T Nation

When Did You First Cut?


#1

Was is after a certain milestone was reached or simply when you decided you had to lose some fat ?


#2

Still haven’t.

EDIT: I take that back. I cut weight for a few powerlifting comps from 2011-2012, but I haven’t really done anything that I would consider “a cut”. At most, I’ve just lost some weight.


#3

The first time was because I read an article saying it’s easier to pack on muscle when at a lower body fat percentage. I thought it wouldn’t hurt to cut down before a bulk and I wanted abs. Lost 8 lbs of mostly fat and gained 12 lbs of mostly muscle in 5-6 months.


#4

One day I looked in the mirror and wanted to cry. Contacted a coach the next day and havent looked back yet.


#5

I’m a permabulker.


#6

[quote]Reed wrote:
One day I looked in the mirror and wanted to cry. Contacted a coach the next day and havent looked back yet.[/quote]

This is how winners react.

See a problem, solve a problem, don’t look back.


#7

So it’s easier to gain muscle at lower body fat ?


#8

[quote]Theorangebanana wrote:
So it’s easier to gain muscle at lower body fat ?
[/quote]

I don’t know - I read about it but don’t remember seeing the studies on it. I wanted to lean out and I added that to the list of reasons to move forward with it. I think the three factors of getting adequate rest, creating a demand for muscle through consistent, heavy lifting and feeding your body what it needs is more important than the body fat percentage. I think that a high body fat percentage only needs to be a major concern if it causes health problems.

It really depends on your goals.


#9

[quote]Theorangebanana wrote:
So it’s easier to gain muscle at lower body fat ?
[/quote]

I’ve never been fat, but I can assure you that staying lean year-round and gaining muscle can go hand in hand. I see no reason to ever get fat.


#10

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]Theorangebanana wrote:
So it’s easier to gain muscle at lower body fat ?
[/quote]

I’ve never been fat, but I can assure you that staying lean year-round and gaining muscle can go hand in hand. I see no reason to ever get fat.[/quote]

When you say staying lean , you mean not bulking or cutting right ?


#11

I really feel like the terms “bulking” and “cutting” are far more destructive than they are beneficial.

What specifically do you mean when you use these terms?


#12

Bulking … Gaining additional mass in order to allow muscles to grow more effectively

Cutting … Removal of mass to expose developed muscles more

That’s how I know them


#13

[quote]Theorangebanana wrote:
Bulking … Gaining additional mass in order to allow muscles to grow more effectively

Cutting … Removal of mass to expose developed muscles more

That’s how I know them [/quote]

What “mass” exactly? In your definition of bulking, you’re gaining some sort of mass that makes muscles grow more effectively. Why not just gain the muscle instead?

EDIT: My intent with these questions isn’t to be a jerk, just to remove some mysticism from the terms here. We’re really just talking about gaining weight and losing weight.


#14

Well I suppose because you need nutrients and food in order to gain muscle , in fairness it hasn’t occurred to me until now that you can directly gain muscle , I assume then that you use the excess food to directly improve muscles ?

So I suppose bulking is to help people who don’t eat enough cope with muscle repair and growth.

Don’t worry about being a jerk , for me it’s all about knowledge and getting better , which you can only do through being wrong.

As a result of this I’m now thinking why I am eating more than normal …


#15

[quote]Theorangebanana wrote:
Well I suppose because you need nutrients and food in order to gain muscle , in fairness it hasn’t occurred to me until now that you can directly gain muscle , I assume then that you use the excess food to directly improve muscles ?

So I suppose bulking is to help people who don’t eat enough cope with muscle repair and growth.

Don’t worry about being a jerk , for me it’s all about knowledge and getting better , which you can only do through being wrong.

As a result of this I’m now thinking why I am eating more than normal …[/quote]

you’re really confused on some stuff. If you really want advice that’s specific to YOU, post a picture. Otherwise it’s hard to speaking in any terms other than generalities. If you want to gain MUSCLE, you still have to eat enough to support muscle growth. Muscle has weight to it. And the more muscle you have, the more calories it will take to sustain, and grow it.

The whole point about not bulking and cutting is that people tend to get EXCESSIVELY fat when they do this. What I suggested is that I can continue to grow without getting so fat that you can’t see my abs. I’ve never been more than about a 31" waist size, at any point.

When I started lifting weights, I weighed about 125 lbs, and was the same height I am now. But now I weigh about 195. I was able to add 70 lbs to my frame, without ever losing my abs. It’s not easy. It takes time. But it can be done.


#16

[quote]lift206 wrote:

[quote]Theorangebanana wrote:
So it’s easier to gain muscle at lower body fat ?
[/quote]

I don’t know - I read about it but don’t remember seeing the studies on it. I wanted to lean out and I added that to the list of reasons to move forward with it. I think the three factors of getting adequate rest, creating a demand for muscle through consistent, heavy lifting and feeding your body what it needs is more important than the body fat percentage. I think that a high body fat percentage only needs to be a major concern if it causes health problems.

It really depends on your goals.[/quote]

Dan John mentions this offhandedly toward the end of his “Mass Made Simple” article. He suggests that his anecdotal observation is that people who have recently become very lean (e.g. wrestlers at the end of their competitive season) respond better to “bulking” programs than people who are starting out less lean.

I think he proposes some sort of hormonal “rebound” effect or some such. No studies are mentioned in that particular article, just Mr. John’s not inconsiderable experience helping athletes get big and strong. YMMV.


#17

[quote]Theorangebanana wrote:
Well I suppose because you need nutrients and food in order to gain muscle , in fairness it hasn’t occurred to me until now that you can directly gain muscle , I assume then that you use the excess food to directly improve muscles ?

So I suppose bulking is to help people who don’t eat enough cope with muscle repair and growth.

Don’t worry about being a jerk , for me it’s all about knowledge and getting better , which you can only do through being wrong.

As a result of this I’m now thinking why I am eating more than normal …[/quote]

When gaining and losing weight, you always gain and lose some ratio of muscle and fat (water weight won’t be discussed here). People that focus on rapid weight loss and have no concern for quality of diet tend to lose more muscle when losing weight and gain more fat when gaining weight, compared to a person that focuses on slower weight change and a better quality diet.


#18

My first time losing weight, I was a junior in high school. On the advice of another former fatty, I cut out all the meat, dairy, and as much fat as I could from my diet. I lost about 15 lbs (I was probably like 240 at the time), but I’m sure it was crap.


#19

well being leaner would generally go hand in hand with greater insulin sensitivity, which would, in theory, make it easier to build muscle without getting fat and generally give a 100% increase in sexytime.

I had an epiphany similar to Reed one day. Was leaning over to tie my shoes and my belt disappeared into my gut. As a former skinny little runt I got quite a fright.

Honestly, I don’t think cutting’s anything to be scared of. Muscle and strength loss are mostly a psychological thing, in my mind. Obviously it depends on how much you cut and how quickly you cut it, but everytime I hear someone say they’ve lost muscle on a cut I always just assume they were way fatter than they thought they were.


#20

[quote]Yogi wrote:
well being leaner would generally go hand in hand with greater insulin sensitivity, which would, in theory, make it easier to build muscle without getting fat and generally give a 100% increase in sexytime.

I had an epiphany similar to Reed one day. Was leaning over to tie my shoes and my belt disappeared into my gut. As a former skinny little runt I got quite a fright.

Honestly, I don’t think cutting’s anything to be scared of. Muscle and strength loss are mostly a psychological thing, in my mind. Obviously it depends on how much you cut and how quickly you cut it, but everytime I hear someone say they’ve lost muscle on a cut I always just assume they were way fatter than they thought they were.[/quote]

Haha, yeah it gave me a better idea of how much muscle I actually had. Doing my first big weight loss and weight gain was how I learned that it’s easier to lose fat than gain muscle.