
[quote]Epimetheus wrote:
thanks for the input, guys. I’ve decided… that the bulk will not, no, cannot be stopped! I disagree with the 10-12% rule. Despite any studies that have been done, it’s just much easier to put on mass once I’m a little higher. Then I don’t have to be all anal about the fact that my abs are gone, which leaves me open to bulk to my hearts content. I’m probably up around 15-16% right now, and I’ve been there for about a month now.
I started eating AD style and it’s been ridiculously easy to get in 5000+ cals a day for cheap and without any noticeable fat gain. The only downside I’ve noticed so far is that my cardiovascular health has diminished since I started; chock that up to my daily bacon and sausage intake, I guess.[/quote]
What do you mean about your cardio vascular health diminishing?
I feel myself having to breath slightly harder than normal recently. Now that I think about it, would the AD be what’s causing this? Perhaps it’s just the fact that I feel noticeably heavier than when I began. I could probably stand to cut down now, but I just don’t feel like I’d be happy with my size if I did.
I’d say it’s individual, and comes down to what your bodytype is and how you handle food, etc.
If you are extremely ectomorphic/high metabolism and super lean to begin, bulking probably is good since you just need a shitload of calories to gain anything and you can worry less about eating clean.
However, if you are endomorphic eating a ton more doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to gain more muscle faster. I will also say if you’re endo, you need to be more dilligent about your food choices.
In fact, if you’re already eating a caloric surplus, eating more on top of that won’t necessarily make muscle gains come faster. I do agree you need to be in a surplus thhough.
If you’re a mesomorph it probably doesn’t matter what you eat. You will stay pretty lean and gain easily. There are several guys in my gym like this, that eat jack in the box three times a day, are very large and still lean.
In short, I would say bulking is not a one size fits all approach.
[quote]Epimetheus wrote:
I feel myself having to breath slightly harder than normal recently. [/quote]
how old are you?
are you retaining water?
you might want to see a doctor.
The bulk ends when your resting metabolic rate (as a product of your hulking mass) exceeds the maximum daily caloric consumption possible by a human being.
In my opinion, when your relaxed gut sticks out further than your relaxed chest.
[quote]Epimetheus wrote:
I feel myself having to breath slightly harder than normal recently. Now that I think about it, would the AD be what’s causing this? Perhaps it’s just the fact that I feel noticeably heavier than when I began. I could probably stand to cut down now, but I just don’t feel like I’d be happy with my size if I did. [/quote]
I really don’t think it’s a result of being on the AD. You most likely just let that end of it go. However if you have gained enough fat to noticeably hamper your aerobic capacity and that’s the cause you may want to take some steps to not let that get out of hand.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Epimetheus wrote:
I feel myself having to breath slightly harder than normal recently. Now that I think about it, would the AD be what’s causing this? Perhaps it’s just the fact that I feel noticeably heavier than when I began. I could probably stand to cut down now, but I just don’t feel like I’d be happy with my size if I did.
I really don’t think it’s a result of being on the AD. You most likely just let that end of it go. However if you have gained enough fat to noticeably hamper your aerobic capacity and that’s the cause you may want to take some steps to not let that get out of hand.[/quote]
Just a question, Epi, but do you do cardio?
My guess would be that the reason you have trouble breathing is from having a full stomach. 5000 Calories/day will do that.
Ive been doing a bulk for about two years (with one small cut between that time). In this time period I have went from 170 to 242, down to 215, now currently at 237. At 242 I could barely see my abs, but since that intermediate cut I have a decent set of abs showing through. I think bulking is alright as long as you keep the sugars low and keep your carbs in check. Bulking is not a reason to eat everything in sight, as it seems some people have mistaken it for that.
Bulking will also be different for each individual, I was very lean before I started bulking. This means I could afford a more lenient diet than someone who was not as lean.